Thread: Contact lost with Malaysia Plane.

^ You're in denial of the obvious again harry, time to see your psychiatrist.

Originally Posted by ENT

The Aircraft Information Management System (AIMS) will still function normally, either through executing a programmed emergency flight plan, or by opening an RF data link to an external source (via the Mode S Transponder) to receive direct, remote flight management system instruction, or an up-linked flight plan transmitted to the aircraft.

IFF Mode-S certainly contains a wealth of information about the aircraft and it does have a datalink to allow for two-way communication. However, it is not encrypted and I would have expected this to be a requirement (eg Mode 5).

The other little problem is that it would need to be switched on and the transponder was one of the items that was switched off, preventing ground stations from tracking the plane. Are you suggesting the Mode-S broadcast message was inhibited in some way? Surely there would still be some transmission activity that would be received by other ground stations as the "master" was controlling the aircraft through the datalink.

Originally Posted by ENT

In answer to your question, I don't know.

:GOBSMACKED:

Originally Posted by ENT

Are you saying that Acars needs to be switched on for BUPA to work?

I am saying the IFF transponder needs to be switched on for it to work as described and that it was switched off either deliberately or due to malfunction. Without the transponder it would not be possible to use the datalink in Mode-S, even if such two-way communications had been available. These services are not described in the doc:
http://www.anteni.net/adsb/Doc/9688_cons_en.pdf

Maybe whoever manually switched off the transponder and ACARS intended to avoid Mode S and fly the aircraft autonomously on another program.

When the ACARS was switched off in the cockpit, that disabled VHF and SATCOM transmission, but not reception, so ACARS was not completely switched off, power was still running through it and the aircraft was capable of receiving radio reception.

Wouldn't it be possible, then that in that state, BUAP, running on an independent power source, could be initiated by the pilot or anyone with a pre-programmed USB, or a cell phone with access to the autopilot?

Could the Motorola packet create an EMP if triggered by someone on board disabling all of the aircrafts electronics, ACARS, transponders, SATCOM etc?

INMARSAT indicated that possible power failures had occurred in the aircraft. Was an EMP a possible cause?

I have a question that's been bothering me.
If the power was switched off to the ACARS system, what was powering the satellite hand shake and if there was power for that signal why didn't the Rolls Royce monitoring system get the same handshake.

So, ENT thinks that it was a EMP that caused MAL to disappear

Originally Posted by jamescollister

I have a question that's been bothering me.
If the power was switched off to the ACARS system, what was powering the satellite hand shake and if there was power for that signal why didn't the Rolls Royce monitoring system get the same handshake.

Not good with Google then Jimmy?

Inmarsat’s role in the search for Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 began immediately after the aircraft disappeared. Although the main aircraft communications addressing and reporting system (which would usually transmit the plane's position) was switched off, one of Inmarsat’s satellites continued to pick up a series of automated hourly 'pings' from a terminal on the plane, which would normally be used to synchronise timing information.

Originally Posted by Fluke

So, ENT thinks that it was a EMP that caused MAL to disappear

He's better when he just admits he doesn't know. It's when he reads an article on the Internet that he suddenly becomes an "expert".

Originally Posted by jamescollister

I have a question that's been bothering me.
If the power was switched off to the ACARS system, what was powering the satellite hand shake and if there was power for that signal why didn't the Rolls Royce monitoring system get the same handshake.

Why is there still a red light on when you turn off your TV?

The imarsat pings were the underlying hardware saying hello.
Access to that hardware for all the planes systems had been turned off.

N99 switching the TV off and pulling the plug are not the same.
HB, if that's the case, what happened to the RR signal, would have thought if one worked the other would.
To my mind, easier to switch off the transmitters than power down individual systems, don't know much about aircraft design, I admit.
Maybe some one in the know can say.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

N99 switching the TV off and pulling the plug are not the same.
HB, if that's the case, what happened to the RR signal, would have thought if one worked the other would.
To my mind, easier to switch off the transmitters than power down individual systems, don't know much about aircraft design, I admit.
Maybe some one in the know can say.

RR got 2 data bursts from the flight and none after the systems were disabled.

Here's another question, this is a FAA cut and paste, sure Malaysia, Vietnam work to a similar time table.




U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION
Air Traffic Organization Policy

ORDER
JO 7110.65V
Effective Date:
April 3, 2014


Subject: Air Traffic Control
Includes: Change 1 dated 7/24/14 with Errata
Section 3. Overdue Aircraft

10-3-1. OVERDUE AIRCRAFT

a. Consider an aircraft to be overdue, initiate the procedures stated in this section and issue an ALNOT when neither communications nor radar contact can be established and 30 minutes have passed since:

NOTE-
The procedures in this section also apply to an aircraft referred to as “missing” or “unreported.”

1. Its ETA over a specified or compulsory reporting point or at a clearance limit in your area.

2. Its clearance void time.

b. If you have reason to believe that an aircraft is overdue prior to 30 minutes, take the appropriate action immediately.

c. The center in whose area the aircraft is first unreported or overdue will make these determinations and takes any subsequent action required.

