75th Anniversary of the Massed Bombing of Stalingrad

[Klondyke]

Center of Stalingrad after liberation: 'Even the Stones Burned'

75 years ago, Stalingrad, the Soviet industrial city on the Volga River, was subjected to its first aerial bombardment by the Luftwaffe, an event remembered in Russian historiography as one of the largest massed bombings in the history of the Great Patriotic War
https://sputniknews.com/world/201708...h-anniversary/

An example (and a proof) that a massed bombing - nowadays sometimes controlled from a comfortable chair by a joystick - is not enough to win a war...

According to historians, on August 23 alone, between 40,000 and 90,000 people were killed. About 50,000 were injured. A total of 309 city enterprises were destroyed.

Thus, the Germans' main goal for the bombing – to crush the resistance of the Soviet troops defending the city, and the subsequent assault on Stalingrad by land units, failed. Many historians say that the Wehrmacht was not able to take advantage of the results of the Luftwaffe's efforts. As a result, the bombing came to look less like a military operation, and more like an act of terror. The German forces' fierce bombing of civilian transport evacuating the city can be similarly characterized.

The severely wounded city of Stalingrad took its revenge on those who had assailed it in a sustained and unswerving fashion until February 2, 1943, emerging in history as a symbol of the heroic resistance of the Soviet people and the grave of nearly a million German soldiers. A phrase of one of them, written in a diary, became known across the world: "Only one kilometer separates us from the Volga. But we cannot break through to it. We've been fighting for this one kilometer longer than we did for the whole of France, but the Russians stand like blocks of stone."

[Cold Pizza]

According to historians, on August 23 alone, between 40,000 and 90,000 people were killed. About 50,000 were injured. A total of 309 city enterprises were destroyed.

Thus, the Germans' main goal for the bombing – to crush the resistance of the Soviet troops defending the city, and the subsequent assault on Stalingrad by land units, failed. Many historians say that the Wehrmacht was not able to take advantage of the results of the Luftwaffe's efforts. As a result, the bombing came to look less like a military operation, and more like an act of terror. The German forces' fierce bombing of civilian transport evacuating the city can be similarly characterized.

And it's fair to note the Stalingrad bombings by the Luftwaffe when Germans occasionally mentioned Dresden to me.

The severely wounded city of Stalingrad took its revenge on those who had assailed it in a sustained and unswerving fashion until February 2, 1943, emerging in history as a symbol of the heroic resistance of the Soviet people and the grave of nearly a million German soldiers. A phrase of one of them, written in a diary, became known across the world: "Only one kilometer separates us from the Volga. But we cannot break through to it. We've been fighting for this one kilometer longer than we did for the whole of France, but the Russians stand like blocks of stone."

A historic and deadly battle that was waged for a long time.

Thanks for this OP, as I follow history and like to discuss it and read up on it, sad and tragic as history can be.

[Seekingasylum]

Whenever I encounter idiots who criticise the act of bombing Dresden as wanton murder I point out that more folk died in the siege of Leningrad than the combined totals of British and American war dead. And certainly, when it comes to the Nips and their bitching over a couple of bombs, a reminder that those little fuckers slaughtered over 6 million civilians through the most bestial and horrific of massacres, enslavement and policy of deliberate starvation usually shuts up the most vacuous of Nip lovers.

They should have dropped one on Tokyo and incinerated the entire establishment responsible.

I never bought into the forgiveness shit when it comes to the Nips: they make good cars and cameras but apart from that they're just a bunch of cvunts and giggle too much.

[Begbie]

"Stalingrad" by Anthony Beevor is a meticulously researched and very readable book about the debacle. He notes that the mass bombing raids actually helped the Russian defenders. The city was so badly damaged that the Germans didn't have an open path for their armour.

[harrybarracuda]

Whenever I encounter idiots who criticise the act of bombing Dresden as wanton murder I point out that more folk died in the siege of Leningrad than the combined totals of British and American war dead. And certainly, when it comes to the Nips and their bitching over a couple of bombs, a reminder that those little fuckers slaughtered over 6 million civilians through the most bestial and horrific of massacres, enslavement and policy of deliberate starvation usually shuts up the most vacuous of Nip lovers.

You forgot the horrendous medical experiments.

They should have dropped one on Tokyo and incinerated the entire establishment responsible.

