Thread: Contact lost with Malaysia Plane.

What boils my urine is wtf did the Chinese and Malaysians do apart from bully relatives, avoid questions send texts and token gesture's of assistance!
It was the small populas countries of England and Australia that have done all the crucial leg work.

CCC

Reality is the authorities want to stop the financial bleed and will use the Imarsat statement to wrap up a futile , misguided search .

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Find one thing rather strange, if as we have been told, transponders and ACARS were switched off, why's the ACARS still signaling the satillite.

Not ACARS transmitting, but as I saw reported just a small device, could be on the top of a car for satellite reception that kept on transmitting. It seems they used the old fashioned way and came up with the theory by using trigonometry. Some interesting reports on that.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Find one thing rather strange, if as we have been told, transponders and ACARS were switched off, why's the ACARS still signaling the satillite.

The system us designed to always maintain contact with the satellite.
The pilot can turn off the sending of information, but not the underlying handshake, something he was probably unaware of.

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by pickel

New Imarsat data says last contact with plane was definitely in the Southern Indian Ocean.

dispute definately , agree with high probability .

Their words, not mine.

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by Thormaturge

More prosaically, Inmarsat's systems enable passengers to make calls from their seats and also to use Wi-Fi and connect to the internet while flying.

So why do they stick to this 19th century technology black box? Just send all the flight data and pilot conversation in real time to Inmarsat, problem solved. Might cost a quid or two, but can't be more expensive for many years than the current search for a missing jet.

Worldwide, how many flights per year?
How many go missing?

Additionally, planes aren't cars, you don;t just pick up a new one every few years.
Retrofitting planes is expensive, a lot of the planes in the air are 10, 20+ years old.

Originally Posted by Mid

Reality is the authorities want to stop the financial bleed and will use the Imarsat statement to wrap up a futile , misguided search .

Futile, misguided?

How so? It is based on the only information they have.

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Find one thing rather strange, if as we have been told, transponders and ACARS were switched off, why's the ACARS still signaling the satillite.

The system us designed to always maintain contact with the satellite.
The pilot can turn off the sending of information, but not the underlying handshake, something he was probably unaware of.

Well put. The ping versus data transmission has been explained almost to the point of ad nauseum, but still, a lot of folks still don't seem to get it.

The use of those "ping" signals to develop a "track" was quite a brilliant piece of work by the satellite engineers. Never been done before apparently.

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by pickel

New Imarsat data says last contact with plane was definitely in the Southern Indian Ocean.

dispute definately , agree with high probability .

What's baffling is if that they had Imarsat contact from the day that the story broke....[??] - if the plane was being tracked initially, the authorities would have known the 777 changed it's course dramatically from it's scheduled route, yes?

How is it that they knew where it ended up [actually they don't know], yet were unaware of it's whereabouts two hours into the flight....??

Originally Posted by Necron99

How so?

8 or so wasted days in the beginning , Imarsat info initally ignored and on it goes .

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

What's baffling is if that they had Imarsat contact from the day that the story broke....[??] - if the plane was being tracked initially, the authorities would have known the 777 changed it's course dramatically from it's scheduled route, yes? How is it that they knew where it ended up [actually they don't know], yet were unaware of it's whereabouts two hours into the flight....??

This was an analyzing effort never done before. It was done by Inmarsat people on their own after it was established the search came up blank.

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by Necron99

How so?

8 or so wasted days in the beginning , Imarsat info initally ignored and on it goes .

It wan't ignored.
Inmarsat is a corporation, it's likely not run by technicians. They would have had someone check logs who said truthfully that no data was sent.
Then the sort of nerd people generally avoid in the cafe let it be known that it still pings. Those records probably are not readily accessible from their in house O/S. It took time to dig them out of the underlying data.
They system has zero native capability to track a plane that isn't sending data.
Then some nerdy boffin down in the basement had a thought about antenna angles, signal strength, doppler shift etc and got out his slide rule. Turning that "hey, what if" into a probable location AND having the math and technical side of it verified has taken time.

March 24, 2014

Inmarsat knew the day after MH370's disappearance that it was likely to have flown along one of two "corridors" that later became the focus of the investigation, but vital resources were expended on looking in the wrong places because of a seeming breakdown in communications.

Exactly what went wrong, and who was to blame, remained unclear last night, but both the British and Malaysian authorities must brace themselves for a barrage of uncomfortable questions from loved ones of the dead.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news...-30121416.html

Originally Posted by Mid

both the British and Malaysian authorities must brace themselves for a barrage of uncomfortable questions from loved ones of the dead.

No doubt the sensationalist media will be trying to whip up sentiment and point fingers. The satellite engineers did something far beyond the understanding of most people....ground breaking stuff in fact, but the media...always wanting to flaunt the "human" aspect of the story will be bombarding us with photos of distraught relatives. That sells....spherical trig calculation are pretty tedious stuff for front page news....

Relatives protest at M'sia embassy
25/03/2014

Scores of angry relatives of the Chinese passengers aboard Flight MH370 set out on a protest march to the Malaysian embassy in Beijing Tuesday to demand more answers about the crashed plane's fate.


Grieving Chinese relatives of passengers on flight MH370 console each other after being told of their deaths at the Metro Park Lido Hotel in Beijing on Monday.

Around 200 family members, some in tears, linked arms and shouted slogans including "The Malaysian government are murderers" and "We want our relatives back".

The embassy is about four kilometres from the Lido Hotel, where meetings have been taking place throughout the drama. A new chapter opened late on Monday when Malaysia said the plane had crashed in the Indian Ocean.

Chinese authorities normally keep a very tight rein on any protests in Beijing. Scores of black-clad uniformed police officers were blocking traffic at the diplomatic mission, their walkie-talkies abuzz.

A relative who refused to give his name, but who has been one of the unofficial leaders of the Flight MH370 group, told AFP that the police "would have known" about the demonstration.

"We are still discussing with the police what we are going to do," he told AFP. "Maybe they are preparing for us to arrive."

Earlier, the relatives boarded large shuttle buses bringing them from various hotels to the Lido, intending to take them to the diplomatic mission, but dozens of police surrounded the vehicles and prevented them from driving off, leading them to march instead.

"We are going to protest at the Malaysian embassy," one man told AFP as he joined some 200 other relatives to board the buses at the hotel where they had gathered throughout the 17-day ordeal.

One family member was holding a loudspeaker and urging journalists to head to the embassy, while others stood in a group, sombre and motionless, many holding pre-prepared printed placards and wearing "Pray for MH370" T-shirts.

"We want our families," read one placard. Others read "Son: mother and father's heart is broken, hurry home" and "Husband, hurry home. What am I and our son going to do?"

The protest did not appear to be spontaneous, as at least a dozen police cars were waiting nearby at the Lido.

The officers were standing in a row behind a sign reading: "Traffic restrictions, vehicles take a circular route." A policeman refused to say why the traffic restrictions had been imposed when asked by an AFP reporter.

The move to protest outside the embassy came hours after relatives reacted with grief and anguish as Malaysia confirmed their worst fears about the flight.

In dramatic scenes at the Lido Hotel, stretcher-bearing paramedics were drafted in to tend to family members devastated by the news, with at least two people carried out.

China has demanded that Kuala Lumpur hand over the satellite data which led it to conclude that the Beijing-bound Malaysia Airlines flight crashed at sea and that none of the 239 people aboard survived. Two-thirds of the passengers were Chinese.

bangkokpost.com

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

wtf did the Chinese and Malaysians do apart from bully relatives

Malaysians bullied relatives??? Pray tell . . . and source

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

It was the small populas countries of England and Australia that have done all the crucial leg work.

Yet again Oh, and the population of
Malaysia 29 million
Australia 23 million
UK 63 million

You seem to have a very Anglo-centric worldview

Yet again - where have the UK and Oz done ALL the crucial leg work?

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Just send all the flight data and pilot conversation in real time to Inmarsat, problem solved. Might cost a quid or two, but can't be more expensive for many years than the current search for a missing jet.

Seems logical

Chinese relatives promise 'revenge'
25/03/2014

BEIJING - Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak announced new evidence indicating that Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 had crashed in the Indian Ocean, with no chance of survivors among the 239 passengers and crew.

