ILLegal Immigration & America's Future

**barbaro** · 01-09-2007, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Its basic economics. If America didn't require cheap labour the immigrants wouldn't come.

I agree.

The fact is US citizens are too fat and lazy to pick fruit or pack warehouses.

I don't think it's about U.S. citizens being lazy. It's about these jobs being undesirable and not economically feasible, even for unskilled, uneducated people. Most folks aren't interested in stooping to pick agriculture.

Bushes immigration reform was one of the few decent pieces of legislation his administration has attempted.

The problem with that legislation is that it was done twice before and failed. In the mid-60s and the mid-80s.

I don't think much will be done with the Illegals and illegal immigration.

As you said, these workers are needed, for many things.

People want cheap tomatoes, and business need illegals.

It works both way, both positive and negative.

**keda** · 01-09-2007, 11:07 AM

One way or the other the US is stuck with them and can't shove millions of people back over the border, not that anyone's realistically recommending that.

Seems fair to both sides for the admin to be choosy with a humane face , and kill two birds with the proverbial stone by giving the majority law abiding worker taxpayers some hope of legitimacy/permanency, and offing the others.

Sure it's not as simple as waving a wand, and demands political will that's going to be awol close to the end of a second term, but seems to make the best of an unfortunate situation, though no doubt the career nutters will probably still dredge up something that's not quite perfect.

**barbaro** · 01-09-2007, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by keda

One way or the other the US is stuck with them and can't shove millions of people back over the border, not that anyone's realistically recommending that.

Many more people are wanting to do this, from Ohio to Michigan, to Maine.

But it won't happen.

Seems fair to both sides for the admin to be choosy with a humane face , and kill two birds with the proverbial stone by giving the majority law abiding worker taxpayers some hope of legitimacy/permanency, and offing the others.

Amnesty won't help, as they've tried it twice before.

**blackgang** · 01-09-2007, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Does anyone have any information, from US government sources, on the rights of illegal migrants to claim welfare in the US (no blogs please) and the amount of welfare claimed by such people? "Mexican" bashing may be a mob pleaser for certain politicians but they should look very closely at who mows their lawn or serves their food at fancy restruants.

Letter to President George Bush (R): WELCOME TO THE NEW U.S.A. (UNITED STATES OF ALIENS) - LAND OF FREE CITIZENSHIP AND BENEFITS -MUCHO GRACIAS! - Congress.org
WorldNetDaily: Illegal aliens threaten U.S. medical system
http://www.alittlemoretotheright.com/blog/?p=1954
Illegal and Legal Immigration News-Statistics and Effects of Illegal Immigration on USA Economy
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:Ci3cHKwJDd4J:www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt%3FHEHS-98-30+us+govt+statistics+on+welfare+to+illegal+aliens &hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=th

**kerux** · 01-09-2007, 04:18 PM

One way or the other the US is stuck with them and can't shove millions of people back over the border...

Why not?

They've been breaking the law long enough.

Party's over. Go home. Here's your ticket. Cheaper than letting them stay.

It is our country after all.

**keda** · 02-09-2007, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by keda

One way or the other the US is stuck with them and can't shove millions of people back over the border, not that anyone's realistically recommending that.

Many more people are wanting to do this, from Ohio to Michigan, to Maine.

But it won't happen.

Seems fair to both sides for the admin to be choosy with a humane face , and kill two birds with the proverbial stone by giving the majority law abiding worker taxpayers some hope of legitimacy/permanency, and offing the others.

Amnesty won't help, as they've tried it twice before.

Sure it won't help without resolve, but set aside the democratic niceties, simplify the legal process, start a concerted mass repatriation of those deemed unfit to be illegal immigrants (sic), and it'll send the message that if you do manage to slither in you will have less to fear as long as you realise you do not enjoy the same rights as a US citizen to break the law or evade taxes without being fvcked over.

If there are paltry to zero negative consequences to entering the US illegally and then taking the piss, they might as well lay out the welcome mat to the global economic refugee that's looking for a cushy number.

**barbaro** · 02-09-2007, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by keda

If there are paltry to zero negative consequences to entering the US illegally and then taking the piss, they might as well lay out the welcome mat to the global economic refugee that's looking for a cushy number.

You hit the nail on the head, IMO.

I don't blame people for coming.

I'd come, if there was opportunity for me.

The welcome mat is laid out in reality, while the rhetoric is faintly in the distance.

