Thread: How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by RPETER65

You already pay for a drink of water.

No I don't. I pay for the convenience of having it pumped to my house. If I wanted to fetch my own water I could do that for free.

Good point. Is this another inalienable 'right' talking point now? Socialism and capitalism walking hand in hand

Originally Posted by panama hat

Socialism and capitalism walking hand in hand

Exactly

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Not everyone does.

Who doesn't pay for water, only fish and other aquatic animals. Everyone else does.

Originally Posted by bsnub

If I wanted to fetch my own water I could do that for free.

With what do you fetch it? I hope your free bucket doesn't have a hole in it. Or do you only stand outside when it's raining?

Originally Posted by OhOh

With what do you fetch it?

Originally Posted by OhOh

Who doesn't pay for water, only fish and other aquatic animals. Everyone else does.

We don't pay for water here, nor in New Zealand . . . just two examples from my current personal experience.

Anyway, that's beside the point, just rpeters 'trying' to add something of value.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Not everyone does.

Who doesn't pay for water

Me.

The company pays for it.

One of the perks of the job.

Originally Posted by MrG

If China thinks Internaional Law doesn't matter, they can tell it to the judge.

In the Hague..? You believe that will ever happen?

Originally Posted by bsnub

^ I love how you clowns like to side step facts when they do not fit your agenda. I have posted this article three times and not one of you propagandists has responded to it. It is loaded with sources and citations.

Four Syrian hospitals bombed since Russian airstrikes began, doctors say | World news | The Guardian

But you need video..

There’s video footage on the link you provided. Did you watch it and read the text below it? The text for the video says…

Video footage posted to social media purporting to show an alleged Russian airstrike in Sarmin on Tuesday

Why did the Guardian write that? Because there was nothing in the video that looked like a hospital or hospital staff? Because there's nothing to in the video to indicate where the missile came from? Because the Guardian could not verify the allegation? Probably.

Maybe being accurate does not fit your agenda.

Denial, just abject denial.

Bit rich for you to talk about "fitting agendas".

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Denial, just abject denial.

Bit rich for you to talk about "fitting agendas".

No confirmation bias, Hairy. As you can see from the Guardian article, there was no confirmation. Did you miss the words "purporting" and "alleged"? Confirmation of zilch. But that's the Guardian for you. Not right wing enough to come out with Snubby-Barracuda like statements.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Denial, just abject denial.

Bit rich for you to talk about "fitting agendas".

No confirmation bias, Hairy. As you can see from the Guardian article, there was no confirmation. Did you miss the words "purporting" and "alleged"? Confirmation of zilch. But that's the Guardian for you. Not right wing enough to come out with Snubby-Barracuda like statements.

Yes, they have to say that, because they didn't film it themselves.

It's the same with most of this footage.

If the rebels that posted it were identified, Assad would have them executed.

That's what he does.

Originally Posted by bsnub

I love how you clowns like to side step facts when they do not fit your agenda.

So laden with irony you have to consider that he actually does make it up.

Originally Posted by bsnub

^ I love how you clowns like to side step facts when they do not fit your agenda. I have posted this article three times and not one of you propagandists has responded to it. It is loaded with sources and citations.

Four Syrian hospitals bombed since Russian airstrikes began, doctors say | World news | The Guardian

But you need video..

Thanks for the link, Bsnub. Unfortunately, Putin's Kids won't be convinced--doesn't fit their agenda.

Martin Chulov and Shiv Malik
Thursday 22 October 2015 04.56 EDT
Last modified on Thursday 22 October 2015 19.25 EDT

At least four hospitals have been bombed by fighter jets in north-western Syria since Russia’s intervention in the war began in late September, doctors and international observers claim.

The latest attack, on Tuesday, killed at least 12 people at Sarmin hospital in Idlib province. At least three of the victims were believed to be medical staff. Survivors and witnesses said the hospital was hit by two airstrikes at about 1pm.

