Thread: How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

NATO Secretary General calls for refraining from speculations over MH17 tragedy
TASS: World - NATO Secretary General calls for refraining from speculations over MH17 tragedy

"BERLIN, January 14. /TASS/. NATO’s Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said on Wednesday he did not find it possible or suitable to mull over who was responsible for the July 17 crash of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in Ukraine while official investigation of the tragic accident was still in progress.An independent investigation organized by the Dutch government was in progress and it was extremely important to refrain from any speculations on the issue until the investigators rounded up their activity.
He said he hoped answers to questions would appear then."


Why should he be calling for an ends of speculation now, it it aimed at the NATO's countries media to stop them publishing some embarrassing facts?

Ukraine asks EU to name Donetsk, Luhansk republics as terrorist organizations

TASS: World - Ukraine asks EU to name Donetsk, Luhansk republics as terrorist organizations


"KIEV, January 14. /TASS/. Lawmakers of Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, have issued an address to the European Parliament, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE), national parliaments in the EU states, the United States, Canada, Japan, Australia over a major massacre in the shelling near Volnovakha in war-torn east Ukraine’s Donetsk region on Wednesday. As many as 241 lawmakers from 226 required votes supported the specific decision.Ukraine’s Rada appealed to the European Parliament, PACE, national parliaments in the EU states, the US, Canada, Japan, Australia “to continue a policy of sanctions against Russia” and put the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics and other similar organizations on a list of terrorist organizations."


See posts 751 and 752. Do they ever talk to each other, let alone to the world, with one consistent voice? Talk about dealing with a bucket of eels.

NATO seeks no confrontation with Russia — Merkel

TASS: World - NATO seeks no confrontation with Russia ? Merkel

"BERLIN, January 14. /TASS/. NATO seeks no confrontation with Russia and will continue to look for ways to develop cooperation with Moscow, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Wednesday after talks in the German capital with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.
NATO is for political cooperation with Russia, Merkel said. According to the German Chancellor, NATO’s security policy in Europe is not targeted against Moscow. She said the West would continue to look for ways of improving co-operation with Russia.
However, the observance of the fundamental principles, in particular, respect for territorial integrity of other states is required for this, Merkel said."


Merkel should speak for Germany not hide behind a non elected organisation. She should also look back at how Germany reacted when NATO forced a division of a sovereign country in the Balkans recently before talking of "respect for territorial integrity of other states".

12 killed, 13 injured as shell hits bus near Donetsk, E. Ukraine - reports



"Twelve people died and 13 more were injured as a bus was shelled in the eastern Donetsk region, Ukraine’s Interior Ministry said. Denis Pushilin, Donetsk People’s Republic representative at Minsk talks, said the attack may have been staged by Kiev.
The incident took place near a Ukrainian military checkpoint near the town of Volnovakha on Tuesday, the spokesman for the Interior Ministry in the Donetsk region, Vyacheslav Ambroskin, said."




If the photos are of the bus it seems remarkably sound after being hit with 40 Grad Rocket shells, to me anyway.

Ukraine’s Donetsk Prosecutor’s Office has launched an investigation into the shelling, qualifying the case as a terrorist act, according to its press service. It said that the attack was “targeted" and “carried out by a Grad multiple rocket launcher using over 40 shells.”

RT Comment:

"let’s remember that right on that day the European Parliament was meeting to discuss the situation in Ukraine. Let me remind you of that when the MH17 Malaysian plane was shot down also immediately the Western nations accused Russia or the so-called Pro-Russian rebels and they imposed the so-called sectoral sanctions on Russia. Now there is almost no news about this investigation, this investigation seems to fade away, but the sanctions are still there."

US Government Agency spokewoman:

"Meanwhile, the US State Department was quick to draw conclusions and immediately accused east Ukrainian rebel forces.
“Today’s vicious and repeated attacks on the Donetsk Airport and the shelling of a bus that killed 10 people and wounded 13 are just the latest egregious violations of the commitments made by the Russia-backed separatists,” stated State Department spokesperson Marie Harf on Tuesday."


Accusations and blame already attributed. Has the agency already investigated the incident, produced evidence, sworn in a Jury, come to a verdict, .......... not at all, but they speak to the press and thus to the sheep.

I'm a little lost at the minute. I keep seeing all these reports of Russia sending lots of tanks, massive weapon systems for launching rockets and stuff to the Ukrainian People who are trying to fight against the fascist nazis the US dumped in power. However, I am yet to see any actual proof.

