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Old 10-03-2014, 11:06 AM   #151 (permalink)
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I'm not sure sure about the fake passports.....

A bit of a coincidence that two passports stolen at different times appear on the same plane. Ongoing flights to ensure no visa required for China..... Tickets bought at the same time and place.... it sure is one hell of a coincidence, but we have to retain an open mind.

One thing that can be sure, is someone travelling on a fake passport is up to no good of some kind..........
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:24 AM   #152 (permalink)
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^Tickets bought at the same time and place is what struck me.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:29 AM   #153 (permalink)
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^Tickets bought at the same time and place is what struck me.
Yes two passports stolen at different times from two different nationalities and the holders of the two stolen passports just happen to end up buying airline tickets on the same flight at the same time, and from the same outlet, two years later.

What the chances.......2 or 3 billion to 1....?
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:35 AM   #154 (permalink)
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There's a chap I met in The Offshore Bar in Bangkok who told me his story about him and three other Westerners being offered jobs in Australia. They were in Kuala Lumpur at the time. A Sri Lankan offered work in Australia, the guys agreed, filled in application forms, gave the guy their passports. Met up the next day, got passports back and flight tickets to Australia. Three guys got on a flight, the chap from the bar had to wait for the next flight as no room on the plane, he boarded later and flew to Aus. He was arrested on arrival and asked how someone had arrived on the previous flight with the same passport.
I don't remember all the details, I was a little under the influence.
The chap from the bar has lived in Surin for some 30 years as I remember, if you are in the bar I am sure the landlord could tell you the full story.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:40 AM   #155 (permalink)
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^Tickets bought at the same time and place is what struck me.
Yes two passports stolen at different times from two different nationalities and the holders of the two stolen passports just happen to end up buying airline tickets on the same flight at the same time, and from the same outlet, two years later.

What the chances.......2 or 3 billion to 1....?


I don't understand the point you are tying to make.
The two are obviously travelling together, criminals of some sort need to travel, go to the local stolen passport guy who sells them two passports from his stash.
Then they buy tickets and go.....
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:42 AM   #156 (permalink)
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Stolen passports

Interpol confirmed it knew about the stolen passports but said no authorities checked its vast databases on stolen documents before the Boeing jetliner departed Saturday from Kuala Lumpur en route to Beijing with 239 people on board.

Warning "only a handful of countries" routinely make such checks, Interpol secretary general Ronald Noble chided authorities for "waiting for a tragedy to put prudent security measures in place at borders and boarding gates."



The thefts of the two passports one belonging to Austrian Christian Kozel and the other to Luigi Maraldi of Italy were entered into Interpol's database after they were stolen in Thailand in 2012 and last year, the police body said. But no authorities in Malaysia or elsewhere checked the passports against the database of 40 million stolen or lost travel documents before the Malaysian Airlines plane took off.

In a forceful statement, the Interpol chief, who has called passport fraud one of the world's greatest threats, said he hoped "that governments and airlines worldwide will learn from the tragedy."



"Now, we have a real case where the world is speculating whether the stolen passport holders were terrorists," Noble said. "Interpol is asking why only a handful of countries worldwide are taking care to make sure that persons possessing stolen passports are not boarding international flights."


So here we have a resource which would seem to be fundamental to air travel security and most countries/airlines don't even bother their ass using it......
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:44 AM   #157 (permalink)
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^Tickets bought at the same time and place is what struck me.
Yes two passports stolen at different times from two different nationalities and the holders of the two stolen passports just happen to end up buying airline tickets on the same flight at the same time, and from the same outlet, two years later.

What the chances.......2 or 3 billion to 1....?


I don't understand the point you are tying to make.
The two are obviously travelling together, criminals of some sort need to travel, go to the local stolen passport guy who sells them two passports from his stash.
Then they buy tickets and go.....
THAT was the point!!!
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:51 AM   #158 (permalink)
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^Tickets bought at the same time and place is what struck me.
Yes two passports stolen at different times from two different nationalities and the holders of the two stolen passports just happen to end up buying airline tickets on the same flight at the same time, and from the same outlet, two years later.

What the chances.......2 or 3 billion to 1....?
The two people on fake passports are most probably connected, but that doesnt mean that they had anything to do with the plane going down .
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:54 AM   #159 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koman View Post
Stolen passports

Interpol confirmed it knew about the stolen passports but said no authorities checked its vast databases on stolen documents before the Boeing jetliner departed Saturday from Kuala Lumpur en route to Beijing with 239 people on board.

Warning "only a handful of countries" routinely make such checks, Interpol secretary general Ronald Noble chided authorities for "waiting for a tragedy to put prudent security measures in place at borders and boarding gates."



The thefts of the two passports one belonging to Austrian Christian Kozel and the other to Luigi Maraldi of Italy were entered into Interpol's database after they were stolen in Thailand in 2012 and last year, the police body said. But no authorities in Malaysia or elsewhere checked the passports against the database of 40 million stolen or lost travel documents before the Malaysian Airlines plane took off.

In a forceful statement, the Interpol chief, who has called passport fraud one of the world's greatest threats, said he hoped "that governments and airlines worldwide will learn from the tragedy."



"Now, we have a real case where the world is speculating whether the stolen passport holders were terrorists," Noble said. "Interpol is asking why only a handful of countries worldwide are taking care to make sure that persons possessing stolen passports are not boarding international flights."


So here we have a resource which would seem to be fundamental to air travel security and most countries/airlines don't even bother their ass using it......
However, all Western countries still allow flights from these countries that don't carry out these checks, would be a simple rule to enforce ?
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:59 AM   #160 (permalink)
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^Tickets bought at the same time and place is what struck me.
Yes two passports stolen at different times from two different nationalities and the holders of the two stolen passports just happen to end up buying airline tickets on the same flight at the same time, and from the same outlet, two years later.

What the chances.......2 or 3 billion to 1....?
The two people on fake passports are most probably connected, but that doesnt mean that they had anything to do with the plane going down .

Nobody is saying that they had anything to do with it, but in the absence of any data and the fact that nobody knows what did happen; sabotage is one of the prime suspects, and until that prospect is eliminated, it will remain at or near the top of the list....connect that with the fact that people intent on sabotaging an AC are likely to use fake documents....and you have the makings of a reasonable theory....
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:02 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Stolen passports

Interpol confirmed it knew about the stolen passports but said no authorities checked its vast databases on stolen documents before the Boeing jetliner departed Saturday from Kuala Lumpur en route to Beijing with 239 people on board.

Warning "only a handful of countries" routinely make such checks, Interpol secretary general Ronald Noble chided authorities for "waiting for a tragedy to put prudent security measures in place at borders and boarding gates."



The thefts of the two passports one belonging to Austrian Christian Kozel and the other to Luigi Maraldi of Italy were entered into Interpol's database after they were stolen in Thailand in 2012 and last year, the police body said. But no authorities in Malaysia or elsewhere checked the passports against the database of 40 million stolen or lost travel documents before the Malaysian Airlines plane took off.

In a forceful statement, the Interpol chief, who has called passport fraud one of the world's greatest threats, said he hoped "that governments and airlines worldwide will learn from the tragedy."



"Now, we have a real case where the world is speculating whether the stolen passport holders were terrorists," Noble said. "Interpol is asking why only a handful of countries worldwide are taking care to make sure that persons possessing stolen passports are not boarding international flights."


So here we have a resource which would seem to be fundamental to air travel security and most countries/airlines don't even bother their ass using it......
However, all Western countries still allow flights from these countries that don't carry out these checks, would be a simple rule to enforce ?
It wouldnt be possible to enforce , unless you have to entirely unconnected airport , airline and flight systems .
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:34 PM   #162 (permalink)
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I don't understand the point you are tying to make.
The two are obviously travelling together, criminals of some sort need to travel, go to the local stolen passport guy who sells them two passports from his stash.
Then they buy tickets and go.....
Sometimes the simplest answers are best.
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:43 PM   #163 (permalink)
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.connect that with the fact that people intent on sabotaging an AC are likely to use fake documents....and you have the makings of a reasonable theory....

I would think they would be less likely to use fake docs. It would be just one more thing that could trip them up and expose the plot.


And the longer it goes without a terror group claiming they did it, the less likely it seems...
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:54 PM   #164 (permalink)
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The Plane turning around enroute .
No wreckage found .
No one claiming responsibility .
Malaysia Airlines have previously been reprimanded to lack of fuel .
I reckon that the Aeroplane just ran out of fuel .
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:01 PM   #165 (permalink)
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I suspect that by checking if/how often the fake passports were used prior to this flight with a process of elimination with the true holders, it may possibly lead to some interesting facts concerning the activities of those involved.

