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  1. #276
    Thailand Expat Farangrakthai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    12 million votes for Dem senate seats were ineffective because of gerrymandering.
    i agree with you that gerrymandering is cheating and should not be allowed. gerrymandering is the reason politics is more divisive these days, IMO. the way house districts are carved up these days make one district full of more republican voters and another district full of more democratic voters. this means that moderates (republican or democratic) are not likely to win those districts.

    though, of course at the senate level, gerrymandering isn't an issue because the district for a senate race is the whole state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Popular vote did go to the Dems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    12 million votes for Dem senate seats
    as you probably know, the house was set up to respresent the people more directly and members are up for election every two years.

    the senate was set up for senators to represent their state.

    of course, each state gets 2 senators, no matter, if they are wyoming (usually chooses republicans) or california (usually chooses democrats).

    so, california (for example) having a population 60 times bigger than wyoming (for example) is the reason for this: in 2018 republicans won more senate seats, although if you add up all the senate races, democrats received 12 million more votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    12 million votes for Dem senate seats were ineffective
    Last edited by Farangrakthai; 09-11-2018 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #277
    Thailand Expat Farangrakthai's Avatar
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    after democrats failed to pick up more senate seats than republicans, haven't heard anyone say they want the 17th amendment to the constitution repealed.

    think it's more just a misunderstanding of the constitution by some as it's pretty hard (impossible) to gerrymander a senatorial election when the whole state elects a senator.

    the 17th amendment:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevent...s_Constitution

    The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

    When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

    This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.[1]

  3. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    i agree with you that gerrymandering is cheating and should not be allowed. gerrymandering is the reason politics is more divisive these days, IMO. the way house districts are carved up these days make one district full of more republican voters and another district full of more democratic voters. this means that moderates (republican or democratic) are not likely to win those districts.

    though, of course at the senate level, gerrymandering isn't an issue because the district for a senate race is the whole state.




    as you probably know, the house was set up to respresent the people more directly and members are up for election every two years.

    the senate was set up for senators to represent their state.

    of course, each state gets 2 senators, no matter, if they are wyoming (usually chooses republicans) or california (usually chooses democrats).

    so, california (for example) having a population 60 times bigger than wyoming (for example) is the reason for this: in 2018 republicans won more senate seats, although if you add up all the senate races, democrats received 12 million more votes.
    Why did you feel the need to explain the obvious flaws in the US system? Are you writing a book to explain to children how it all doesn’t work terribly well?

  4. #279
    Thailand Expat Farangrakthai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Why did you feel the need to explain the obvious flaws in the US system?
    when are you going to actually post on the topic of a thread?

    anyways, the reason i brought that up is responding to manaam and what has been seen in some mainstream media as the reason democrats lost.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    As has been posted (with link) the blue wave was there, but the Republican gerrymandering (plus outrageously dumb Republican state laws that allowed a dead guy to be elected) meant the results were still in favour of the reds.
    12 million votes for Dem senate seats were ineffective because of gerrymandering. Popular vote did go to the Dems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    obvious flaws
    b.t.w., it's not a flaw.

    it's just an excuse being used by some in the mainstream media for why the dems didn't pick up more senatorial seats this time.

  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    b.t.w., it's not a flaw.

    it's just an excuse being used by some in the mainstream media for why the dems didn't pick up more senatorial seats this time.
    Of course it's a flaw. If democracy is representation of the people, why would less than 1 million people (Wyoming) have the same senate representation as 60 million people (California)?

  6. #281
    Thailand Expat Farangrakthai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Of course it's a flaw. If democracy is representation of the people, why whould less than 1 million people (Wyoming) have the same senate representation as 60 million people (California)?
    because the system was designed so that a couple big cities like ny and l.a. couldn't control the u.s. government and then other states would feel left out.

    like i mentioned the u.s. house is the chamber that represents the people more directly and wyoming has one rep and california has 53.

    anyways, the dems failure to get more senate seats in 2018 has nothing to do with gerrymandering as you mentioned:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    12 million votes for Dem senate seats were ineffective because of gerrymandering. Popular vote did go to the Dems.

  7. #282
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    legally mandated recounts under way in florida.

    Three recounts for Florida.

    Still looking for ballots in Georgia. I saw an advertisement asking for all people who cast a provisional ballot to call a number in order to see if the vote was counted.

    At least Kemp resigned.



  8. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    anyways, the dems failure to get more senate seats in 2018 has nothing to do with gerrymandering as you mentioned:
    bullshit...check the results in NC. GOP won solely on account of gerrymandering.

