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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    China's Orwellian experiment - engineering social behaviour



    China's Social Credit System seeks to assign citizens scores, engineer social behaviour

    Chinese authorities claim they have banned more than 7 million people deemed "untrustworthy" from
    boarding flights, and nearly 3 million others from riding on high-speed trains, according to a report by
    the country's National Development and Reform Commission.


    Key points:
    • Various pilot projects have been launched throughout China ahead of 2020
    • Chinese authorities use new advanced technologies to crackdown on crime
    • Beijing could engineer society if it combines technology with its credit system

    The announcements offer a glimpse into Beijing's ambitious attempt to create a Social Credit System (SCS)
    by 2020 — that is, a proposed national system designed to value and engineer better individual behaviour by
    establishing the scores of 1.4 billion citizens and "awarding the trustworthy" and "punishing the disobedient".



    As the national system is still being fully realised, dozens of pilot social credit systems have already been tested by
    local governments at provincial and city levels.

    For example, Suzhou, a city in eastern China, uses a point system where every resident is rated on a scale
    between 0 and 200 points — every resident starts from the baseline of 100 points.

    One can earn bonus points for benevolent acts and lose points for disobeying laws, regulations, and social norms.


    It's quite complex and the full story is here

    ---

    If the Chinese Government manages to amalgamate the regional pilot projects and the immense amounts of data
    by 2020, it will be able to exert absolute social and political control and "pre-emptively shape how people behave.


    ^ Fu*k that shite


    I wonder how it will work for non-citizens?


    “Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago”

    .

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    I wonder how it will work for non-citizens?
    I doubt it will apply to non-citizens. Glad I'll be out of here by 2020 though. What a nightmare this black mirror system.... I've always said I feel sorry for the Chinese people and have had deep discussions with a few of them about what they go through already. It seems they are already treated badly on many fronts.

    If they have more than one child that is a different sex from the first child... they have to pay money to the government. People that are not from Shanghai or Beijing, but who moved there for work (Hundreds of thousands of people), have to pay more tax and are not allowed to send their children to public schools. The nightmare goes on.. there are two tiers, and if you are not in the upper tier then you have to pay more to the government every year.

  3. #3
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thailandbound View Post
    People that are not from Shanghai or Beijing, but who moved there for work (tons of thousands of people)
    ...so, just the fatties then...

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...so, just the fatties then...
    Huh?

    Most of the Chinese people I've met or work with are not from Beijing (when I was there), or Shanghai (being here now).

    People come to these cities to find work and these cities have the work that the other smaller cities don't have. I work with people from the provinces all around Shanghai. That is why Shanghai is a ghost town on the national holidays, because they all go back to their home provinces.

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thailandbound View Post
    Huh?
    ......fabulous!...

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    Can you get unbanned if you apolohize?

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    ^No, sadly.. it isn't even a ban.. more like a restriction on things you can or can't do like travelling.

    China's 'social credit' system bans millions from travelling

    It sounds like the plot line from an episode of Black Mirror set in a dystopian future, but China's “social credit” system has already seen over 12 million people slapped with domestic travel bans as punishment for bad behaviour.

    Nine million Chinese have been banned from buying domestic flights, and three million more from buying business class tickets in early trials of the scheme, under which citizens are rated on their compliance with social norms and rules.
    Behaviour that triggered the bans varied from obstructing footpaths with electric bikes to failing to pay fines.

    Zhang Yong, deputy director of the China’s National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), said the trials were taking place across China’s provinces over the next two years.
    The social credit system is based on the government’s phrase “once untrustworthy, always restricted”, and is set to be tested further on the country’s train system from May 1, it was announced last week.

    From that date violating a new set of transport-related offences listed by the NDRC and China’s Supreme Court could result in travel bans. Smoking cigarettes in no smoking areas of trains, riding a train without a correct ticket and selling counterfeit tickets were among the offences listed, that could result in 180 day bans from buying train tickets.

    Mr Zhang said that the NDRC will "increase the intensity of joint rewards and punishments so that dishonest people will be punished and the faithful will be motivated". Those punished under the system will also be shamed online by having their names listed on a train ticket booking website for one week.

    Human rights groups are concerned that as the system is fully implemented around 2020, it may widen its use of apps and citizens’ social media behaviour to rate them, including using information about political allegiances.The Chinese government is watching the progress of Sesame Credit: a private credit system run by Ant Financial, a firm affiliated with Chinese retail giant Alibaba.The system judges users on behaviour such as how long they play video games for and what products they buy online, giving them a ‘score’ that many users share on Chinese social media.

    A spokesperson for Sesame Credit told The Telegraph that it does not share private user information with the government “unless compelled to do so for legal reasons”.Johan Lagerkvist, Chinese internet specialist at the Swedish Institute of International Affairs, told Wired: "It is very ambitious in both depth and scope, including scrutinising individual behaviour and what books people are reading. It's Amazon's consumer tracking with an Orwellian political twist.”
    Last edited by Thailandbound; 03-04-2018 at 05:36 PM.

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    How insane is this?

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    I'll just help TB with a source reference ... Telegraph


    Quote Originally Posted by Thailandbound View Post
    It sounds like the plot line from an episode of Black Mirror set in a dystopian future, but China's “social credit” system has already seen over 12 million people slapped with domestic travel bans as punishment for bad behaviour.

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thailandbound View Post
    How insane is this?
    AGREE ... off the scale for me

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    ^^?
    I put a link... must be low on the reading scale, David.

