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Old 27-03-2014, 07:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

Territorial acquisition is a dangerous game to start playing. The world has moved on from the age of annexation and invasion.

Clinton has compared this to Germany in 1930s. There are some parallels. Being sore about having lost territories in the break-up of the soviet union. Annexing neighbouring territory on the grounds of protecting your ethnic clan. Promising that you are finished when there are many other Russian ethnic groups in other neighbouring territories.

The psychology of Putin is a worry. He has a bit of a narcissistic personality cult about him which is a warning sign for a leader who has the potential to cause a lot of misery through ego driven confrontation.

I hope the world can show a united front when it comes to sanctions to see if we are able to control bad behaviour without military force.
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Old 27-03-2014, 07:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
I hope the world can show a united front when it comes to sanctions to see if we are able to control bad behaviour without military force.

...just like the world showed against the US's agression, land grabs, regime change, mass murder through illegal wars, backing, financing, arming a state who is all about land grabbing .....

Putin is not great, but compared to the yanks and their lapdogs in London, he's a saint.
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Old 27-03-2014, 07:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't consider Vladimir Putin as dangerous at all, and frankly given the events and circumstances his 'land grab' in Crimea was largely common sense. It is inane spluttering from our side that risks worsening the issue, I get the idea that is exactly what the foreign policy hawks want actually. Maybe they feel their war budget is under threat, or Nato's raison d'etre fading.

Ukraine & the west are just gonna have to get used to the fact Ukraine does not include Crimea- and I think the main result of stoking the issue will be that the chorus calling for eastern Ukraine to secede too, will just get louder. Putin seems to be content not to stoke this issue- for now.
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Didn't the Crimeans themselves vote unanimously to be part of Russia?

I'm a fan of Putin, he's a shrewd operator and doesn't take shit. Like Tony Soprano said, 'don't fuck with the Russians'.
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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What if Obama or any other western leader annexed a chunk of a neighbouring country on some flimsy protectionist pretence?

Would it all be cool bananas?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Like Tony Soprano said
Interesting that you should bring up Tony Soprano. Putin is acting like a petty gangster. Fun to watch on TV but when they are in charge of a large nearly G7 nation it is not so funny I think.
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9999
Didn't the Crimeans themselves vote unanimously to be part of Russia?
yes they did - over 90% of them.
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
What if Obama or any other western leader annexed a chunk of a neighbouring country on some flimsy protectionist pretence? Would it all be cool bananas?
What like afghanistan or Iraq
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper View Post
Territorial acquisition is a dangerous game to start playing. The world has moved on from the age of annexation and invasion.
I'm not a fan of Putin. I don't like him.

But the situation is....Crimea.

Can he get away with it military, politically, and diplomatically? Yes.

Quote:
Clinton has compared this to Germany in 1930s. There are some parallels.
Here we go again: "nazi." "Hitler." "1930s Germany."

There is not a single similarity.
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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could this have anything to do with the price of chips

After Ukrainian coup Obama wants to sell US gas to Europe - News - World - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9999
Didn't the Crimeans themselves vote unanimously to be part of Russia?
Yes. When they were handed over to the Ukraine SSR by the USSR in 1954 no vote. Putin just fixing that oversight. Very Democratic of him.
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
What if Obama or any other western leader annexed a chunk of a neighbouring country on some flimsy protectionist pretence?
If the country voted 90% in favour of it then it would probably be OK. Say New Zealand voted 90% to be integrated to Australia, I don't see a problem with that. Annex is a pretty harsh word in this context. You could say Russia has liberated Crimea.
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Most likely Jack.
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Old 27-03-2014, 08:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9999
Didn't the Crimeans themselves vote unanimously to be part of Russia?
Yes. When they were handed over to the Ukraine SSR by the USSR in 1954 no vote. Putin just fixing that oversight. Very Democratic of him.
Sadly mate, these days the only choice is between corrupt and fvcking corrupt.

At least we still have a vote ( )
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Invading a neighbouring nation by force and declaring part of their territory as now belonging to you is 19th century nonsense. It is not the way civilised nations conduct themselves in the 21st century.

Putin should be made to pay a heavy price as an example to the rest of the world.
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Invading a neighbour by force and declaring part of their territory as now belonging to you is 19th century nonsense. It is not the way civilised nations conduct themselves in the 21st century.
Totally agree with this statement, but it's not like there was any resistance, and the people of Crimea clearly prefer to be part of Russia than Ukraine.
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper View Post
What if Obama or any other western leader annexed a chunk of a neighbouring country on some flimsy protectionist pretence?
Historically, they [the West/any power] have annexed a good chunk of the world - in one form or another.

Yet, it's perfectly overlooked when the "good guys" take part, isn't it?
Come on Loop, get real.....
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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looper they never invaded they have troops stationed there no direct access to the crimea from russia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper View Post
Invading a neighbouring nation by force and declaring part of their territory as now belonging to you is 19th century nonsense. It is not the way civilised nations conduct themselves in the 21st century.

Putin should be made to pay a heavy price as an example to the rest of the world.
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9999
Totally agree with this statement, but it's not like there was any resistance, and the people of Crimea clearly prefer to be part of Russia than Ukraine.
Well they have diplomatic ways of conducting their claim on the territory. Massing tanks on the border and railroading a land-snatch is not good enough by 21st century standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rural Surin
Historically
That is the key word here RS. This is not the 19th centruy.
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Perhaps if the West hadn't got involved in helping overthrow the democratically elected government in Ukraine just because they had decided to look East instead of West then Putin wouldn't have had to take the steps he did. The West has broken so many deals they signed with Russia just what did they expect.....
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Invading a neighbouring nation by force and declaring part of their territory as now belonging to you is 19th century nonsense. It is not the way civilised nations conduct themselves in the 21st century.
Ok, but we have to burn Bush, Cheyney and Rumsfeld at the stake first.
If you can agree - we have a deal

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Old 27-03-2014, 09:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Well they have diplomatic ways of conducting their claim on the territory. Massing tanks on the border and railroading a land-snatch is not good enough by 21st century standards.
Fair point, but I hardly see Ukraine handing over land through diplomatic means. Ukraine went into turmoil, the Russians came in to save Crimea from the shit fight.

The massing of forces on the Ukraine border is a seperate issue (which I do have a problem with), and the Crimea thing I'll concede is not a good precedent, but still, Crimea wants to be part of Russia, I don't see the problem.
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Can't believe in this day and age, with all the illegal activity and atrocities the west has committed on various countries, not to mention the theft of land and resources, people still fall for the west's propaganda bullshit!
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Invading a neighbouring nation by force and declaring part of their territory as now belonging to you is 19th century nonsense. It is not the way civilised nations conduct themselves in the 21st century.
Ok, but we have to burn Bush, Cheyney and Rumsfeld at the stake first.
If you can agree - we have a deal

I know a lot of people have problems with USA's world policeman role and foreign policies but Putin orchestrating a land-snatch on a neighbouring country is barbarian and thuggish and I don't see a direct comparison really.
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9999
Totally agree with this statement, but it's not like there was any resistance, and the people of Crimea clearly prefer to be part of Russia than Ukraine.
Well they have diplomatic ways of conducting their claim on the territory. Massing tanks on the border and railroading a land-snatch is not good enough by 21st century standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rural Surin
Historically
That is the key word here RS. This is not the 19th centruy.
Yet, such activities are still carried on by assorted powers today.
Explain.....

Some do insist on existing in a vacuum [fantasy].
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:30 PM   #25 (permalink)
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