1. #5176
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    When a party puts it in its manifesto to have another referendum and they win a general election you can have another referendum. But which party will do this, the Tories won't, Labour won't under Corbyn. That just leaves you with the Libdems who you all could have voted for last time. Never seen such moaning and whining in all my life from people who lost a vote. Living in a democracy means you accept the vote and move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    When a party puts it in its manifesto to have another referendum and they win a general election you can have another referendum. Living in a democracy means you accept the vote and move on.
    Can you quote the relevant parts of the European Union Referendum Act 2015 that supports this nonsense you've just pulled from your arse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^^ Are you clockwork? Never known anyone so easy to wind up...
    No not wound up at all Troy. Just asking for Facts instead of your opinion which is all you continue to supply. You have made it clear that you believe Brexit will be an unmitigated disaster. Unfortunately opinions are like assholes, everyones got one. Difficult yes with a little pain thrown in but that will be all. The fastest growing economies are all out side the EU. Even in your spiel on the Euro fighter you failed to note that BAE has a finger in the F35 pie. Britain and many Euro nations have committed to buy the F35A and F35B. It is known the German Militiary prefer the F35 over the euro fighter despite their govts' preference. It maybe the eurofighter may have so little sales it will not be economically viable. Only time will tell. Brexit will not be a disaster purely because the after shock would be to damaging to European countries already saddled with high debt and an inflexible Euro.
    Please do carry on with your opinion based on absolutely not one solid fact. It obviously makes you feel convinced, but for everyone who likes debate backed up with facts your posts just become irrelevant hot air. If it's any consolation, I'm sure it's pure viagra to Bot fly and that poisonous little retard in pattaya. That particular circle of admirers should tell you something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foobar View Post
    Can you quote the relevant parts of the European Union Referendum Act 2015 that supports this nonsense you've just pulled from your arse?
    I see your point foo and if it can be assumed you are right and a majority favour remain and another vote is taken, what do you do in 2 years time if another poll shows Brits are in favour of Brexit? To me it then legitimises their right for another referendum. From my own point of view I must admit a Brexit is more likely to benefit Australia.

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    ^^ I'm not sure where the F35 came into this: I was referring to the Tempest to replace the Eurofighter around 2035. It does look rather like the F35 though doesn't it.

    There are several problems with tying oneself to US military aircraft and weaponry as Europe has found out in the past. To go back down that route would see a lot of wasted money.

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    The May deal back u
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    What do you mean except me? I've said it's bad since the start...it just isn't as bad as a hard brexit aka managed no-deal so it doesn't sound quite so scary.

    If you had read earlier, I mentioned a proposed amendment that could be voted on before the dreaded May agreement vote. This amendment is to ensure that a no-deal brexit does not end up as the default but must be voted on in Parliament: a safety net to ensure the UK doesn't go maddog.

    It is not the EU being petty, it is the UK acting like a spoilt kid. That's the way Europe sees it as does much of the world.

    Farage, Daily Express, The Sun, The Daily Mail, Boris, Gove and etc have all been lying to you. Parliament have realised this even if you haven't.

    You predicted a managed brexit? Of course you did...sucker!
    The May deal back UK into a corner. It becomes a never ending story. You canít support it on the proviso of an amendment that does not exist. You are saying itís a good deal, if only.
    As it stands, if that deal is voted in, itís bad for the UK, tying us in to more instability and uncertainty, and continuing this pointless debate.
    Article 50 means that no deal becomes the default position. There is not enough time to introduce new amendments after the horse has bolted.

    The trash papers continue to excite you donít they? I take as much heed of them as I do of Boris, Gove and co. My opinion cannot be bought by red top headlines and Farage has been dismissed by everyone except Farage.

    The world wants what UK wants. Stable and consistent economy and a gentle political hand on the tiller. I am not persuaded by these arguments you put forward. If the EU is playing hardball over this and you believe, like butters that we should be out of Eutopia, why are they making it so bloody difficult. Teach the UK a lesson, punish them for wanting to leave. That is what this issue is really all about and has been since the vote to leave. Like you, they canít understand that some people prefer to have options on who controls what in a sovereign state.
    Get over it, for better or worse, the UK is leaving, with or without a deal.

    Leaving still needs to be managed or would you prefer anarchy? A managed no deal Brexit it is then.
    Having called the EU bluff, the EU will do everything in their power to see this through by damage limitation. If only they had been grown up and reasonable in the first place

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    I am curious about that. Has the majority really clearly shifted? Rejecting Brexit with 50.5% in a new referendum would also leave a bad aftertaste. 60% would be a clear shift.

    Just curiosity from my side.
    It is the dilemma that Parliament has been faced with since the referendum result. How to implement a policy that satisfies both the electorate and the economy. The conclusion is that there isn't a solution that satisfies both. The May deal is a compromise that partially satisfies the referendum result and limits the damage to the economy. A managed no-deal will damage the economy too much and revoking A50 obviously fails to implement the wishes of the referendum.

    The question is does the May agreement provide a future better than the status-quo at an acceptable price. If it doesn't then what other solutions are there.

    Holding a no-deal Brexit to the head is not a clever way of forcing through the May policy, but this Government has already been held in contempt so anything is possible.