At least.

[Klondyke]

The bombing of Germany occurred later after Stalingrad by US and British Air Forces. The first massed one was year after in Hamburg. Dresden was hugely bombed in last 2 months before end of war, under command of infamous British "Bomber" Harris.

The extensive bombing of Eastern Zone in the last months had to destroy any infrastructure and factory that would later serve to Russians after the war.

Similarly, very strategic industrial complexes in Czechoslovakia were "mistakenly" bombed...

[VocalNeal]

All the bombing of Stalingrad did was make it a perfect place for Russian snipers to defend.

[terry57]

I never bought into the forgiveness shit when it comes to the Nips: they make good cars and cameras but apart from that they're just a bunch of cvunts and giggle too much.

There is a shrine on the river Kwai near the bridge where the Pan heads breakdown, cry and worship their Nip war dead.

The tour companies stop there.

I seen this first hand and if i had gun i would of shot them all.

The animal acts that the Japs committed up there on the War prisoners is fodder for horror stories.

It's a disgrace that the Thais allow that shrine to stand.

[Klondyke]

A historic and deadly battle that was waged for a long time.

There are theories that the outcome of the Stalingrad battle had been awaited to decide whether the Allies (w/o Russians) should consider an appeasement with Germans.

Some events support such "theories":

- Flight of Rudi Hess (Hitler's deputy) to Scotland 6 weeks before Hitler's invasion to Russia.
-No significant decimation of the retreating British and French Armies at Dunkirque (to a surprise of many)
- US not entering into war, repeatedly refused by Congress, finally forced only by the Japanese blunder
-Long awaiting (2.5 year) in UK for an Europe invasion, in the meantime allowing Hitler to build the fortifications and concentrate his effort on the Russians

[Cold Pizza]

The bombing of Germany occurred later after Stalingrad by US and British Air Forces. The first massed one was year after in Hamburg. Dresden was hugely bombed in last 2 months before end of war, under command of infamous British "Bomber" Harris.

The extensive bombing of Eastern Zone in the last months had to destroy any infrastructure and factory that would later serve to Russians after the war.

Similarly, very strategic industrial complexes in Czechoslovakia were "mistakenly" bombed...

Thanks for this information.

[Cold Pizza]

A historic and deadly battle that was waged for a long time.

There are theories that the outcome of the Stalingrad battle had been awaited to decide whether the Allies (w/o Russians) should consider an appeasement with Germans.

Some events support such "theories":

- Flight of Rudi Hess (Hitler's deputy) to Scotland 6 weeks before Hitler's invasion to Russia.
-No significant decimation of the retreating British and French Armies at Dunkirque (to a surprise of many)
- US not entering into war, repeatedly refused by Congress, finally forced only by the Japanese blunder
-Long awaiting (2.5 year) in UK for an Europe invasion, in the meantime allowing Hitler to build the fortifications and concentrate his effort on the Russians

Intriguing,

And I presume we can only speculate about this....?

[Seekingasylum]

Intriguing???!!???

It's fucking deranged, as indeed are most of his crackpot, recycled fantasies.

[Klondyke]

Intriguing???!!???

It's fucking deranged, as indeed are most of his crackpot, recycled fantasies.

Another "recycled fantasy":

Once the war in Europe was finished in May 1945 the war hero general George Patton wanted to carry on on his own into the Eastern direction with help of the German POW hords who he cared more for than the displaced refugee in Germany - his official duty.

At the end of the day it had got too far for the people in D.C. Incidentally (?) the problem was solved before end of that very year: his Cadillac was crashed by a troop truck, few days later he died in the hospital.

[Seekingasylum]

Given that in 1945 the Red Army stood at 11.3 million men I rather think in that stupid little fantasy Patton would have had his work cut out for him.

[Cold Pizza]

Intriguing???!!???

It's fucking deranged, as indeed are most of his crackpot, recycled fantasies.

Another "recycled fantasy":

Once the war in Europe was finished in May 1945 the war hero general George Patton wanted to carry on on his own into the Eastern direction with help of the German POW hords who he cared more for than the displaced refugee in Germany - his official duty.

I've never heard nor read of this.

Patton and British General Montgomery were so short on gasoline they had sit and wait to get to Berlin while the Russians were moving into there. Gas supplies were very short and infrastructure devastated.

At the end of the day it had got too far for the people in D.C. Incidentally (?) the problem was solved before end of that very year: his Cadillac was crashed by a troop truck, few days later he died in the hospital.

Speculation,

but if you have any info / theories on Patton's death being orchestrated please tell.

[Warwick]

Speculation,

but if you have any info / theories on Patton's death being orchestrated please tell.

LOL There is a 'documentary' that reveals the truth for all you tin foil hat wearers:-

Brass Target (1978) - IMDb

[Klondyke]

General George S. Patton was assassinated to silence his criticism of allied war leaders claims new book
George S. Patton, America's greatest combat general of the Second World War, was assassinated after the conflict with the connivance of US leaders, according to a new book.
General George S. Patton was assassinated to silence his criticism of allied war leaders claims new book - Telegraph

The newly unearthed diaries of a colourful assassin for the wartime Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the CIA, reveal that American spy chiefs wanted Patton dead because he was threatening to expose allied collusion with the Russians that cost American lives.

The death of General Patton in December 1945, is one of the enduring mysteries of the war era. Although he had suffered serious injuries in a car crash in Manheim, he was thought to be recovering and was on the verge of flying home.

But after a decade-long investigation, military historian Robert Wilcox claims that OSS head General "Wild Bill" Donovan ordered a highly decorated marksman called Douglas Bazata to silence Patton, who gloried in the nickname "Old Blood and Guts".

His book, "Target Patton", contains interviews with Mr Bazata, who died in 1999, and extracts from his diaries, detailing how he staged the car crash by getting a troop truck to plough into Patton's Cadillac and then shot the general with a low-velocity projectile, which broke his neck while his fellow passengers escaped without a scratch.

Mr Bazata also suggested that when Patton began to recover from his injuries, US officials turned a blind eye as agents of the NKVD, the forerunner of the KGB, poisoned the general.

The driver of the truck was whisked away to London before he could be questioned and no autopsy was performed on Patton's body.

With the help of a Cadillac expert from Detroit, Mr Wilcox has proved that the car on display in the Patton museum at Fort Knox is not the one Patton was driving.
"That is a cover-up," Mr Wilcox said.

But his ambition to get to Berlin before Soviet forces was thwarted by supreme allied commander Dwight D. Eisenhower, who gave Patton's petrol supplies to the more cautious British General Bernard Montgomery.

[Seekingasylum]

Only problem there is that this book is specious nonsense but since we are now living in the age of the fuckwit I daresay it will be believed by most anyone under the age of 40 or any American.

Several issues here:

Berlin was always going to be left to the Russians as per the Yalta agreement.

Patton was a warrior only interested in fighting wars (he was not a politician in any sense and had no ambitions in that quarter - he actually believed that he was reincarnated from a lineage of warriors commencing in Roman times and claimed a feeling of "deja vu" when in North Africa ) and when the German theatre was closed to him he asked to be sent to the Far East but became quite depressed when the war ended there too.

His accident was at low speed and his fellow occupants were uninjured but his head snapped back and hit a glass partition fracturing the vertebrae in his neck resulting in paralysis. He was never in a position to fly home given the state of his lungs and he subsequently died of oedema and heart failure - the only non - medical staff admitted to his room was his wife (One of course does not know if she was in fact a sleeper agent in the employ of the NKVD).

The fuel shortage was spread around the entire theatre and everyone suffered but if Montgomery hadn't progressed as far as he did in the north then Hamburg would have been fucking Russian.

Why are folk so fucking stupid?

[harrybarracuda]

Only problem there is that this book is specious nonsense but since we are now living in the age of the fuckwit I daresay it will be believed by most anyone under the age of 40 or any American.

Several issues here:

Berlin was always going to be left to the Russians as per the Yalta agreement.

Not true.

This is what was agreed at Yalta:

[Klondyke]

Only problem there is that this book is specious nonsense

The Mysterious Death of Gen. George S. Patton
By Robert K. Wilcox November 22, 2012

In 2008 my book about Patton's mysterious death, Target: Patton, was published by Regnery with the core evidence, including:

● Patton was the only passenger hurt that cold day in what essentially was described as a "fender-bender." Two others in the car with him were uninjured, as were those in the truck that suddenly turned and caused the crash.
● The truck and its occupants were suspiciously waiting for the Patton car on the side of the road, according to a witness. It didn't start up until Patton's Cadillac was sighted. The truck's driver, a soldier and black marketeer who had stolen the army vehicle, did not signal when he suddenly wheeled the two-and-a-half-ton hauler into Patton's path. The truck's driver and his passengers mysteriously disappeared -- as did the sergeant in a jeep who was leading the Patton Cadillac.