The families of the 157 Chinese passengers on board MH370 released a joint statement - apparently unanimous - charging the Malaysian government with making its statement "without any direct evidence that MH370 crashed in the south Indian ocean and no people survived."

The statement continued:

From March 8 when they announced that MH370 lost contact to today, 18 days have passed during which the Malaysian government and military constantly tried to delay, deceive the passengers' families and cheat the whole world.

This shameless behaviour not only fooled and hurt the families of the 154 passengers but also misguided and delayed rescue actions, wasting a large quantity of human resources and materials and lost valuable time for the rescue effort.

If the 154 passengers did lose their lives, Malaysia Airlines, the Malaysian government and military are the real executioners who killed them.

We the families of those on board submit our strongest protest against them. We will take every possible means to pursue the unforgivable crimes and responsibility of all three.

bangkokpost.com

Originally Posted by koman

Originally Posted by Mid

both the British and Malaysian authorities must brace themselves for a barrage of uncomfortable questions from loved ones of the dead.

No doubt the sensationalist media will be trying to whip up sentiment and point fingers. The satellite engineers did something far beyond the understanding of most people....ground breaking stuff in fact, but the media...always wanting to flaunt the "human" aspect of the story will be bombarding us with photos of distraught relatives. That sells....spherical trig calculation are pretty tedious stuff for front page news....

telling that you chose to ignore the first paragraph ...........................

Originally Posted by Mid

March 24, 2014

Inmarsat knew the day after MH370's disappearance that it was likely to have flown along one of two "corridors" that later became the focus of the investigation, but vital resources were expended on looking in the wrong places because of a seeming breakdown in communications.

Exactly what went wrong, and who was to blame, remained unclear last night, but both the British and Malaysian authorities must brace themselves for a barrage of uncomfortable questions from loved ones of the dead.

Why we may never find out what happened to MH370 - Independent.ie

An article citing;

The most likely explanation for the delays appears to be distrust between Malaysia and the other countries involved in the search, according to experts.

And also referring to a NY Times article which cites;

The American investigators believe that the Malaysian government was reluctant to share information with them because they fear exposing their weak radar and satellite systems.


While the Inmarsat website hosts a link to the Washington post which says....

"The Malaysians apparently didn't receive Inmarsat's analysis until Wednesday, March 12. Quite why it took so long to be channeled through the British and American governments is an open question. But even after the Malaysians got the data, it then took another three days for the information to be released -- and then only partially."

After being the plane could be anywhere from Kyrgyzstan to Antarctica getting it verified while they are still getting reports of liferafts, radar etc does not seem unreasonable....

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

wtf did the Chinese and Malaysians do apart from bully relatives

Malaysians bullied relatives??? Pray tell . . . and source

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

It was the small populas countries of England and Australia that have done all the crucial leg work.

Yet again Oh, and the population of
Malaysia 29 million
Australia 23 million
UK 63 million

You seem to have a very Anglo-centric worldview

Yet again - where have the UK and Oz done ALL the crucial leg work?

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Just send all the flight data and pilot conversation in real time to Inmarsat, problem solved. Might cost a quid or two, but can't be more expensive for many years than the current search for a missing jet.

Seems logical

Finalizing the last known position of the plane was pretty huge in my view.

Originally Posted by Mid

the Malaysian government and military are the real executioners who killed them.

Whereas it's quite understandable that relatives would be grief stricken and extremely angry, you can't help feeling that the Chinese authorities are going to milk this event for everything it's worth.

The Malaysians did not exactly come across as highly organized or pro-active, but it also needs to be recognized that they were facing an extremely unusual event...with a great deal of confusing information or in most cases no information.

If this had been a Chinese AC full of Malaysians, what would China have done differently....likely nothing. They are notorious for stonewalling, secrecy and blaming somebody else.

The Chinese authorities will make sure this is vamped up to the maximum....it's great stuff for distracting the population from their own domestic struggles...and probably gives them considerable leverage with Malaysia in any future trade deals etc. They also know how to keep the western media well fed and fired up.

Having distraught relatives screaming "Malaysian murderers", and venting about revenge is right out of the playbook for that part of the world.

^ 2nd to last paragraph - spot on.