    The argument that the last GE was a vote for Brexit is a tad deceitful since both major parties had it in their manifesto.

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    ^^ Now you are just building strawmen that you can shoot down. The amendment is going to be put forward before the May deal is voted on. If it goes through, so that Hard Brexit fails to be an option, then Parliament can vote based on the merits of the May agreement rather than on the choice between it and hard brexit. Does that make it any clearer for you?

    Too many times people throw some irrelevant points into the mix just so they can shoot them down.

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    They can vote on as many amendments as they want but as I told you previously thanks to the Gina Miller court case Clean Brexit is the default option if no deal is agreed. Hence the panic now, the remoaners were all cheering when Gina Miller won the court case maybe now not so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^^ Now you are just building strawmen that you can shoot down. The amendment is going to be put forward before the May deal is voted on. If it goes through, so that Hard Brexit fails to be an option, then Parliament can vote based on the merits of the May agreement rather than on the choice between it and hard brexit. Does that make it any clearer for you?
    .
    From a simple legal viewpoint, your hypothesis is without merit. Parliament can not undo the Article 50 rules just to meet your dream. They do not have the authority to do that, amendment or not.

    If May’s plan is voted down, Article 50 is quite clear that a no deal Brexit becomes the default position for both parties.
    The date set for May’s proposal does not leave time to develop the case any further. Perhaps if Eutopia got off its high horse, they could make May’s deal more palatable?

    I guarantee that it will go down to the wire once no deal comes into play. The EU wants no deal almost as badly as you do.

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    Dominic Grieve's amendment on Dec 4 give Parliament the power to change the outcome of Brexit if May's agreement is voted down. There are a number of ways of stopping a hard brexit if Parliament wish. Plenty more twists to come in this debacle, which has made the UK look so stupid...

  12. #5187
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    The only ways to stop a clean Brexit are voting for Doris deal, extending or revoking article 50, that's it buttercup, nothing else on the table.

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    ^ There you are, you got there in the end. It's possible not to have a hard brexit.

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    Of course it's possible and I think Doris will get her deal through due to spineless mps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^ There you are, you got there in the end. It's possible not to have a hard brexit.
    Neither of those Article 50 options are desirable or even likely.

    Political suicide.

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    As if a hard brexit isn't political and economic suicide....

    Let's see if the mood shifts to the May deal. It will need the backing of the DUP, which is still unlikely. I have more faith in Parliament than I do in the electorate to make the best choice for the UK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    Because you don't accept the result of the first one so what is the point of another one, then keep going till you get the result you want. People had the choice in the referendum leave or stay then we had a general election where both Labour and Tory had it in their manifesto to leave. You all could have voted LibDem who had it in their manifesto to remain, so that's 2 votes already remoaners have lost. Suck it up buttercup we are leaving.
    I think you are missing the point,

    Ref2 will be there to make sure those who voted for Brexit are confirming their self-destructing choice,

    if they don't, then we have a big problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by foobar View Post

    ...But, thanks for confirming you don't want any more democracy because you know full well the will of the people has shifted.
    actually, what would REF2 accomplish at the end ? If Brexiters loses REF2, then we have a bigger problem

    that could explain why Maybot is not too keen on REF2, it just brings more political headache

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    I think you are missing the point,

    Ref2 will be there to make sure those who voted for Brexit are confirming their self-destructing choice,

    if they don't, then we have a big problem
    There won't be a ref2 or not while the Tories are in government anyway. Corbyn is a life long Brexiteer so he's hardly going to put it in a Labour manifesto should we have a snap election and people totally lose their minds and vote him in to no.10. A second ref or losers vote is just a dream of democracy hating remoaners but it isn't going to happen.

    My money is still on Doris clusterfuk of a deal getting voted through when mps realise it's either that or the clean Brexit they are all so scared of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    Of course it's possible and I think Doris will get her deal through due to spineless mps.

    of course REF2 will reverse REF1, everyone knows that, but what will it achieve really ?

    so Maybot deal is the only choice,

  21. #5196
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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post

    My money is still on Doris clusterfuk of a deal getting voted through when mps realise it's either that or the clean Brexit they are all so scared of.
    glad you come to the same conclusion I had 10 pages ago

  22. #5197
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    Doris deal or clean Brexit, Doris will get her deal through with Labour votes the majority of whose Mps hate Corbyn more than they do Brexit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    Because you don't accept the result of the first one so what is the point of another one, then keep going till you get the result you want. People had the choice in the referendum leave or stay then we had a general election where both Labour and Tory had it in their manifesto to leave. You all could have voted LibDem who had it in their manifesto to remain, so that's 2 votes already remoaners have lost. Suck it up buttercup we are leaving.
    Could be rigid democrats would like the will of the people to be tested every second weekend.

  24. #5199
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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    Doris deal or clean Brexit, Doris will get her deal through with Labour votes the majority of whose Mps hate Corbyn more than they do Brexit.
    she could ask the same question in a REF2

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Could be rigid democrats would like the will of the people to be tested every second weekend.
    and that would be bad how exactly? tough decisions need to be second guessed and revisited to make sure you are doing it right,

    but doing it right is never on the agenda of the Torries and their followers,

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