Its very easy to see the proof of all the weapons and gear the US sends to their nazi fascist mates; hell, they passed a law itemising it. But with all of the US'sadvanced satelite imagery which we remember from the gulf War (Iraq2) could pick out the smiles on the faces of iraqis sitting on their broken tank, there is no such imagery to back up the US and mainstream media's assertion that Russia is sending tanks etc.

IS this just a new WMD for the suckers to swallow?

Intercepted phone conversation suggests Russia will supply weapons, vehicles to rebels

This is classic.

On Jan. 6, Ukraine’s State Security Service (SBU) released a recording of a phone conversation that suggests that Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev promised one of the Cossack leaders of Luhansk People’s Republic to equip them with heavy weaponry and provide military experts.

According to the SBU, the people talking on the recording were one of the Cossack chiefs Pavel Driomov and the member of his unit Yevhen (Borshtch). Earlier on Jan. 6 SBU released another recording of intercepted phone calls between Driomov and the members of terrorist groups, where they said that a town of Zolote in Luhansk Oblast was under shelling on Jan. 1.

“I don’t know, but some four houses were destroyed,” the member of the terrorist group told Driomov on Jan. 1, according to recording.

Earlier SBU provided a recording where Russia-backed separatists confessed the shelling that continues in the east of Ukraine. On Dec. 6 the SBU released intercepted phone conversation, in which members of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic reported that they have opened fire near Novobakhmutivka village, that resulted in civilian casualties.

Read the full transcript of an intercepted phone call below:

Pavel Driomov (nickname Batia): Guess whom I met with just now?

Yevhen: Maybe with Tambov?

PD: I had an meeting with Dmitry Medvedev.

Yevhen: Oh, that’s good. And how was he?

PD: He’s okay. He managed to get us Grad multiple rocket launchers, guns and told that (Ihor) Plotnytskiy (the leader of self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic) will apologize to us. He’ll come back from Moscow and give a televised address in which he’ll apologize to the first Cossack unit, because they have always been fighting for the nation and they are the best.

Yevhen: Really?

PD: Yes. They will let us keep the same insignia, a name of the unit and our flag. But we have to change the title. We’ll have multi-service title now.

Yevhen: Who gives a f*ck!

PD: They’d give us tanks, they’d give us everything. Do you know how they called us? “You are in the vanguard of Russian Federation Cossacks.” The most important is that we’ll be provided with all the weapons before Jan. 15. Tambov was ordered to give us tanks, ground combat vehicles, and guns.

Yevhen: They will give us all this stuff?

PD: And what’s more important, I witnessed Medvedev to order to provide us with military professionals, not some advisers-chatterboxes. They really could teach people how to make things right. They are real soldiers and I trust them. That’s what I heard myself.

Yevhen: Wow!

PD: Dude, can you imagine – I have Medvedev’s phone number! Not some of his fucking assistants, but his number! The most interesting is that he’d officially invite 125 children from Gorlivka and Stakhanov on Jan. 5 to check Kremlin’s Christmas tree! Now to the bad news.

Yevhen: Yes.

PD: On Sunday “Tambov” will check everything, so we need to show him warehouses, 6th school, where we will have the headquarters.

Yevhen: F*ck, but the building of the 6th school is kind of unprepared, Pavel Leonidovich.

PD: We’ll do it! He needs to see the walls and now they will give us all we need.

SBU comment: De-facto Kuzovliov Sergei Yurievich (nom de guerre Tambov, Ignatov), Russian major-general, is Driomin’s boss.

Serhiy Kuzovliov: Yes.

Pavel Driomov: Sergei Yurievich, let me report on staff. The total number is 1,176 now, including 35 freelancers.

SK: Okay, good.

PD: This is without “ghost souls.” All those who are in. I checked it all myself.

SK: Anyway, Pavel Leonidovich, let them know that I’ll inspect all the units together with you – and will check, and look and count.

PD: Of course, Sergei Yurievich, they are ready. We even can have a unit set-up if needed.

SK: Great.

Not even the mainstream media has the brass neck to reprint this load of bollocks like they did the last time. I like how the Ukrainian fascist nazis who clearly obviously wrote this themselves admit in the middle of it that the Russians have only sent "advisers-chatterboxes".