  13. #13
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thailandbound View Post
    ^^?
    I put a link... must be low on the reading scale, David.
    "Last edited by Thailandbound; Today at 08:36 PM. "

    I consider my reading is just fine, thanks

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thailandbound View Post
    I feel sorry for the Chinese people and have had deep discussions with a few of them


    As if they aren't suffering enough...

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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    off the scale for me
    Yes, so off the scale for me as well.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    I consider my reading is just fine, thanks
    Alright, but I did edit it before I read your link, but anyway thanks for the link that I added later.

    More the issue I want to talk about. I am so glad I am not a Chinese person.

  17. #17
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    I heard a rumour they trialed the system with red cabbages on street level people , tunas of pianos, fish and tuns of beer swilling pizzaboys and ill iterations, the trailas were run in thighland thru a well known Smoochie-coochie intelligence firm Cumridge Analantics, an under cover division of Loyboys Inc
    I used to have a job at a calendar factory.
    I got the sack because
    I took a couple of days off.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thailandbound View Post
    I doubt it will apply to non-citizens.
    Are you suggestion foreigners are above Chinese laws?


    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    I wonder how it will work for non-citizens?
    Yes.

    Foreigners cannot dodge legal sanctions when defaulting on payments and loans in China

    "When Sammy, a French who now lives in Zhongshan, Guangdong Province, heard about the recent case involving founder of technology company LeEco Jia Yueting, who was put on a national blacklist of debt defaulters, prohibiting him from flying, buying train tickets and so on, he felt excited that the blacklist law has taken effect.

    Sammy has been in China for nearly 10 years and is currently the CEO of a trading and consulting company.

    He recalled that seven years ago his ex-boss once had debt with some factories and fled China because he did not want to pay. One year after the incident, his ex-boss came back and had no repercussions for his actions.

    "As debtors have been put under stringent regulations in recent years in China, I think such things will not happen now," said Sammy.On December 19, the first case of a foreigner being punished by a court in Shanghai for failing to pay his employees was heard. The suspect was sentenced to five months of detention and given a fine of 40,000 yuan ($6,139), Xinhua reported in December.

    "The case served to deter any employer - Chinese or foreign - from defaulting on salaries as the Chinese Spring Festival approaches," said Zhang Changming, the procuratorate prosecutor, in the report.

    "Foreigners doing business in China must strictly obey the country's laws and regulations and can never dodge legal sanctions by saying that they do not have a full understanding of the local laws. Any law-breakers should be severely punished and put on a national blacklist," he said."


    Foreigners cannot dodge legal sanctions when defaulting on payments and loans in China - Global Times
    Debt defaulter fined for flying first-class

    "A court in south China's Shenzhen City said Saturday it had fined a debt defaulter 100,000 yuan (15,000 US dollars) for taking a first-class flight.

    Zhang Li, which is not her real name, is on a national blacklist for failing to repay her debts.

    People on the blacklist are, among other proscriptions, forbidden from taking first-class flights and are not able to book tickets with their identity cards.

    However, Zhang was found to have bought a first-class ticket from Lijiang, Yunnan Province, to Shenzhen, on Oct. 13 using her passport.

    On arrival, she was detained by police at Shenzhen airport. "

    Debt defaulter fined for flying first-class - Global Times


    Personal data rights key to managing big data


    "Top Chinese political advisers urged Wednesday a law to regulate collecting, using and trading personal data to secure people's legal rights in a proposal on big data management which was submitted at the ongoing two sessions.

    Raising people's awareness of their rights over personal data will play a key role in improving China's ability to protect and manage big data in the new era, Chinese experts said on Tuesday."

    Personal data rights key to managing big data - Global Times


    You may want to review the Chinese sources prior to accepting the "trustful" western sources.There are I believe many sites which offer searches if one types the few words and the search engine is not selective. The returns vary depending on your current score with he search engine owners.

    The Black Mirror label is utilised to scare the gullible.If you've watched the series you would be scared.

    One could always accept the western standard. Grab every item of data on a person and sell it to the all and sundry. Some companies make more money on selling users data, than from advertising, you know the "real" public impression of how these profits are made.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Are you suggestion foreigners are above Chinese laws?
    Definitely not..However, you are talking about the National Debt blacklist that took effect from 2013.

    The Chinese plan to give citizens a credit score by 2020. The Chinese are looking at everything, not just debt. They are looking at ranking people based on their trustworthiness, not just on people's ability to pay loans.

    I can't see all foreigners fitting into this scheme as many people aren't necessarily living in China for a long time. As well, foreigners aren't always held to the same standards as the Chinese on certain things they may not use. For example, currently they are piloting the program on Alibaba. Not all foreigners use Alibaba for instance.

    This is a more in depth article about what the government will be looking at to assess the social credit score. It fits in line well with the communist society.

    China 'social credit': Beijing sets up huge system - BBC News

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    BBC, the UK government funded regime mouthpiece.


  21. #21
    Neo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thailandbound View Post
    Mr Zhang said that [...] the faithful will be motivated".
    Technology, the new religion.

  22. #22
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    What's new- Black Mirror, Nosedive.


    http://youtu.be/SLmLPcUMci0

  23. #23
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    As this is China it won’t be long before you can increase your social credit rating by making a donation to a government data programmer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thailandbound View Post
    How insane is this?
    That's a social order disrupting, querulant, non-constructive question.

    Three months ban from aquiring flight tickets.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Begbie View Post
    you can increase your social credit rating by making a donation to a government data programmer.
    Somewhat like "lobbying" ones MP in some countries or making a donation" to assist a "friend" retain his/her office and continue your lucrative contracts eh?

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