Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

clearly says there will be no hard border in Ireland whatever the outcome of Brexit negotiations.

That is really interesting. I think more details need to come out about how to keep an open border without a customs union but if it can be done and the backstop done away with the biggest stumbling block would be removed.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

That is really interesting. I think more details need to come out about how to keep an open border without a customs union but if it can be done and the backstop done away with the biggest stumbling block would be removed.

Indeed. The EU single market needs to be intact, and that takes checks, but in Barnier's words - no hard border.

The Labour members are now (as I type this) demanding indicative votes on staying in the customs union and single market - the EU has been consistently clear, this is not possible. Labour are as pathetic as the Tories in the current House of Commons.

Common Market is possible but you need the free movement thing,

since racist Maybot is a fervent opponent to immigration and free movement, Common Market is out of the deal

again too late to renegotiate all this,

Originally Posted by DrB0b

I said Citizens Assemblies, not politicians rewriting. I also think citizens assemblies would have been the way forward here too. Too late now though.



I've seen the list of amendments and most of them are just variations on the same old stuff that's failed before. I don't know what Bercow will pick for votes but I have little confidence in any of them.

there is simply no time for all that shit, why didn't they move their fat ugly ass and do something 2 months ago

Options, options, good grief!

Watching MP debates on BBC. Just beginning but 2nd referendum seems to have support. Should be a highly entertaining day.

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

Options, options, good grief!

I will nod off long before debates and votes are done but predict none of the above will prevail by end of the day.

agree, completely waste of time

obviously the problem reside with Maybot and Parliament, all this should have been resolved with a new REF2 long ago

game over people, hard brexit here we come

Originally Posted by NigelFarage

Very few countries in the world freely open their doors to a population eight times bigger than them. That doesn't make them racist.

I can think of 27 that do something similar. May was racist before Brexit, her appalling record at the Home Office showed that.

Labour, after much discussion about democracy, the rights of individual MPs to have their say, etc, are using the whip - even though, as I stated above, the 3 ammendments they've mentioned are not acceptable by the EU. Idiots...

Starmer taking over again; does Corbyn still pretend to be the leader or has Starmer taken over completely yet?

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Always interesting listening to the House of Commons, and very much in Bobbie's thought on democracy, when asked if the government should adhere to their manifesto promises in the last election, the opposing benches simply said "No", it is the houses right to control the business... (obviously, these were folk who want to stop Brexit and stay in the EU)

This sums up how the current mob of MPs fail to understand that a referendum must be respected.

House legislates, government governs; when they get this mixed up it leads to trouble, though in the current mess that trouble might well go unnoticed.

Ref1 was gov policy made lawful by the House; the two main parts of the Crown joined to make and legislate policy. Then it is law and must be respected, cannot be overturned on the whim of either but can be if they collude, with or without the Lords.

Would take some serious manipulation and kevlar undies, but if they do collude it could well be to revoke A50 under that 'honest' approach I mentioned in an earlier post. Otoh it could also be a more typical sneaky 3am tiptoe through the shadows.

^ you're absolutely right, and that is what they're trying to do.

Repeatedly, the strongest remoaners are stating that they will support half a dozen different motions as a "failsafe" - actually, they are doing everything they can to stop democratic process, hoping that Brexit will just disappear if they block it for long enough.

Clarke trying to press revoke article 50... He has zero concern for the populous or the trouble it'd cause. If the country is upset now, see what happens if parliament revokes article 50 and stays in.

These MPs are so sneaky, Clarke never mentioned once how the EU have stated time and time again that we cannot stay in the customs union and single market without free movement of people.

SNP trying to revoke article 50; there's a shock.

This is just going over the same stuff over and over again - the MPs on all sides are blaming everyone else for not compromising, but none of them are compromising themselves or adhering to the British people's vote. They are all intransient.

*** Friday: the government will bring their vote for a third time. ***

Originally Posted by DrB0b

That is really interesting. I think more details need to come out about how to keep an open border without a customs union but if it can be done and the backstop done away with the biggest stumbling block would be removed.

The daft bit has always been that heads of Ireland, EU and UK agreed several times there are no circumstances under which Ireland could have a hard border, EU's own study confirmed it is not viable to have a hard border, yet EU rules demand a hard border between EU and non-EU. Verhofstadt wasn't a happy bunny when Mogg wrapped him up in the rules vs rules exchange.

Frau had better come up with something, and soon.

Originally Posted by NigelFarage

I see, so if UK politicians decide they want to make changes to the withdraw agreement after it failed to pass in the house of commons twice, to make it acceptable, the EU will reopen it and allow the UK to "rewrite and remove" the bits it doesn't like?

The changes made before the second Irish referendum were important to prove to the Irish than Lisbon wouldn't diminish sovereignty, but the main reason for the yes vote was the economic crash that wasn't so dramatic at the time of the first vote. The yes campaign used it to say that a yes vote would secure jobs, but that was nonsense as the EU has done nothing about youth employment in the worst affected states.

I'm sure that if the UK had been allowed referendums on Maastricht and Lisbon we wouldn't now be where we are.

Wasn't it also Denmark and Netherlands that voted the wrong way only to be circumvented?

I suspect as you said in the chamber not long ago, the game is up and people are getting wise to not just the EU but also those of their leaders that wish to keep them shackled.

Originally Posted by Norton

Watching MP debates on BBC. Just beginning but 2nd referendum seems to have support. Should be a highly entertaining day.

Right now I go for a longer extension, but that could change in ten minutes.

Originally Posted by NigelFarage

The EU won't accept it, but it doesn't have a good reason not to other than it puts it on the back foot. It needs the current state of unknown.

Can't decide if they're playing chess where the better side wins, or poker, or worse, dice.

Originally Posted by NigelFarage

Britain does nothing to protect its citizens from having to compete for jobs with hundreds of millions of English-speaking Europeans, because it's the CBI's dream situation.

Because protectionism stopped working in the 1980s and is now totally unacceptable to business. If you think your country gives a fuck about you you're in for a lifetime of disappointment. Starting with Thatcher Britain was turned into a corporate state, run against all sense and against all idea of what a country is as if a nation were a profit making business. If you didn't protest against it you have no right to bitch about it now.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

I can think of 27 that do something similar. May was racist before Brexit, her appalling record at the Home Office showed that.

Which 27, after deductions?

Originally Posted by NigelFarage

It's a problem of the EU's making

And yet despite the most fervent wishes of the Brexiters the EU doesn't actually have any major problems. Step outside the echo-chamber and you'll see that despite all current problems the EU is still massively popular across Europe.