**keda** · 02-09-2007, 05:46 AM

If remedies exist but illegal immigration is still a problem, then the problem is not illegal immigrants but political dithering.

**blackgang** · 03-09-2007, 05:54 PM

This from the LA TIMES, and this is the speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi' state.

>From the L.A. Times

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for

cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants
working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on
Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican
nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely
illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ). (All of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.

Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth
(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration.

29% of inmatesin federal prisons are illegal aliens.

**kerux** · 06-09-2007, 06:56 AM

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Mexican President Felipe Calderon Sunday demanded the United States surrender its sovereignty, abandon the rule of law and accede to Mexico's inherent supremacy.

In his state of the union address to the Mexican nation, Calderon established his imperialistic imperatives: "I have said that Mexico does not stop at its border, that wherever there is a Mexican, there is Mexico. And, for this reason, the government action on behalf of our countrymen is guided by principles, for the defense and protection of their rights."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/04...ept5/ index.html

This Mexican leader is saying Mexico is going to defend and protect his countrymen's rights in a foreign country they are in illegally.

The US should surrender it's sovereignty?

We've just been goaded by the Jew media.

**keda** · 06-09-2007, 07:57 AM

go on then, spoil a rare post of interest by compulsively showing your true colours...terminal ignorance

**kerux** · 06-09-2007, 12:07 PM

You know, it's one thing to be ignorant and hence fooled the first time, like when we were lied to and goaded into attacking Iraq. But after all the evidence is in and we know w/o a doubt that we shouldn't have invaded Iraq because there were no WMD, and no ties to Al Qaeda, [who didn't do 9/11 anyway] and no nukes, and to still not understand how we are manipulated, is down right stupid.

We are being goaded into attacking Iran based upon the same lies.

And now we have what I believe is one of the first of the many installments we will see that will provoke Americans to an angry response to the immigration problem, not so Homeland Security - headed by the Zionist thug Chertoff - can incarcerate the illegals - but so that HS can incarcerate those who use violence against the illegals after being goaded by the Jewish controlled media to do just that.

First it was ragheads, now it's Mexicans.

The problem is neither - it's the Zionists who control our country.

But you're one of the lemmings, so you'll never get it.

**keda** · 06-09-2007, 02:07 PM

gee wish i could be half as bright as you but still can't figure out the point of djoos going through the bother of owning the most powerful nation in the history of the known universe, and then allowing their own people to be routinely suicide bombed by allah's canon fodder and their children for the promise of a blinding fvck in some afterlife.

**barbaro** · 06-09-2007, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by kerux

headed by the Zionist thug Chertoff - can incarcerate the illegals - but so that HS can incarcerate those who use violence against the illegals after being goaded by the Jewish controlled media to do just that.

The problem is neither - it's the Zionists who control our country.

I don't see the tie-in with Zionism on the illegal immigration issue, and with Mexicans.

If there's a connection between Chertoff to illegal immigration, fair enough to put it here in this thread.

Otherwise, the Zionist thread.

**kerux** · 06-09-2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by keda

gee wish i could be half as bright as you but still can't figure out the point of djoos going through the bother of owning the most powerful nation in the history of the known universe, and then allowing their own people to be routinely suicide bombed by allah's canon fodder and their children for the promise of a blinding fvck in some afterlife.

I couldn't think as slow as you do if I tried.

What jewish people are being suicide bombed? And the Zionist don't give an rat's arse for the common jew. That's what Hitler was all about to get the upper class jews to move to Palestine. But I'm not going to give you a free history lesson.

I don't see the tie-in with Zionism on the illegal immigration issue, and with Mexicans. If there's a connection between Chertoff to illegal immigration, fair enough to put it here in this thread. Otherwise, the Zionist thread.

In the case of policy in the Middle East, it is no secret that Jewish organizations were at the forefront of the immigration policy shift implemented by the 1965 Act. Consider the assessment of Vanderbilt University historian Hugh Davis Graham in his book Collision Course: The Strange Convergence of Affirmative Action and Immigration Policy in America

"Most important for the content of immigration reform, the driving force at the core of the movement, reaching back to the 1920s, were Jewish organizations long active in opposing racial and ethnic quotas Following the shock of the Holocaust, Jewish leaders had been especially active in Washington in furthering immigration reform. To the public, the most visible evidence of the immigration reform drive was played by Jewish legislative leaders, such as Representative [Emmanuel] Celler and Senator Jacob Javits of New York. Less visible, but equally important, were the efforts of key advisers on presidential and agency staffs. These included senior policy advisers such as Julius Edelson and Harry Rosenfield in the Truman administration, Maxwell Rabb in the Eisenhower White House, and presidential aide Myer Feldman, assistant secretary of state Abba Schwartz, and deputy attorney general Norbert Schlei in the Kennedy-Johnson administration."(pp. 56*57)

Jewish Organizations Behind Illegal Immigration Catastrophe by Kevin MacDonald (Jan. 31, 2007)

If there wasn't a connection, I wouldn't have made the comment I did.