● Numerous shadowy figures, including a general and other officers, quickly descended on the remote crash site, taking charge. It was a quiet Sunday morning. How were so many so high up alerted so fast? Where are the records of their visit -- and of the accident itself? All reports and investigations have inexplicably disappeared.

Patton, who suffered a broken neck and head wounds, wasn't taken to a nearby Mannheim hospital. Instead, although in need of immediate help, he was driven 20 miles to a hospital in Heidelberg, a half hour away. Gravely injured, he was expected to die. But a tough man, he unexpectedly rallied and was preparing to go home to the U.S. when he had a sudden embolism attack and died literally with his bags packed. Years later, a Soviet officer told a Patton family member that they had poisoned him.

Read more: Articles: The Mysterious Death of Gen. George S. Patton

[Seekingasylum]

Only problem there is that this book is specious nonsense but since we are now living in the age of the fuckwit I daresay it will be believed by most anyone under the age of 40 or any American.

Several issues here:

Berlin was always going to be left to the Russians as per the Yalta agreement.

Not true.

This is what was agreed at Yalta:

I was referring to the taking of Berlin by Stalin, a battle which the allies had agreed to leave to the Russians. The issue under debate is the nonsense that Patton had the possibility of taking the city. In tactical terms that is an absurd suggestion given resources, never mind the fact that Roosevelt had agreed the Russians could have Eastern Europe and the prize of taking Germany's capital.

Do keep up.

[harrybarracuda]

Only problem there is that this book is specious nonsense but since we are now living in the age of the fuckwit I daresay it will be believed by most anyone under the age of 40 or any American.

Several issues here:

Berlin was always going to be left to the Russians as per the Yalta agreement.

Not true.

This is what was agreed at Yalta:

I was referring to the taking of Berlin by Stalin, a battle which the allies had agreed to leave to the Russians. The issue under debate is the nonsense that Patton had the possibility of taking the city. In tactical terms that is an absurd suggestion given resources, never mind the fact that Roosevelt had agreed the Russians could have Eastern Europe and the prize of taking Germany's capital.

Do keep up.

A simple "I was wrong, sorry" will suffice.

In actual fact the Americans didn't "leave Berlin to Stalin", they desperately wanted to get there first but couldn't.

It was a bit of a race between the two, which originally people found odd considering they'd already agreed to carve it up in Yalta.

The main reason was that they wanted the contents of Germany's nuclear research centre in South West Berlin, and Stalin got it, along with a big chunk of Uranium Oxide. More by luck than judgement, the Allies got their hands on most of Germany's nuclear scientists, who had been moved elsewhere.

You should be grateful that you learned something new, rather than bitterly attempting to pretend you meant something entirely different.

Ayethangyou.

Now, back to the cricket, it's tense stuff.

[Seekingasylum]

Where did you acquire this alleged data?

Do you brew your own liquor?

[david44]

I never bought into the forgiveness shit when it comes to the Nips: they make good cars and cameras but apart from that they're just a bunch of cvunts and giggle too much.

There is a shrine on the river Kwai near the bridge where the Pan heads breakdown, cry and worship their Nip war dead.

The tour companies stop there.

I seen this first hand and if i had gun i would of shot them all.

The animal acts that the Japs committed up there on the War prisoners is fodder for horror stories.

It's a disgrace that the Thais allow that shrine to stand.

They were allies Rich powerful Buddhist Asians with power not surprising the locals went with the gravy

[Klondyke]

The issue under debate is the nonsense that Patton had the possibility of taking the city.

Actually, in the days of last week before Berlin's Fall, Patton dwelt in the West Czechoslovakia, in Pilsen (where the best beer had originated). There were some stories that the Czech resistance asked him to carry on to Prague 100 km to help there with the heavy fighting in the city. And that he refused because not wanting to cross the demarcation line agreed between West-East.