Thread: Contact lost with Malaysia Plane.

The guys with the stolen passports must have been shitting themseves.

Off we go to a better life in Europe and all this happens. Better than where we came from - right.

^ You havent read all the theories on here Patsy, have you ?

No, darlin, i haven't because this whole thing is becoming a total shitfest. How, in this day and age can a plane just disappear?

I read lots and lots and in the end, there is no information.

Apart from Kirk Cobain's drug addled brain widow.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

But various people did pick up radar tracks, that's why they shifted the search area to the Malacca Strait and beyond.

Who picked up radar tracks, Malaysian air force picked up a tract then retracted the statement.
No confirmed radar track from anyone, in an area full of commercial flights. Things getting lost in sea of maybes and unnamed sources.
Keep telling things and people start to believe the story.
Nothing I have read from a reputable agency puts the plane any where, but at it's last known position and that's no whee near Australia or Pakistan.

Air France Relatives Have Sad Bond With Malaysia Air Families : The Two-Way : NPR

Check out the video at the bottom. Kind of expected from a nation that hangs people for possession of an f'ing plant.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

But various people did pick up radar tracks, that's why they shifted the search area to the Malacca Strait and beyond.

Who picked up radar tracks, Malaysian air force picked up a tract then retracted the statement.
No confirmed radar track from anyone, in an area full of commercial flights. Things getting lost in sea of maybes and unnamed sources.
Keep telling things and people start to believe the story.
Nothing I have read from a reputable agency puts the plane any where, but at it's last known position and that's no whee near Australia or Pakistan.

But the Inmarsat pings put it West of Malaysia until its last one at 08:11am.

And if you actually look at the two flight corridors and the area where this debris is being investigated.....

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by leemo

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Roobarb, don't think the guy is right myself, just that he put up a plausible theory.
I'm still of the opinion plane went down in the area of last confirmed position, or crashed in the jungle in Vietnam.
Nothing, but maybes after that from unnamed sources.

Experts agree that planes ditching into sea generally produce lots of debris. As a layperson I would agree that no person or thing but the sea has any control over how a plane breaks up and what happens to the pieces. On this basis, as no debris has been found and it's not in the air, it must be on land.

If it crashed on land, someone would have seen it, whether from fishing or other local boats, villages, or whatever. I find it hard to imagine a plane could fly low, which people at ground/sea level tend to notice, and chance upon a magic miles-wide corridor through hundreds of miles of sea and miles of land, and then crash with not a soul noticing.

Next, back to my earlier question, why? Why should a series of highly unusual pointedly human-controlled events be weaved together only to end up bringing a plane down? Sure, that bit might have been inadvertent, either as an afterthought, an aborted op, a failed op, or even a genuine accident. But if those involved intended a crash whether over land or sea, though sea is preferable for concealing evidence, why not just take it down without the drama?

That's why from the available evidence I would guess it's on land, in one piece, flightworthy, and at least non-Muslims passengers if not all passengers are dead. Gun to my head says Muslims are behind it, Jihad is the cause, and intention is to use it as a missile against a Western target.

If this theory is correct, and it is no more than a wild theory, after such uncharacteristic impeccable planning and execution of the plane's disappearance, once it is decked out as a missile, delivery might be accomplished by switching with or otherwise masquerading as a commercial flight on a routine flight path.

Trouble I have with all the other theories is no confirmation, that the plane went anywhere.
Who says the plane turned and flew west over Malaysia/Thailand, this is an aircraft hub area, BKK, KL and Singapore, 1,000s of flights, good radar coverage, how many planes in the air at that time of night. All have their own radar, no one picked up an unidentified track.
To me that doesn't add up.

Plane radars are mainly collision avoidance devices. Limited range, and only good for planes with a transponder on. To detect planes with no transponder on is much more difficult and you are talking military grade radar, not civilian grade.

To me, both "pilot suicide" and "terrorist hijacking" are "statement" events. Not "what the fuck??" events. A terrorist "dry run" also, in my mind does not hold water. If it was a "dry run", lots of shit in airline security will change over this, so a dry run is poinless. I firmly believe that any terrorist organizaion that got hold of a plane would not ditch it is some nameless spot in the indian ocean.

The scenario where they have the plane intact, offed the passengers and are holding the plane in some secret location also does not make sense. If they are that "good", hijack a plane near your target, and do it first tme.