I don't see the tie-in with Zionism on the illegal immigration issue, and with Mexicans.

Just because you don't see the connection doesn't mean there isn't one.

**keda** · 06-09-2007, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by kerux

...yak yak yak...Just because you don't see the connection doesn't mean there isn't one.

and just because you see the connection doesn't mean there is one...geddit?

**kerux** · 07-09-2007, 06:38 AM

I guess those statements in my post #65 went right over your head, eh?

Or right through it.

**Lily** · 10-09-2007, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by kerux

That's what Hitler was all about to get the upper class jews to move to Palestine. But I'm not going to give you a free history lesson.

A history lesson from you?

**kerux** · 11-09-2007, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Lily

Originally Posted by kerux

That's what Hitler was all about to get the upper class jews to move to Palestine. But I'm not going to give you a free history lesson.

A history lesson from you?

"Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise."

Cato the Elder

**Lily** · 11-09-2007, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Milkman

I don't think it's about U.S. citizens being lazy. It's about these jobs being undesirable and not economically feasible, even for unskilled, uneducated people. Most folks aren't interested in stooping to pick agriculture.

Do you know why Americans aren't interested in stooping to pick vegetables?

Because you dont have fair labour laws. Other rich countries citizens do menial jobs, but they are compensated fairly for it.

It is not the nature of the jobs, it is the fact that the pay is so low and their are not strong enough laws in place to protect workers.

**blackgang** · 11-09-2007, 03:06 PM

Plus the fact that most produce is machine harvested now and not the labor intensive job it used to be,
Grapes, Tomatoes, Garlic, Cotton, Potatoes, most crops are that way today.

**Texpat** · 11-09-2007, 11:08 PM

I lived outside the States for most of the past 20 years.
In 2005 I moved to Los Angeles, just south of the airport.
Very few people there looked like me, talked like me, acted like me or had similar interests as me. It wasn't the sort of homecoming I expected. I felt as though I had, again, moved to another foreign country. Very few of my neighbors spoke English.

I lived there for one year and decided better off to move to Thailand.
Now I'm the alien -- and perfectly legal. Nobody looks like me, acts like me etc.... but at least there's a reason I can understand.

I suppose too many people watch too much TV and everyone wants the good life. Ahhh, America, where every woman's a Baywatch girl, everyone has a new car/mansion, it never rains and blowjobs are free!

Not.

Don't recognize my country as mine anymore.

**barbaro** · 12-09-2007, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Lily

Originally Posted by Milkman

I don't think it's about U.S. citizens being lazy. It's about these jobs being undesirable and not economically feasible, even for unskilled, uneducated people. Most folks aren't interested in stooping to pick agriculture.

Do you know why Americans aren't interested in stooping to pick vegetables?

Because you dont have fair labour laws. Other rich countries citizens do menial jobs, but they are compensated fairly for it.

It is not the nature of the jobs, it is the fact that the pay is so low and their are not strong enough laws in place to protect workers.

I agree, Lily.

American labor laws are the worst in the industrialized world.

And I do believe in addition, that the nature of the job also keeps citizens away from doing them.

**kerux** · 12-09-2007, 09:29 AM

American labor laws are the worst in the industrialized world.

Spoken by someone who has most likely never been an employer in the US.

Other rich countries [sic] citizens do menial jobs, but they are compensated fairly for it.

And what countries might those be and what menial jobs do the [natural] citizens do and what is the compensation?

**barbaro** · 12-09-2007, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by kerux

American labor laws are the worst in the industrialized world.

You are correct.

I've been on the employee side, but my familiy has run 2 businesses, one small, the other mid-size.

Can you be specific Kerux?

Tell us about your experience as a business owner.

I'm not talking about B & O taxes, and regulations, which I think are unduly burdensome.

I'm talking about labor laws.

Please continue.

Thread: ILLegal Immigration & America's Future

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions