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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PAG
    Apparently during the latest negotiations, a lawyer for the UK went point by point through the EU demands and proved them flawed and illegal.
    Apparently? Either it happened or it didn't happen. If it happened post a link showing this point by point refutation.
    You'll note that no longer are there 'leaks' (or at least very little of them) coming from the the UK side of the negotiating table(s). Sound bites and off the cuff remarks from those not entirely within the 'college' of EU/UK Cardinals drip fed to the media is all.

    Sorry, 'apparently' is the best that can be offered at the moment, though note the lack of rebuttal......

    The closest that I can get is:

    "The European Union continues to demand £90billion from Britain in exchange for Brexit - something Prime Minister Theresa May and her Brexit ministers have repeatedly rejected.

    And yesterday the UK’s team in Brussels left their rivals stunned when they delivered a three-hour rebuttal of the demanded fee.

    During an “intense” discussion, UK officials read from an 11-page document which included 47 paragraphs outlining the UK’s opposition to the bill, the Telegraph reports today.

    This was centred on the refusal of the EU to discuss the bloc’s future relationship with the UK before three issues had been concluded: the divorce bill, the rights of EU citizens in the country, and the Irish border."

    As I said, soundbites, and quite rightly there can't be any direct quotes from either party. So, we're left with a media interpretation of closing statements and body language.

  2. #102
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    Au revoir, Adios, Ciao, Auf Wiedersehen.........

    Travel money demand suggests rise in Britons choosing south-east Asia

    Sterling’s slump since the Brexit vote appears to have led to not just an increase in staycations but a boom in the numbers of UK holidaymakers heading east to destinations such as Thailand, Vietnam and Bali.

    The Post Office’s travel money arm said the trends it was seeing in demand for currency indicated a surge in trips booked to south-east Asia as UK tourists look to combine winter sun later this year with lower prices for accommodation, food and other holiday staples.

    The weakness of sterling added hundreds of pounds to the cost of many people’s summer holidays both this year and last. On Friday the pound was trading at just under €1.09. That is down from €1.30 the day before the referendum in June 2016, and €1.42 in August 2015.

    But British holidaymakers heading to Europe are being offered much worse exchange rates than that at some UK airport bureaux de change. It was reported on Friday one at Southampton was offering €0.867 for a pound.

    While sterling’s slide has made overseas holidays more expensive and prompted some Britons to swap Ibiza for the Isle of Wight, others have decided to look further afield, which may partly reflect the fact that in the case of some currencies, the pound is not down quite so dramatically. For example, while sterling has fallen by 16% against the euro since the day before the Brexit vote, it is down 10% against the Vietnamese dong over the same period.

    The Post Office, which claims to be the UK’s biggest travel money provider, said one of the biggest surges in demand had been for the Thai baht. Sales of Thailand’s currency June to August were up 69% on the same period last year. Demand for the Vietnamese dong was up 29%, while for the Indonesian rupiah the increase was 13%.

    As a result, these three countries, plus Malaysia (up 7%), accounted for four of the top 10 spots in the provider’s table of the “fastest growing currencies” this summer.

    Andrew Brown, a spokesman for the Post Office’s travel money division, said: “Looking forward to the autumn and winter, there is every reason to expect that UK tourists will head east for long-haul holidays if our summer currency sales are anything to go by. Savvy travellers know that prices in Thailand, Bali, Vietnam and Penang are cheap, and in times when the value of sterling is uncertain, low resort costs are proving a big draw.”

    Strong demand for trips to watch the British & Irish Lions summer rugby tour made the New Zealand dollar the fastest growing currency between June and August, with demand up 124%.

    Brown said: “Sales have remained very healthy over the past month, suggesting New Zealand will be popular with UK visitors this winter.”

    In terms of Europe, Croatia proved to be “the year’s big winner”, with Post Office sales of its currency, the kuna, up by a third over the summer compared with the same period last year. Over the past five years kuna sales have more than doubled, it said.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAG
    And yesterday the UK’s team in Brussels left their rivals stunned when they delivered a three-hour rebuttal of the demanded fee. During an “intense” discussion, UK officials read from an 11-page document which included 47 paragraphs outlining the UK’s opposition to the bill, the Telegraph reports today.
    what that possibly means is that EU officials were stunned by the pure stupidity of the arguments put forth by the UK team 11 page document

    not that they were amazed or scared by those arguments, PAG

    anyway, the UK is about to enter the club of the irrelevant, like Zimbabwe or North Korea, so enjoy the ride while it lasts

  4. #104
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    The world's 6th largest economy is going to become irrelevant? Are there any other examples of trade deals around the world where one side is asked to pay for access to a market but the other isn't? The EU are in cloud cuckoo land and have over played their hand with their outrageous demands. Going to be fun watching the EU negotiators climb down when the real boss (Merkel) decides she's had enough of their stupidity.
    Independence day - June 23 for Brits.

  5. #105
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    Where did this £90bn brexit bill come from? I haven't seen any reports from last week's negotiations that state this figure. Is it the UK media drumming up anti EU sentiment again?

    As mentioned before, the UK want to start the new trade agreement negotiations so that they can hide the true brexit bill from its citizens. The EU is having none of it.

    Walking out without a deal is economic suicide.

  6. #106
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    No it's not as the drop in the pound more than makes up for tariffs the EU could impose under WTO rules. The EU will be the main loser and they are starting to realise it.
    Last edited by buriramboy; 03-09-2017 at 04:24 PM.

  7. #107
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  8. #108
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    'Brexit is a dagger pointed at heart of EU' Ex-US diplomat urges UK to split up Europe

    THE former US ambassador to the UN has urged Brexiteers to stay focused on "conquering" Europe during the exit negotiations.

    John Bolton urged Brexiteers to "divide and conquer" alliances in Europe as a way to defeat the "theologians of Brussels" during exit talks.
    Speaking to Nigel Farage on LBC, Mr Bolton praised Brexit as a "dagger pointed at the heart of the European Union project".
    He told the[at]Ukip[at]MEP yesterday that he made the trip to Britain on the day of the referendum "to experience a true declaration of independence".
    During an extraordinary interview, he said that the faster Britain leaves the bloc, the better for its future prosperity.[at]
    The former UN ambassador under George W Bush warned that any attempts to enter a transitional period after Brexit would ultimately be "misguided".

    Mr Bolton said: "This Brexit is a dagger pointed at the heart of the European Union project and they’re going to try and make Britain pay - at least their political leaders are.
    "They fear that a successful Brexit will encourage others to do the same."
    The former diplomat advised the UK to adopt a "divide and conquer approach" during Brexit talks.
    The US Brexit supporter added: "Talk to the business people in Europe with strong ties to Britain.[at]
    "They recognise that it is folly to hurt Britain during Brexit. Pit the business community against the theologians of[at]Brussels."

    Mr Bolton also predicted that a US-UK trade deal "wouldn’t take long" and could be finalised before Britain even left the EU.
    He was speaking as Brexit Secretary David Davis headed to Washington to champion free trade in the lead up to Brexit.
    The former diplomat and close ally of Donald Trump said a bilateral transatlantic agreement across the would be the perfect chance for the White House to put in place the "international trade regime it seeks".
    Mr Bolton added: "This has the potential to be a world magnet for business. It could replace other agreements like NAFTA."

    John Bolton tells Farage that Brexiteers should 'divide and conquer' EU during talks | UK | News | Express.co.uk

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    Walking out without a deal is economic suicide.
    do not underestimate the stupidity of the British, they done it before

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    Quote Originally Posted by Begbie View Post
    'The Delhi Telegraph', is that India's version of 'The Daily Telegraph'?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy
    John Bolton


    you couldn't have chosen the worst nutter on earth for advocating Brexit

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    Walking out without a deal is economic suicide.
    do not underestimate the stupidity of the British, they done it before
    You do realise that without the UK as in the only country that tries to stop the out of control spending EU who want to take more and more of your money with ever increasing budgets to be spent by unaccountable bureaucrats you're going to be a lot worse off as no one else stands up to them even though numerous countries agree with the UK. The French are really going to suffer though when they eventually reform the CAP as it's unsustainable, although at the speed the EU moves and the French will of course oppose any reform being the main beneficiary of it, you've got a few more years of helping to bankrupt the EU before your militant farmers take to the streets.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy
    John Bolton


    you couldn't have chosen the worst nutter on earth for advocating Brexit
    Even nutters speak sense now and again, although still waiting for Sybil to say anything that even slightly resembles something sensible.

  14. #114
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    regardless, you still have no plan

    still not prepared the details of a plan,

    and not have the skills and the staff to implement that plan

    you won't be able to negotiate any agreements with anyone after that epic Brexit fail

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    regardless, you still have no plan

    still not prepared the details of a plan,

    and not have the skills and the staff to implement that plan

    you won't be able to negotiate any agreements with anyone after that epic Brexit fail
    Now you're starting to speak like an unelected, unaccountable bureaucrat trying to justify his pointless job.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    regardless, you still have no plan

    still not prepared the details of a plan,

    and not have the skills and the staff to implement that plan

    you won't be able to negotiate any agreements with anyone after that epic Brexit fail
    You're right, there is no 'plan'. What you do have is an objective, which is to exit the EU and seek the best possible trading relationship with what remains of the EU after leaving. The 'plan' is merely a series of milestones, and what can be achieved with the EU team. Fall back is, OK, sad to see it happen, but Junker, please explain to the Polish parliament why they are going to receive circa 1 million claimants of social and welfare benefits, oh, and you need to up your contribution to the Brussels/Strasbourg long lunch club. Oh, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, Bulgaria, don't take a step back, German and France need you to puff out your ample chests and leave the brothels of Spain/Holland/Belgium/Germany/Switzerland and get your asses to satisfy the excesses of BMW/Mercedes/Renault executives who find themselves with more time on their hands with 10% downturn in sales/exports. Suddenly logistics becomes easy when your market has shrunk.