With Crimea now safely part of Russia again, Putin can easily bypass (via the Black sea) the neo-Nazi cheats in Ukraine, who siphon off Russian gas and are always reluctant to pay their Bills (annual drama). This is not what the US wanted. Neither does Putin have to relocate the Black Sea Fleet. This is not what the American neo-cons wanted, at all. Sevastopol is a fine harbor.

So what is left, is the Ukrainian wheatbowl- the famed, fertile black soil ideal for agriculture. Maybe it's good for Monsanto. And a totally dysfunctional, bankrupt nation with worrying racist & fascist tendencies- with a rebellious east, where most of the industrial production (and coal mining) is located. How do you spell Pyrrhic victory?

So I can understand US petulance, and I can understand growing European resentment over the US role in this- because who is gonna end up paying for the fiasco? Soon enough, the 'problem' will be handed to the IMF- and who funds that? Us. More bad debts. And why on earth would the EU want such a country to join them? It is many years away from even remotely qualifying.

There will be some interesting Spin from the western leaders and media shortly.

All of the EU, and dare say US leaders or representatives will be visiting Auschwitz to commemorate / celebrate the 70th anniversary of the liberation of the Nazi death camp. Leading the rabble will be some Polish bloke, along with the French (nazi conspirators), the Germans (the people who actually did it), but not Putin or any Russian at all. Seems a little odd that the country that actually liberate Auschwitz, whose death toll in defeating Hitler was higher than any others, a staggering 21,000,000 people including civilians and military, 100% more than its closest rival in this gruesome tale, China, three times as much as Germany, is not allowed to attend an event to officially mark 70 years passing since they liberated it. A lot of muck is written about the US entering the fray, and they of course want us to believe that they saved Europe when really what they wanted was to stop Russia pushing through to all of Germany. Russia on the whole defeated Germany with their cruel winters aiding them, and their endless supply of Russian people putting down their lives to defeat the Nazis.

How is this remembered? Well, they were not invited to attend this event, and unlike pushy Bibi from israel, they are not going where they are not wanted.

So I wonder how the mainstream cold war promoting press will report this? Will Fox and the murdoch empire bleat "Russians snubb Auschwitz?" or some such trash? they can pretty much say what they like because most of the people in the west only pay attention to murdoch trash along with the other mainstream propaganda merchants.

Maybe Monsieur Le Froggie doesn't want Putin standing next to him saying "Heh, you know that $1 billion check of ours you cashed for the Mistral ships... any chance of actually delivering us something or are you going to completely ignore that contract because Washington told you to?"

This is all a huge embarrassment to the people of Europe and Russia; the people who stood together to defeat the Nazis. And to have 70th anniversary with out the Russians being in attendance, with only the actual perpetrators of the atrocities being represented, is an insult to the supposed freedom that died to gift to us.

Russia killed 100's of thousands, if not millions, of Poles through execution, starvation, forced marches and slave labour, (along with Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, Ukrainians... should we really care that they're not present at Auschwitz?
At least the Germans that will attend recognise the atrocities they committed.

Originally Posted by Neo

Russia killed 100's of thousands, if not millions, of Poles through execution, starvation, forced marches and slave labour, (along with Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, Ukrainians... should we really care that they're not present at Auschwitz?
At least the Germans that will attend recognise the atrocities they committed.

Auschwitz survivors greet a Red Army doctor upon the camp’s liberation in 1945. Photograph: Getty Images

Well you might be interested them being in Auschwitz, but the people who were in there at the time were sure glad to see them.

don't let the rosy specs get in the way of reality

Originally Posted by Neo

don't let the rosy specs get in the way of reality

I don't. Don't let the Red and Blue specs get in the way of reality.

I hope the Russians spot it earlier next time then blow it out of the sky (with the crew jumping out the plane safely, of course).

Originally Posted by sabang

Ukraine & the west are just gonna have to get used to the fact Ukraine does not include Crimea

Like Poland got used to being part of Germany....
Like Palestineans should get used to being part if Israel...
Problem solved. Right?

Crimea has actually been Russian for centuries MrG- that's the difference. A rather fundamental difference.

Originally Posted by sabang

Crimea has actually been Russian for centuries MrG- that's the difference. A rather fundamental difference.

Yes...into the Valley of Death rode the 600.

Originally Posted by MrG

Originally Posted by sabang

Ukraine & the west are just gonna have to get used to the fact Ukraine does not include Crimea

Like Israel should get used to being part of Palestine...
Problem solved. Right?

Fixed that for you if you are going to you that analogy.