Dr Mohamed Tennari, director of Sarmin hospital, said the facility appeared to have been directly targeted and could no longer serve patients on one of the fiercest frontlines in the war.

He said the hospital had been the target of at least 10 other airstrikes earlier in the conflict. Throughout the war, international medical organisations have repeatedly claimed that medical facilities in opposition areas have been systematically targeted.

Physicians for Human Rights said it had documented 313 attacks on medical facilities and the deaths of 679 medical personnel in Syria since protests against the regime of Bashar al-Assad began in March 2011 until the end of August 2015. “Syrian government forces have been responsible for more than 90% of these attacks,” the organisation said. “Each of which constitutes a war crime.”

The latest attack comes less than two weeks after a US attack on a hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan, which killed at least 22 people – 12 of them medical professionals and the rest patients. That attack was widely condemned and has forced an apology from senior US officials, as well as several international investigations.

Khaled Almilaji, the country director of Medical Relief in Syria, said: “The whole world has to be just as angry as they were with what happened in Afghanistan. Their anger must not just be directed at Bashar, who has been inhuman with us, but also at the Russians, who are just as bad, but more accurate in their targeting.”

Since early October, Russia has closed the airspace over north-western Syria as its air force has embarked on an extensive campaign to target the armed opposition to the Syrian leader. Airstrikes have been especially intense around Hama and Idlib, where some US- and Gulf-backed groups had been making gains against Syrian forces in recent months.

Russia’s claims that its attacks have targeted Isis have been at odds with evidence on the ground in areas that have have been heavily bombed but have no Isis presence.

Video shot during the attack shows massive explosions, then dust clouds and screams. “Until now, 12 people have been killed,” said Dr Tennari, adding that another 20 had been injured. Among the dead were two hospital staff, who he named as physiotherapist Hassan Taj al Deen and a security guard Khaldoun Abu Din, both in their 20s.

In mid-March Sarmin hospital was the lead treatment centre in the aftermath of a massive chlorine attack. At the time Syrian regime helicopters dropped barrel bombs filled with chlorine, which left six dead and 50 injured and prompted further claims that Damascus had continued to use banned chemicals as instruments of war. Last month the hospital treated between 5,000-7,000 patients and undertook 100 surgeries, Tennari said.

“I think it was Russian,” he said. “When we were targeted by the Syrian regime airstrikes, it was different from this time.”

The head of the Union of Syrian Medical Relief Organisations, Zedoun al-Zoubi, said Sarmin was one of three medical facilities targeted in the past week. The other two allegedly hit al-Harb and al-Eis clinics in Aleppo province. This month, a field clinic in Kfar Zeita in Idlib and another in Latamneh were also reportedly hit.

Physicians for Human Rights said Hraytan hospital in northern Aleppo had also been hit by Russian jets on 13 October. “Missiles landed directly outside the hospital’s entrance and on nearby buildings, damaging the hospital and injuring three civilians,” it said. “Syrian government forces previously attacked this hospital on September 1.”

“In the last three four weeks the airstrikes have become very accurate, very precise and very intense,” he said. “(In the past) four weeks we know the situation has become really horrible and the number of displaced people are far more than before and we are talking about people who are used to war.”

The director of programmes at Physicians for Human Rights, Widney Brown, said Russia was following in the footsteps of the Assad regime. “These attacks are inexcusable. Claiming that the fight is against terrorists does not give any government the right to tear up the laws of war, which specifically protect health workers and facilities. With these actions, Russia is damaging hospitals, putting patients and medical staff at risk, and depriving civilians of life-saving access to healthcare.”

“I think it was Russian[/COLOR],” he said. “When we were targeted by the Syrian regime airstrikes, it was different from this time.”

He thinks it was Russian = He is not sure = he doesn't really know.

Physicians for Human Rights said Hraytan hospital in northern Aleppo had also been hit by Russian jets on 13 October. “Missiles landed directly outside the hospital’s entrance and on nearby buildings, damaging the hospital and injuring three civilians,” it said. “Syrian government forces previously attacked this hospital on September 1.”