That's if anyone in the aviation industry can be assed to check of course. The NTSB (US) apparently are now on the case so probably things will start to move forward instead of the usual pontificating
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:02 PM   #166 (permalink)
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.connect that with the fact that people intent on sabotaging an AC are likely to use fake documents....and you have the makings of a reasonable theory....

I would think they would be less likely to use fake docs. It would be just one more thing that could trip them up and expose the plot.


And the longer it goes without a terror group claiming they did it, the less likely it seems...
I agree that's a good point, if you are going to blow yourself up then why take the risk of using a stolen passport.....

No honour amongst terror groups these days, they don't claim their works like they used to.....
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:07 PM   #167 (permalink)
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Malaysia Airlines have previously been reprimanded to lack of fuel .
I reckon that the Aeroplane just ran out of fuel .
ROFL.

The pilots would have noticed long before the plane went down, and anyway there would have been time to send messages since the plane would have been able to glide for some time.

I imagine one of the pre-flight checks concerns the quantity of fuel on board.
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:17 PM   #168 (permalink)
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.connect that with the fact that people intent on sabotaging an AC are likely to use fake documents....and you have the makings of a reasonable theory....

I would think they would be less likely to use fake docs. It would be just one more thing that could trip them up and expose the plot.


And the longer it goes without a terror group claiming they did it, the less likely it seems...

Fair points.....but if they were already flagged as "criminals" or "terrorists" somewhere, they would need to use stolen documents to stay of the "radar".

Also, they would not have to be part of a known group. There have been cases of suicide bombings and other "terror" activities carried out by solo artists or small un-affiliated units.

Sabotage is only one of many possible causes and there is no real evidence of it in this case; but it's a distinct possibility and it's high on the list of possible causes, until it can be shown otherwise. It has to be, because there is no real evidence of any other cause either....
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:30 PM   #169 (permalink)
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As I mentioned yesterday I read the Melbourne and Brisbane newspapers online each morning and this morning they mentioned the fact that there were 5 passengers that checked in and didnt board the plane so their bags were removed from the flight before takeoff. The authorities are investigating this occurance. I can understand a procedure that would ensure no unaccompanied bags as this would make it just too easy for terrorists and drug smugglers - allowing for the fact that there would be noone to pick up from the destination.. I reckon that it is an interesting circumstance that someone would simply check in then not board let alone 5 people doing this.........surely this doesnt happen often
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:56 PM   #170 (permalink)
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Terrorism is possible. Find someone willing to blow themselves up for the cause. Get on a big suitcase full of explosives undetected. To do that only one volunteer needed so why 2?

More probable the 2 passengers were given the passports by an organization in the business getting folks into Europe illegally. Guess it successfully happens often using stolen passports. This time they were on the wrong plane at the wrong time so the stolen passports are a big issue.
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:59 PM   #171 (permalink)
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I wonder how much damage this will cause an airline. Fukked if I'd wanna fly with anyone who doesn't check passports.
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:59 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Another possible explanation for the plane turning around and not making contact with the ground could be that theb two passengers were indeed terrorists who had gotton into the cockpit with the intention of taking ovee the plane and using it as a weapon to attack a target, 9/11 style .
They may have simple not been able to fly the plane and crashed it accidentally into the sea

That would be a possible explanation amongst many......it can't be ruled out... as terrorism/hijack has been mentioned several times already.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:06 PM   #173 (permalink)
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I wonder how much damage this will cause an airline. Fukked if I'd wanna fly with anyone who doesn't check passports.

That's the immigration services job, not the airlines'.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:24 PM   #174 (permalink)
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I reckon that it is an interesting circumstance that someone would simply check in then not board let alone 5 people doing this.........surely this doesnt happen often
You would think so, but on a BA flight from Heathrow to Paris my plane was delayed by more than an hour while luggage was removed due to a group of passengers not showing. I was livid and took the train on future occasions.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:25 PM   #175 (permalink)
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The 2 passports could be bad luck. Illegal immigrants buy stolen passports, enroute to Europe. That no mayday call was made, Would lead you to believe that something catastrophic or premeditated happened.

The poor families still held in limbo. Knowing the worst, but not knowing, sheer torture.
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