    I seem to recall that before and after invoking Article 50, there was widespread belief bordering on ridicule that the UK couldn't muster the required personnel to actually conduct the forthcoming negotiations. Well, that seems to have fallen flat. Davis has a team of over 100 every time they meet, and trust me, there are more international lawyers and trade specialists in the UK than possibly anywhere else on earth, bar the US.

  17. #117
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    Who on earth ever suggested Britain wouldn't be able to get a negotiating team together?

    You really do talk some unsubstantiated tripe.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    No it's not as the drop in the pound more than makes up for tariffs the EU could impose under WTO rules. The EU will be the main loser and they are starting to realise it.
    No it doesn't! No they won't!

    The facts, which the Tories have finally realised are facts, show that no trade agreement and no customs agreement in March 2019 will put the UK in the biggest pile of plop-plop this side of BDF-3299.

    It appears my earlier statement about the UK and its obligation to pay a substantial brexit bill is sinking into PM May's skull. The £90bn figure was probably plucked from chickenhead Daily Fail reporter's bum-fluff to make the £50bn - £60bn more palatable.

    The Tories have been backing a loser since they decided to hold off UKIP with a referendum. They are going nowhere but downhill.

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    Buritrashlad seems to think the pound sinking further and further into the mire solves everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Buritrashlad seems to think the pound sinking further and further into the mire solves everything.
    Do I, link to where I said this, you boring tedious oxygen thief?

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    No it's not as the drop in the pound more than makes up for tariffs the EU could impose under WTO rules. The EU will be the main loser and they are starting to realise it.
    No it doesn't! No they won't!

    The facts, which the Tories have finally realised are facts, show that no trade agreement and no customs agreement in March 2019 will put the UK in the biggest pile of plop-plop this side of BDF-3299.

    It appears my earlier statement about the UK and its obligation to pay a substantial brexit bill is sinking into PM May's skull. The £90bn figure was probably plucked from chickenhead Daily Fail reporter's bum-fluff to make the £50bn - £60bn more palatable.

    The Tories have been backing a loser since they decided to hold off UKIP with a referendum. They are going nowhere but downhill.
    You do realise the EU sells us a lot more than we sell them? It doesn't really make a lot of sense to start a trade war with someone who you have a massive trade surplus with unless of course you are a deluded EU bureaucrat or a blind follower of the EU project.

    The referendum in the 70's was totally acceptable and the will of the people should be respected but a referendum 40 years later should be ignored as didn't return the 'right' result, no wonder you are a fan of the democracy hating EU Troy.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    No it's not as the drop in the pound more than makes up for tariffs the EU could impose under WTO rules. The EU will be the main loser and they are starting to realise it.
    No it doesn't! No they won't!

    The facts, which the Tories have finally realised are facts, show that no trade agreement and no customs agreement in March 2019 will put the UK in the biggest pile of plop-plop this side of BDF-3299.

    It appears my earlier statement about the UK and its obligation to pay a substantial brexit bill is sinking into PM May's skull. The £90bn figure was probably plucked from chickenhead Daily Fail reporter's bum-fluff to make the £50bn - £60bn more palatable.

    The Tories have been backing a loser since they decided to hold off UKIP with a referendum. They are going nowhere but downhill.
    I do actually believe that the reverse is true. Manufacturing makes up 10% of the UK's GDP (apparently), and in spite of the gloom over Brexit, the latest PMI (Purchasing Managers Index - the best indicator of actual manufacturing activity) has just recorded it's record growth in over 3 years. There is of course the impact of sterlings exchange rate that is helping exports, as it is with record numbers of tourists visiting the UK.

    Trading under WTO criteria, given the current level of Sterling viz a viz Euro, favours the UK. Ability to source goods anywhere else in the world also favours the UK.

    Personally, the UK has made plain it's commitment to fulfil the current EU budget obligations (for period 2014-2020). I also believe that the UK provides at least 5% of the EU Commission staff for whom pension rights are talked about. The UK agreeing to honour the pension entitlements for those UK citizens who are affected seems to be just.