“In the last three four weeks the airstrikes have become very accurate, very precise and very intense,” he said.

So something OUTSIDE the hospital was the target of the "precise", "accurate" strike and the hospital was not destroyed but merely suffered some damage.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Why did the Guardian write that? Because there was nothing in the video that looked like a hospital or hospital staff? Because there's nothing to in the video to indicate where the missile came from? Because the Guardian could not verify the allegation? Probably. Maybe being accurate does not fit your agenda.

I didnt see the video (I block JavaScript at the browser level) and it really is beside the point. The facts are in the body of the article itself and that is what you have still failed to address.

I have no "agenda" I do not spend my time reposting propaganda on TD like some of you. I just call bullshit when I see it.

So the fairies paid for the gutter, the down pipes, the collection pipes, the filter, the tank, the pump and the ongoing electricity to run the pump. The pump may of course be run on "free" electricity from your solar system which the fairies also provided free and come around every year to perform "free" maintenance, eh. Or maybe your government.

Originally Posted by panama hat

We don't pay for water here, nor in New Zealand . . . just two examples from my current personal experience.

Here meaning Thailand yes? I presume you have natural spring/stream/river. Do you go down to it to wash, do your laundry or clean the dishes? Or have you a pump which pumps the water though a pipe to a tank, possibly though a filter? If you do did the fairies pay and construct your water supply system? Alternatively does your government/water company provide free water to your home, or do you pay for this supply of clean water and the receipt of your foul water through your property taxes or general tax system. Similar system in New Zealand, of which I have a little knowledge, all paid through taxes.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

The company pays for it.

Part of your contract which is determined by what they think you will accept, in payment for your services. Nothing is free Harry.

Originally Posted by MrG

Since early October, Russia has closed the airspace over north-western Syria as its air force has embarked on an extensive campaign to target the armed opposition to the Syrian leader

No crusader coalition planes flying in North west Syria then

Originally Posted by MrG

“I think it was Russian,” he said. “When we were targeted by the Syrian regime airstrikes, it was different from this time.”

Said the Doctor, who presumably saw the planes, noted the types and serial numbers which later he confirmed with the Russian military, probably not. Is military force recognition a part of the medical curriculum? Or after taking care of the injured and wounded in the hospital, something most doctors and nurses would do I suspect, did he ask a"friend" who did it?

Come on guys this is like shooting a missile at a wedding party.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Here meaning Thailand yes?

No. Selangor, Malaysia. The state government ran on a platform of free water - and provides it. The pipes were laid a long time ago

Originally Posted by OhOh

Alternatively does your government/water company provide free water to your home

Yes

Originally Posted by OhOh

or do you pay for this supply of clean water and the receipt of your foul water through your property taxes or general tax system

No

Originally Posted by OhOh

Similar system in New Zealand, of which I have a little knowledge, all paid through taxes.

Nope. There is no separate charge for water - ergo sum = free. Government and Iwi leaders are in agreement hat water belongs to no-one so it cannot be charged for and it is a function of government to provide water as a matter of course

Originally Posted by panama hat

is a function of government to provide water as a matter of course

Who exactly "funds" the government? Is there a budget item in the government financial plans to provide free clean drinking water and to take the waste water to be cleaned up? Or do the water department employees and suppliers work for free. Do the government not pay for the cement and steel to provide for the pipes replacement and repair.

Oh you stated they were laid a long time ago, no broken pipes to replace, no industrial or housing development requiring additional capacity, no law changes requiring higher environmental standards. I suspect the Malaysian government wanted an identifiable bill for each consumer. Not achieving that they will hide the cost in a departmental budget, which will be passed on to anyone they can tax.

The only countries I can suspect of not charging for water would be some ME ones. Although water would be expensive for them to produce I would imagine. A second source of free water is the Israeli model, expropriate other counties rivers, mountains and lakes. The Israeli water industry shouts of self sufficiency, when you look at their water sources many are from illegally occupied lands.