Sadly, the only scenario that makes "sense" is a desperately rare, unlikely accident. The best starting point I have seen is that of, "in the event of a sudden, catestrophic event, what would an experienced pilot do?" - and everything I have seen says the plane did exactly that.....


We might never know what happened, but some super fiendish, brilliant plan that some how ended up in distaster seems to me to be the least likely explanation.

An MH370 theory that was simple, compelling and wrong
Comments (548)
Anthony Zurcher By Anthony Zurcher Editor, Echo Chambers

On Tuesday a "startlingly simple" theory explaining the disappearance of the Malaysia Airlines jet began making the rounds on social media and among journalists interested in the story. According to a fellow named Chris Goodfellow, the plane caught fire, and the pilot headed to a nearby airport to save the craft, eventually crashing into the Indian Ocean.

Goodfellow originally posted his theory on his Google+ page on 14 March, but it picked up steam when it was reposted on the linking site Reddit. On Tuesday Wired magazine edited and ran the post under the headline A Startlingly Simple Theory about the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet.

Goodfellow, whom Wired identifies as having "20 years' experience as a Canadian Class-1 instrumented-rated pilot for multi-engine planes", begins with a dismissive wave toward the aviation experts who have been clogging the news networks.

"There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370," he writes. "Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; it's almost disturbing."

He says that he "tends to look for a simpler explanation".

He then theorises that a fire, possibly electrical or from an overheated tyre on take-off, sent smoke into the cockpit shortly after the crew signs off with Malaysian air traffic controllers.

The pilot executes a sharp left turn and heads for a nearby emergency landing spot, while turning off electronics - such as the transponder - in order to isolate the problem.

"Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time," he writes. "We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbour while in cruise."

A quick search of Google Earth gives Goodfellow a candidate: Pulau Langkawi.

"Surprisingly, none of the reporters, officials, or other pilots interviewed have looked at this from the pilot's viewpoint: If something went wrong, where would he go?" he writes. "Thanks to Google Earth I spotted Langkawi in about 30 seconds, zoomed in and saw how long the runway was and I just instinctively knew this pilot knew this airport."

All the pieces fit into place, he writes. The climb to 45,000ft? A last-ditch attempt to put out the fire. Where is the plane now? After the pilots were overcome by smoke, the plane continued on autopilot over Langkawi and headed west into the Indian Ocean, where it eventually ran out of fuel and crashed.

"Capt Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a hero struggling with an impossible situation trying to get that plane to Langkawi," he writes. "There is no doubt in my mind. That's the reason for the turn and direct route."

Goodfellow's theory continued to spread across media, both social and mainstream.

"I buy this new MH370 theory of an onboard fire," tweeted the New York Times's Josh Barro.

The theory "fits the facts" and "makes sense", writes Business Insider's Henry Blodget. "It requires no fantastically brilliant pre-planning or execution or motives."

The Atlantic's James Fallows agrees.

"I think there's doubt about everything concerning this flight. But his explanation makes better sense than anything else I've heard so far," he writes. "It's one of the few that make me think, Yes, I could see things happening that way."

Only it very likely didn't happen that way - as considerable information that was already in the public realm contradicts the story. By Tuesday evening, writers and commentators were picking Goodfellow's post apart.

"Goodfellow's account is emotionally compelling, and it is based on some of the most important facts that have been established so far," writes Jeff Wise in Slate. "And it is simple - to a fault."



"While it's true that MH370 did turn toward Langkawi and wound up overflying it, whoever was at the controls continued to manoeuvre after that point as well, turning sharply right at VAMPI waypoint, then left again at GIVAL," he says. "Such vigorous navigating would have been impossible for unconscious men."

And:

Goodfellow's theory fails further when one remembers the electronic ping detected by the Inmarsat satellite at 8:11 on the morning of March 8. According to analysis provided by the Malaysian and United States governments, the pings narrowed the location of MH370 at that moment to one of two arcs, one in Central Asia and the other in the southern Indian Ocean. As MH370 flew from its original course toward Langkawi, it was headed toward neither. Without human intervention - which would go against Goodfellow's theory - it simply could not have reached the position we know it attained at 8:11 a.m.

There still should have been a distress call, Greg Feith, a former National Transportation Safety Board crash investigator, told NBC News.

"Typically, with an electrical fire, you'll have smoke before you have fire," he said. "You can do some troubleshooting. And if the systems are still up and running, you can get off a mayday call" and pilots can put on an oxygen mask, Feith said.

