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  1. #1
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    China's Orwellian Nightmare

    There is an episode of "Black Mirror" in which the protagonist runs around trying to improve her standing on Social Media sites. "Likes" correspond to a social media "rating" that impacts things like flight upgrades and access to services.

    Everyone thought that was Charlie Brooker's futuristic nightmare, but it seems in China it's coming true.


    China’s terrifying “social credit” system isn’t planned to be fully implemented until 2020, but we’re already seeing facets of it being put in place. In May, people who have committed acts of “serious dishonor” will reportedly be unable to travel on trains or flights for up to a year.

    Reuters first reported the policy announced in twonotices posted to China’s National Development and Reform Commission’s website. The social credit system is designed to place various hardships on citizens who’ve committed one of a variety of violations like spreading false information about terrorism or refusing to pay a debt.

    The latest penalty will include temporary bans on travel via airplane or train for people who are accused of infractions like using expired tickets or failing to pay social insurance. From Reuters:

    The move is in line with President’s Xi Jinping’s plan to construct a social credit system based on the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted”, said one of the notices which was signed by eight ministries, including the country’s aviation regulator and the Supreme People’s Court.

    China has flagged plans to roll out a system that will allow government bodies to share information on its citizens’ trustworthiness and issue penalties based on a so-called social credit score.


    According to Marketplace, the system has already been used to deny loans to “discredited” members of society. The program was first formulated in 2013 and the list had grown to include 9.59 million people by the Summer of 2016.

    Travel restrictions have been selectively
    imposed on debtors in the past, but the new policies are expanding the infractions that will get citizens blacklisted.


    Unlike
    Black Mirror’s slick and colorful version of the nightmare rating system, China is just using cold hard data processing backed by a highly centralized government.

    Citizens use a personal ID card number for formal business like booking a flight and informal registrations like signing up for a social media account.


    Forever-President Xi Jinping has consolidated power through a systematic agenda that’s framed as an effort to root out corruption, but also includes targeting his adversaries. The social credit system can be seen as an expansion of the anti-corruption campaign to China’s wider citizenry, and there’s no reason to believe that it won’t be abused in a similar fashion.

    [
    NDRC, NDRC, Reuters]

    https://gizmodo.com/chinese-citizens...d-f-1823845648

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Travel restrictions have been selectively imposed on debtors in the past, but the new policies are expanding the infractions that will get citizens blacklisted.

    Unlike Black Mirror’s slick and colorful version of the nightmare rating system, China is just using cold hard data processing backed by a highly centralized government.
    One wonders when the Chines will copy the west and use ankle bracelets to confine criminals. Should the cold hearted financial scoring companies in the west be accessible by potential employers when deciding candidate suitability or when one requests a loan.

    I think the days of having a friendly relationship with ones bank manager have past.

    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Citizens use a personal ID card number for formal business like booking a flight and informal registrations like signing up for a social media account.
    As opposed to a government controlled credit/debit card or scanned Passport image. Are you aware of any black list utilised by VISA etc. to allow/disallow users a card or limit it's usage?
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    One wonders when the Chines will copy the west and use ankle bracelets to confine criminals. Should the cold hearted financial scoring companies in the west be accessible by potential employers when deciding candidate suitability or when one requests a loan.

    I think the days of having a friendly relationship with ones bank manager have past.



    As opposed to a government controlled credit/debit card or scanned Passport image. Are you aware of any black list utilised by VISA etc. to allow/disallow users a card or limit it's usage?
    No. That is up to the card issuers and they probably use credit rating firms like Experian, etc.

    Did you see the bloke in NZ that took the chip out of his travel card and had it implanted under his skin?

    The ticket inspector thought it was a great idea but he still got fined for travelling without a ticket. Apparently he was trying to "make a statement".

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    No. That is up to the card issuers and they probably use credit rating firms like Experian, etc.

    Did you see the bloke in NZ that took the chip out of his travel card and had it implanted under his skin?

    The ticket inspector thought it was a great idea but he still got fined for travelling without a ticket. Apparently he was trying to "make a statement".
    It was an Australian bloke.

    https://gizmodo.com/australian-bioha...his-1823832689

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barty View Post
    I was close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barty View Post
    Chip of the old cock

    For people from the upper tier of the planet Kiwis Okkers are often mistaken for each other, little do they know there are many very good pale people below Capricorn just waiting to shine or retire to Pattaya and kick the bucket

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Experian
    Not controlled,sure.