  9. #284
    Thailand Expat Farangrakthai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    anyways, the dems failure to get more senate seats in 2018 has nothing to do with gerrymandering as you mentioned:
    bullshit...check the results in NC. GOP won solely on account of gerrymandering.
    bullshit?

    ooh, tough guy.

    anyways, tough guy: the battle ground, as it were, for a u.s. senator is the entire state.

    so, how can you gerrymander the borders of a state?


  10. #285
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    It's about districts. You take a predominantly black district that historically votes dem; redraw it so now has a bunch of white trailer parks and now the district is red. 9th grade social studies....shoulda done your homework instead of watching cartoons after school.

  11. #286
    Thailand Expat Farangrakthai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    It's about districts. You take a predominantly black district that historically votes dem; redraw it so now has a bunch of white trailer parks and now the district is red. 9th grade social studies....shoulda done your homework instead of watching cartoons after school.
    fred: you are missing the main point.

    the u.s. house has districts in a state.

    u.s. senators are elected statewide (not in districts).

    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    anyways, the dems failure to get more senate seats in 2018 has nothing to do with gerrymandering as you mentioned:
    bullshit...check the results in NC. GOP won solely on account of gerrymandering.

  12. #287
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    Bigger picture is a GOP senator representing a state with a super majority vs a GOP senator representing a state with small GOP support.....demographics and numbers matter.

    NC lost it's huge GOP support in spite of intricate gerrymandering......a senator without much partisan support back home is a different animal than one with a large majority showing in polls of all elected offices. Gerrymandering doesn't help get them elected it still plays into the big picture tho.

  13. #288
    Thailand Expat Farangrakthai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    Gerrymandering doesn't help get them elected it still plays into the big picture tho.
    ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    anyways, the dems failure to get more senate seats in 2018 has nothing to do with gerrymandering as you mentioned:
    check the results in NC. GOP won solely on account of gerrymandering.
    i think you're thinking of house races.

  14. #289
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    American democracy is one of the biggest lies going these days. Democracy doesn't have electoral colleges running interference in the process nor is it capable of being manipulated by a tiny minority of extreme power brokers.

  15. #290
    Thailand Expat Farangrakthai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    American democracy is one of the biggest lies going these days. Democracy doesn't have electoral colleges running interference in the process nor is it capable of being manipulated by a tiny minority of extreme power brokers.
    put that on a bumper sticker.


  16. #291
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    Democracy doesn't have electoral colleges running interference in the process nor is it capable of being manipulated by a tiny minority of extreme power brokers.
    The right wing lemmings will never see it as such. They are brainwashed. They are to stupid to realize who their masters are. It is is a small circus. Robert Mercer, Rubert Murdoch etc you have to be an utter tool to not see what these billionaires are trying to do.

    God, Guns, Abortion.

    These dipshits will vote outside of their own best interest every time.

    Every time....

  18. #293
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    Oh I forgot one..

    Immigrants.

  19. #294
    Thailand Expat Farangrakthai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    right wing lemmings
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    to stupid
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    utter tool
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    dipshits
    go to bed, bsnub.

    isn't it 5:25 AM there in seattle?

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    American democracy is one of the biggest lies going these days. Democracy doesn't have electoral colleges running interference in the process nor is it capable of being manipulated by a tiny minority of extreme power brokers.

    Once again, the U.S. government is a Democratic Republic not a democracy.

  21. #296
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    This guys is very interesting. He was running for a house seat in West Virginia in a very red district. He was a paratrooper who served in Iraq and Afghanistan he was a pro gun candidate but other than that he was pro universal healthcare, pro union etc. Gave a fiery concession speech and I do not think this is the last we have herd of him...


  22. #297
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Gave a fiery concession speech
    ...I'm growing weary of fiery...wouldn't mind a well-reasoned and fact-based discussion from either side that doesn't involve Jesus...

  23. #298
    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    This guys is very interesting. He was running for a house seat in West Virginia in a very red district. He was a paratrooper who served in Iraq and Afghanistan he was a pro gun candidate but other than that he was pro universal healthcare, pro union etc. Gave a fiery concession speech and I do not think this is the last we have herd of him...

    Never heard of him, so looked him up. He is indeed a very interesting character.

  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    wouldn't mind a well-reasoned and fact-based discussion from either side
    A little difficult when your are dealing with FaRTopian sensibilities.

  25. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPETER65 View Post
    Once again, the U.S. government is a Democratic Republic not a democracy.
    Semantics.

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