There is a measurable cost to every drop of drinking water supplied and every drop of waste water taken away. Unless you live in a jungle, drink from year round unpolluted rivers, wash in the same and possibly use the river to generate a little electricity.

Luckily Thailand has some areas which fit the bill.

Oil wars will be seen as nothing when the water wars start.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by Neverna

Why did the Guardian write that? Because there was nothing in the video that looked like a hospital or hospital staff? Because there's nothing to in the video to indicate where the missile came from? Because the Guardian could not verify the allegation? Probably. Maybe being accurate does not fit your agenda.

I didnt see the video (I block JavaScript at the browser level) and it really is beside the point. The facts are in the body of the article itself and that is what you have still failed to address.

So you missed my post immediately before yours then? Or you didn't read it? Or can't you read?

Originally Posted by bsnub

I have no "agenda" I do not spend my time reposting propaganda on TD like some of you. I just call bullshit when I see it.

Likewise, and there is an odour of BS in some of the content you have posted, which is why I don't buy into it and swallow it hook, line and sinker like you. .

Originally Posted by Neverna

Likewise, and there is an odour of BS in some of the content you have posted, which is why I don't buy into it and swallow it hook, line and sinker like you. .

OH ok so there are no unguided Russian bombs hitting civilians, no hospitals being bombed. Its just BS that I have swallowed hook line and sinker.

You cant argue with stupid.

QAMISHLI – Syrian and Russian warplanes conducted several airstrikes on the suburbs of Idlib province in northern Syria, amid fierce clashes between pro-Assad forces and rebel groups on the ground, local activists reported.


Some 40 civilians, including six children, were killed in less than 12 hours in the airstrikes.


“Syrian and Russian air forces targeted the town of Killi in Idlib, killing fifteen people, including three children,” local activist Nour Maree told ARA News.
“A number of civil defense volunteers have been killed as well in the attack,” the source added.

In the meantime, the town of Sarmin in Idlib’s outskirts was hit by the Russian air force, “where more than twenty civilians, including several civil defense volunteers, were killed,” Maree reported.


Separately, battles have intensified between pro-regime army, the radical group of Islamic State (ISIS) and opposition factions in Hama, Aleppo and Idlib in the past 24 hours.


Since Saturday, a total of 80 fighters were killed in those battles, including 21 pro-Assad forces and some 28 ISIS militants.


Over the past few days, Russia has intensified its airstrikes on Idlib, Hama and Aleppo, claiming the lives of dozens of civilians, including media activists and aid workers, local sources reported.

Syrian rebels regained control over two villages in Hama province and have destroyed several regime’s army tanks.


Moscow claims its operations target ISIS and other “terrorist groups”, but activists accuse Russians of hitting anti-Assad moderate rebel groups and civilians.
Since the start of the Russian airstrikes in Syria in Sept. 30, some 350 people, including 120 civilians and 33 children, have been killed.

Reporting by: Egid Ibrahim

Source: ARA News


http://aranews.net/2015/10/dozens-of-civilians-killed-amid-intensified-russian-strikes-north-syria/

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by Neverna

Likewise, and there is an odour of BS in some of the content you have posted, which is why I don't buy into it and swallow it hook, line and sinker like you. .

OH ok so there are no unguided Russian bombs hitting civilians, no hospitals being bombed. Its just BS that I have swallowed hook line and sinker.

I've never said civilians haven't been killed by Russian bombs and I've never said hospitals haven't been hit. You just twist my words to suit your agenda. Try reading what I have said and not adding to it so it fits your agenda.

Originally Posted by bsnub

You cant argue with stupid.

So stop being stupid.

Is anyone actually denying that the Russian combat operations are causing civilian casualties? The mainstream Western media have all gone very quiet about it and I notice a lot of these articles are coming from more regional sources.