  8. #8
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    Verdict scofflaws barred from travel

    China has seen more defaulters barred from buying airline and rail tickets since the beginning of this year, as the restriction for those who do not comply with court rulings is being intensified.


    From January to May, 2.29 million airplane trips and 747,000 rail trips of defaulters were blocked, respectively up 59 percent and 17 percent year-on-year, according to a Supreme People's Court news release on Thursday.


    "We're effectively implementing the requirements of the central leadership to join hands with other authorities to compel defaulters to comply with verdicts by adding inconvenience to their daily lives," said Zhou Qiang, the top court's president.


    So far, the top court has cooperated with more than 10 government departments, including the Ministry of Public Security and the Ministry of Transport, as well as 3,840 banks nationwide to follow defaulters and their properties by sharing their information with each other, he said.


    Thanks to that collaboration, 64 billion yuan ($985 million) in defaulters' bank accounts was frozen between January and May, the news release said. Meanwhile, 6.6 million cars, 12,000 houses and 2.1 billion yuan of defaulters' online accounts were uncovered at the same time, it added.


    "All the numbers increased substantially compared with those in the same period of last year," Zhou said. "For example, the amount of money found in the defaulters' online accounts was almost six times as much as that in the first five months of 2017."


    He said the restrictions on defaulters and the collaboration in searching for their properties have played a large role in enforcing compliance with verdicts. The top court disclosed on June 8 that 2.46 million individuals have complied with court orders from October 2013 to May this year.


    "Our aim is to contribute to improving the social credit system, making litigants unable to escape their debts," he added.


    In addition, Chinese courts have also increased the punishments of those who illegally shirk compliance with verdicts, said Liu Guixiang, a member of the top court's judicial committee.


    Courts nationwide dealt with 7,509 such cases since 2016, he said, and some defaulters were given short-term detentions and some in serious situations were sentenced to prison terms.


    In a case released by the Zhejiang Provincial High People's Court on Thursday, for example, a defaulter who was detained 11 times for noncompliance with a verdict was sentenced to 18 months in prison for the crime of ignoring court rulings.


    "But we have still found that some courts never penalize a defaulter who illegally ignores a court verdict," Liu said, ordering them not to be hesitant in resolving such cases.


    Verdict scofflaws barred from travel - Chinadaily.com.cn

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    2.46m defaulters out of 1,400m citizens are "inconvenienced". Less than 0.2%.

    Seems a trivial story, but a China bashing thread is always fulfilling to some.

    I suspect putting them all in jail would be somewhat more expensive but if, as some countries do, it was privatised it would earn somebody a pretty packet.

  10. #10
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    Another unbiased opinion from Monsieur Oh Jinping. I must admire your unabashed single minded myopia. Not many would be able to sustain it against such overwhelming evidence. I salute you.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    I must admire your unabashed single minded myopia
    I have always been an optimist. Until the leopard changes it's spots let it be free.

    The affected fraudsters are being publicly shamed and denied the privileges a citizen takes for granted. If it changes the fraudsters way of life for the better what is the problem? One answer is jail time/debtors prison another is sleeping in tents under the overpass or begging on streets. Incarceration only costs the citizens more money, vagabonds lead to more crime, expense and costs.

    One wonders what % of the world has had their government demanded, google demanded, facebook demanded, whatsApp demanded ...... personal data stolen and sold to whoever will buy it, without any permission. (It's all buried in the "standard terms and conditions" which everyone clicks without reading them) or badly protect by design to allow access by "hacking".

    If you don't get a birth certificate/NI/SS number at birth try going to school, getting medical treatment, getting a passport, getting a job .........

    I would suggest far greater than the 0.2% of the Chinese citizens, legally convicted for fraud who, rather than pay their debts, try to take holiday flights, trains, buy cars etc. and then their CC gets declined/they can't check-in/they can't pay a hotel bill.

    Oh dear. Tell that to the people they defrauded as defined by Chinese law.

    But the facts, in this simple, targeted, endeavour to educate a very small %, don't fit your prejudices or your cartoon, do they?
    Last edited by OhOh; 26-06-2018 at 11:45 PM.

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