Nine hours after its first article on the subject Business Insider ran a follow-up, with reaction from pilots.

Michael G Fortune, a retired pilot who flew 777-200ERs like the Malaysia plane, said it was unlikely the crew would have shut off the transponders to deal with the fire.

"The checklist I utilized for smoke and fumes in the B-777-200ER does not specifically address the transponder being turned off," he said. Another 777 pilot told the website that putting on oxygen masks would have been the first priority for the crew, preventing them from being incapacitated.

As long as there is no definitive word about the fate of MH370, theories - from respected experts and amateurs relying on a hunch and a little help from Google Earth - will continue to bounce around the internet.

Some will catch on and go viral, until they are debunked or overtaken by new facts.

BBC News - An MH370 theory that was simple, compelling and wrong

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Plane radars are mainly collision avoidance devices. Limited range, and only good for planes with a transponder on. To detect planes with no transponder on is much more difficult and you are talking military grade radar, not civilian grade.

An pilot I visited in the cockpit of a Singapore Airlines plane (pre 911 of course), told me all 'all aircraft have transponders, it's such a cheap piece of equipment'). That was way back in 1999, in case you are wondering.

Originally Posted by Dillinger

Sentinel Island is home to the Sentinels, a small tribe who is noted for vigorously resisting attempts of contact by outsiders and has inhabited the island for thousands of years. The island is completely untouched by modern civilization and its inhabitants kill any outsiders who try to get too close to their land.

Originally Posted by Dillinger

The Sentinelese even survived the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the deadliest in recorded history, with few or no casualties. Thought the tsunami killed more than 230,000 people in surrounding countries, it appears that the Sentinelese were able to sense the coming of the tsunami and escape to higher ground before it arrived

They also know how to keep an ecosystem as god intended



Smart fuckers I reckon.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

But various people did pick up radar tracks, that's why they shifted the search area to the Malacca Strait and beyond.

Who picked up radar tracks, Malaysian air force picked up a tract then retracted the statement.
No confirmed radar track from anyone, in an area full of commercial flights. Things getting lost in sea of maybes and unnamed sources.
Keep telling things and people start to believe the story.
Nothing I have read from a reputable agency puts the plane any where, but at it's last known position and that's no whee near Australia or Pakistan.

But the Inmarsat pings put it West of Malaysia until its last one at 08:11am.

And if you actually look at the two flight corridors and the area where this debris is being investigated.....

Confirmed by who, not the FDA, FBI or any western Government who has satellites, EU, USA, Russia , China or Japan.
Another unnamed source, when I see someone get up from a western Government say we have tracted the plane, will believe it.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

But various people did pick up radar tracks, that's why they shifted the search area to the Malacca Strait and beyond.

Who picked up radar tracks, Malaysian air force picked up a tract then retracted the statement.
No confirmed radar track from anyone, in an area full of commercial flights. Things getting lost in sea of maybes and unnamed sources.
Keep telling things and people start to believe the story.
Nothing I have read from a reputable agency puts the plane any where, but at it's last known position and that's no whee near Australia or Pakistan.

But the Inmarsat pings put it West of Malaysia until its last one at 08:11am.

And if you actually look at the two flight corridors and the area where this debris is being investigated.....

Confirmed by who, not the FDA, FBI or any western Government who has satellites, EU, USA, Russia , China or Japan.
Another unnamed source, when I see someone get up from a western Government say we have tracted the plane, will believe it.

WTF is tracted?

The one lead they are putting everything into is right on the money. But they haven't found the debris yet because it's covered in cloud and raining, and the objects have moved since a satellite snapped them on the 16th March.

Inmarsat have confirmed that the radius of the pings detected has a northern and southern corridor.

I really hope that the debris is from the plane, but until then it is open to question - but you seem to want any excuse to doubt it.

I've said it before.

Patience.

BTW the word is "TRACK". And the plane was never in the Western Hemisphere, so why would Western Governments be tracking it?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

BTW the word is "TRACK". And the plane was never in the Western Hemisphere, so why would Western Governments be tracking it?

Same question I have.

This is why they are taking this so seriously.

Ya But China and Russia have stuff that can do harm to "Western People" SO their eastern operations are closely monitored. Allies like Japan South Korea have to be protected so eyes everywhere. Carefull about peeing in the desert Harry, never know who may be watching your monical

What are you babbling on about? Have you been at the Lao Khao?