    All the financial services jobs that will be leaving London for the heady pastures of Dublin/Frankfurt/Paris etc, these people will almost certainly be EU nationals, part of the 3+ million that are in the UK. The impact on London as a financial centre, whilst potentially losing it's Euro clearing ability, won't be the tale of woe Remainers (and particularly the London based MP's) predict. Oh the irony, more Euros are traded every day in London that anywhere else in the world, and the UK isn't even a member of that currency clique.

    The UK is still one of the world's largest centres of scientific research, hence the continuing investment by global companies in Cambridge University etc.

    I don't consider myself a nationalist, I've spent too many years in other countries and cultures for that. Whether the UK through it's referendum has made the right choice or not only time will tell. However, I cringe at those who seek to denigrade the UK and it's people and almost willing failure on the current negotiations, purely for some form of 'I told you so' liberal smugness. It's like watching England (or Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland) in a football match, and half the people cheering for their opponents. Yes there has to be oversight and accountability of the UK's negotiations and strategy, but as a country we shouldn't be attempting to undermine the efforts of those who are trying to do their best for the nation.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    No it's not as the drop in the pound more than makes up for tariffs the EU could impose under WTO rules. The EU will be the main loser and they are starting to realise it.
    No it doesn't! No they won't!

    The facts, which the Tories have finally realised are facts, show that no trade agreement and no customs agreement in March 2019 will put the UK in the biggest pile of plop-plop this side of BDF-3299.

    It appears my earlier statement about the UK and its obligation to pay a substantial brexit bill is sinking into PM May's skull. The £90bn figure was probably plucked from chickenhead Daily Fail reporter's bum-fluff to make the £50bn - £60bn more palatable.

    The Tories have been backing a loser since they decided to hold off UKIP with a referendum. They are going nowhere but downhill.
    I do actually believe that the reverse is true. Manufacturing makes up 10% of the UK's GDP (apparently), and in spite of the gloom over Brexit, the latest PMI (Purchasing Managers Index - the best indicator of actual manufacturing activity) has just recorded it's record growth in over 3 years. There is of course the impact of sterlings exchange rate that is helping exports, as it is with record numbers of tourists visiting the UK.

    Trading under WTO criteria, given the current level of Sterling viz a viz Euro, favours the UK. Ability to source goods anywhere else in the world also favours the UK.

    Personally, the UK has made plain it's commitment to fulfil the current EU budget obligations (for period 2014-2020). I also believe that the UK provides at least 5% of the EU Commission staff for whom pension rights are talked about. The UK agreeing to honour the pension entitlements for those UK citizens who are affected seems to be just.

    All the financial services jobs that will be leaving London for the heady pastures of Dublin/Frankfurt/Paris etc, these people will almost certainly be EU nationals, part of the 3+ million that are in the UK. The impact on London as a financial centre, whilst potentially losing it's Euro clearing ability, won't be the tale of woe Remainers (and particularly the London based MP's) predict. Oh the irony, more Euros are traded every day in London that anywhere else in the world, and the UK isn't even a member of that currency clique.

    The UK is still one of the world's largest centres of scientific research, hence the continuing investment by global companies in Cambridge University etc.

    I don't consider myself a nationalist, I've spent too many years in other countries and cultures for that. Whether the UK through it's referendum has made the right choice or not only time will tell. However, I cringe at those who seek to denigrade the UK and it's people and almost willing failure on the current negotiations, purely for some form of 'I told you so' liberal smugness. It's like watching England (or Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland) in a football match, and half the people cheering for their opponents. Yes there has to be oversight and accountability of the UK's negotiations and strategy, but as a country we shouldn't be attempting to undermine the efforts of those who are trying to do their best for the nation.
    Well said PAG. It won''t stop know it all bluffers like Buttfly and Gent from pointless pontificating, but it does show that sensible, pragmatic compromise will eventually prevail, no matter what the ill informed, shit stirring haters might say.
    Heart of Gold and a Knob of butter.

  24. #124
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    Of course common sense will prevail when the real players get involved instead of the unelected EU bureaucrats. Merkel and Macron know full well the damage to their economies if the EU bureaucrats want to continue down their current path of trying the extortion method with the UK. The UK is the largest importer of German cars, the largest importer of French agricultural produce and i'm guessing the largest importer of French cars too, and probably the largest importer of various other shit from other EU countries, they aren't going to risk untold damage to their own economies because a few Eurocrats noses have been put out of joint.

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    More good news

    Retailers: Brexit puts UK supply of fresh food at risk
    Popular fresh foods could disappear from UK supermarket shelves if the British government fails to negotiate post-Brexit customs procedures, the British Retail Consortium said. Without such measures, the number of imports requiring inspections will more than quadruple to 255 million a year, the group said.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...retailers-warn

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