Originally Posted by sabang

Crimea has actually been Russian for centuries MrG- that's the difference. A rather fundamental difference.

Point taken: I may have missed the nuance of the initial statement.
But this is a thread about Putin. Ukrain had--not has--been Russian for a couple of centuries, and contemporary nationality and national boundaries make a fundamental difference. That was my point.

During the Middle Ages, the area of modern Ukraine was the key center of East Slavic culture, as epitomized by the powerful state of Kievan Rus'. Following its fragmentation in the 13th century, the territory was contested, ruled and divided by a variety of powers, including Lithuania, Poland, the Ottoman Empire, Austro-Hungary, and Russia. A Cossack republic emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries, but Ukraine's territories remained divided until they were consolidated into a Soviet republic in the 20th century. It became independent in 1991.

Ukraine has long been a global breadbasket because of its extensive, fertile farmlands. In 2011 it became the world's third-largest grain exporter, with a higher than average yield;[13] subsequently, it is among the ten most attractive agricultural land acquisition regions.[14] The country also has a well-developed manufacturing sector, particularly in aerospace and industrial equipment.

Wikipedia

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Would be fair if the present population would have had a chance to vote for joining Russia. However it was taken by gun instead.

Absolute rubbish.

Referendum. Magnanimous result. Also backed up by shock reports from Gallop which showed that no matter what rubbish the west and the nazis in Ukraine chucked at their "vote", 80% + of all those surveyed thought that the result accurately represented the feeling of the people in Crimea. Would have thought that you living in Germany would be a bit careful about backing a group of extremist right wing wannabee nazis!

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Absolute rubbish.

Referendum. Magnanimous result. Also backed up by shock reports from Gallop which showed that no matter what rubbish the west and the nazis in Ukraine chucked at their "vote", 80% + of all those surveyed thought that the result accurately represented the feeling of the people in Crimea. Would have thought that you living in Germany would be a bit careful about backing a group of extremist right wing wannabee nazis!

Votes taken by the point of the gun, after driving opposition into hiding are worth nothing. I repeat, if true then why did Putin not press for an internationally supervised referendum? It could not have been denied. Instead he used military force. Just because he likes his guns?

Sanctions over the Ukraine conflict are affecting British farmers. Obviously the farmers should all blame Mr Putin.

BBC News - MPs urge action on milk price cuts

MPs have urged the government to do more to protect dairy farmers from sharp falls in milk prices.

The Commons Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee said farmers were being forced out of business every week by factors beyond their control.

The government said it was doing all it could to help farmers cope with the "volatility of the global market".

Milk prices have come under pressure from a combination of rising supply and falling demand, particularly as a result of lower-than-expected demand from China and Russia's ban on food imports.

Moscow's decision to ban EU dairy products, taken in response to sanctions over the Ukraine conflict, had led to 2.5 billion litres of milk not being sold in Russia, the MPs said.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Absolute rubbish.

Referendum. Magnanimous result. Also backed up by shock reports from Gallop which showed that no matter what rubbish the west and the nazis in Ukraine chucked at their "vote", 80% + of all those surveyed thought that the result accurately represented the feeling of the people in Crimea. Would have thought that you living in Germany would be a bit careful about backing a group of extremist right wing wannabee nazis!

Votes taken by the point of the gun, after driving opposition into hiding are worth nothing. I repeat, if true then why did Putin not press for an internationally supervised referendum? It could not have been denied. Instead he used military force. Just because he likes his guns?

Driving opposition into hiding? Are you off your head? The only people doing that are the right wing hardliners that the US pushed into power with their "military advisors" (aka, snipers from academi).

Are you trying to say that over a million people were driven out of Crimea? Because that's how many people would have to have been displaced if what you say is true! If so, where are they? Where is the refugee camps? The photos of the miles and miles of people rushing to get out?

Dream world you mainstream media muppets.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Putin not press for an internationally supervised referendum

Because it happened rather quickly and PUTIN had nothing to do with it. The Ethnic russians in Crimea were under thug brutish attacks by your nazi mates, so they had a referendum, and voted almost to a man to rejoin Russia. Also, I have asked this before of your lot of denialists; show me one piece of solid evidence that Russia are supplying arms and heavy weapons to their brothers in Crimea. The US says they have loads of evidence but they don't show their hand. So where is this evidence?? Where? The only imported guns are from the US to a bunch of Nazis. Same ole same ole US foreign policy - team up with terrorists to further their neocon dream.