I don't think they are ever going to find this missing Boeing.

I spent many years as a crew member on maritime patrol aircraft, and have been involved in several search & rescue missions. I no longer fly, but still work as a navigation specialist with an air traffic organisation.
This aircraft is normally flown using automatic systems, which can be set up in different modes. It does not have to fly between programmed waypoints. I believe the satellite imagery of the 'debris' in the Southern Ocean has had its resolution intentionally downgraded for public consumption. I am sure the Aussies wouldn't have said anything unless they were pretty certain.
Searching visually from the air is very, very difficult - even with FLIR & radar, the signature of these pieces of wreckage will be weak. This is a wild bit of water, and it's a long way from anywhere. The Aussies & the Kiwis are used to this, and the USN P-8 is state of the art - if anyone can find something, they can.
As for the main wreckage, I would tend to agree with wasabi ...

Originally Posted by AVVICI

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

BTW the word is "TRACK". And the plane was never in the Western Hemisphere, so why would Western Governments be tracking it?

Same question I have.

Western governments have birds in the Eastern hemisphere

for example the Inmarsat bird over the Indian Ocean

(yes yes, Inmarsat is a private comp. but every legal aspect of that bird
and its position in GS orbit and the birds emitted power and its antenna diagram
and and and and has been coordinated and agreed with the countries in the bird's
footprint by the UK government)

One thing I wonder,
this Inmarsat bird have been pinging a plane for hours after MH370 went off radio with ATC
But, this pinging, is that a positive identification of MH370 or could the pings
be with just any odd plane?

Originally Posted by patsycat

The guys with the stolen passports must have been shitting themseves.

More likely praying.

^^ and ^^^The USA also have a spy listening post in Australia, near Alice Springs.


Pine Gap is certainly impressive. The high security facility is one of the largest satellite ground stations in the world. It controls and receives data from geostationary satellites that eavesdrop on a wide range of radio, radar and microwave signals. It also supports early warning satellites which detect ballistic missile launches.

There are no fewer than 33 satellite antennas at Pine Gap, 18 covered by distinctive white domes. The number of domes and dishes has grown over the past decade and there has been a major program under way over the past three years to refurbish and expand what is referred to as the ''antenna farm''.

While details of the US presence at Pine Gap remain classified, it is a matter of public record that the highly secretive National Reconnaissance Office (responsible for the design, construction and operation of US spy satellites) is present. Also represented at Pine Gap are the National Security Agency (the US signals intelligence organisation recently made notorious by the leaks of whistleblower Edward Snowden), the Central Intelligence Agency, and the US Geospatial-Intelligence Agency which provides imagery and geospatial intelligence to the US government.

Pine Gap | Australia At Forefront of US Spying Arsenal

At the time everyone thought George Orwell was out to lunch when he wrote his book 1984. We are way beyond that today.

Originally Posted by JayZee

I spent many years as a crew member on maritime patrol aircraft, and have been involved in several search & rescue missions. I no longer fly, but still work as a navigation specialist with an air traffic organisation.
This aircraft is normally flown using automatic systems, which can be set up in different modes. It does not have to fly between programmed waypoints. I believe the satellite imagery of the 'debris' in the Southern Ocean has had its resolution intentionally downgraded for public consumption. I am sure the Aussies wouldn't have said anything unless they were pretty certain.
Searching visually from the air is very, very difficult - even with FLIR & radar, the signature of these pieces of wreckage will be weak. This is a wild bit of water, and it's a long way from anywhere. The Aussies & the Kiwis are used to this, and the USN P-8 is state of the art - if anyone can find something, they can.
As for the main wreckage, I would tend to agree with wasabi ...

The southern oceans are a tough gig.

years ago Tony ballymore got stuck in a solo yacht attempt, he had sat coms, gps and an epirb. It still took two weeks to find and rescue him.

Depending if this is the wreckage, they will be able to gauge how far it has travelled since the Sat. picture was taken to its position when found. This should give them an estimate of the drift from the crash site. Roughly speaking about 1knot westerly current which would mean 240 miles to the west. Any floating objects which the wind moves will have travelled much further.

They only have 20 days left before the sonar pinger on the black box packs it in. Very deep and rough ocean. Unless "someone" has other Sat information, finding it will be bloody hard in the conditions as the Southern Ocean approaches winter conditions. I'd not enjoy bouncing all over the sky in a search plane and being in any type of surface vessel will not be a picnic.