So why no action from the authorities for so long, one would think, as soon as the plane went dark an alert would be put out.

Looks like a^se covering.

This was issued nearly a month after MH370 went missing.

Why is that a surprise?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

This was issued nearly a month after MH370 went missing.

Why is that a surprise?

No surprise, plane was not listed as missing until an hour after it's arrival time.
Passengers could have been in the water dying and no one thought to raise the alarm.
That's corporate manslaughter at the least, so there was a cover up, no matter what really happened to the plane.
That makes me think no ones telling the truth. or they knew where the plane was. Who told Malaysian air and air traffic control authorities not to follow standard procedures.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

This was issued nearly a month after MH370 went missing.

Why is that a surprise?

No surprise, plane was not listed as missing until an hour after it's arrival time.
Passengers could have been in the water dying and no one thought to raise the alarm.
That's corporate manslaughter at the least, so there was a cover up, no matter what really happened to the plane.
That makes me think no ones telling the truth. or they knew where the plane was. Who told Malaysian air and air traffic control authorities not to follow standard procedures.

Well the Vietnamese were quick to tell KL that the plane never checked in, and KL then contacted as many people as they could to try and find it on radar.

One can only assume that they exhausted everything before they declared it missing.

It also wasn't that long later (an hour or so) when they were told that it had been spotted heading West near Phuket, which is when they probably suspected someone had taken control of the aircraft.

By that time it was long gone.

Lots of things to learn from this incident even if they don't find the aircraft anytime soon.

If they suspected the plane had been taken at some point, but still failed to act, what does that say.
Everywhere I've worked has had emergency procedures written down, this happens, you do this. Those procedures were clearly not followed, no search, no fighters scrambled, no nothing until the plane was an hour late to land.
RR would have know, air traffic control would have know, IMARSAT would have known, Chinese air traffic would have known the plane had not entered their air space. Yet no alert was called by anyone, system is a shambles, or they aren't telling the truth.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

If they suspected the plane had been taken at some point, but still failed to act, what does that say.
Everywhere I've worked has had emergency procedures written down, this happens, you do this. Those procedures were clearly not followed, no search, no fighters scrambled, no nothing until the plane was an hour late to land.
RR would have know, air traffic control would have know, IMARSAT would have known, Chinese air traffic would have known the plane had not entered their air space. Yet no alert was called by anyone, system is a shambles, or they aren't telling the truth.

The system IS a shambles, it only works when everything is going well.
The moment the plane unplugged was calculated to casue the most confusion, having said goodbye to MAL ATC but not yet engaged with Viet ATC.
Then look at it from MAL's point of view.
First they have an Viet Admiral saying it splashed n the China Sea, then a report saying it landed in China after electrical problems, then an oil rig saying they saw it crash, then reports of wreckage off Malaysia.
Bogus shit coming from "unnamed sources" saying Rolls Royce was tracking it for 6 hours.
All those things have to be investigated and debunked and meanwhile the plane, after an hour or two was effectively untraceable until after days/weeks of work inmarrsat pulled a needle from a haystack in a way they have never considered possible before.

Trying to claim conspiracy just because you don't understand it with 10% of the actual information just makes you look like an idiot.

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by jamescollister

If they suspected the plane had been taken at some point, but still failed to act, what does that say.
Everywhere I've worked has had emergency procedures written down, this happens, you do this. Those procedures were clearly not followed, no search, no fighters scrambled, no nothing until the plane was an hour late to land.
RR would have know, air traffic control would have know, IMARSAT would have known, Chinese air traffic would have known the plane had not entered their air space. Yet no alert was called by anyone, system is a shambles, or they aren't telling the truth.

The system IS a shambles, it only works when everything is going well.
The moment the plane unplugged was calculated to casue the most confusion, having said goodbye to MAL ATC but not yet engaged with Viet ATC.
Then look at it from MAL's point of view.
First they have an Viet Admiral saying it splashed n the China Sea, then a report saying it landed in China after electrical problems, then an oil rig saying they saw it crash, then reports of wreckage off Malaysia.
Bogus shit coming from "unnamed sources" saying Rolls Royce was tracking it for 6 hours.
All those things have to be investigated and debunked and meanwhile the plane, after an hour or two was effectively untraceable until after days/weeks of work inmarrsat pulled a needle from a haystack in a way they have never considered possible before.

Trying to claim conspiracy just because you don't understand it with 10% of the actual information just makes you look like an idiot.

Not good enough, people follow the book, Malaysian airways lost contact with one of their planes.
Don't care what reports of an Admiral, or anyone else said.
Plane was out of contact, that alone, after 9/11, should have had alerts going off.
Something is not right, a plane crashing is one thing, a big plane disappearing in flight is a different story.
Sure RR monitoring systems, knowing a plane was in flight, suddenly notice their engines are off line, wouldn't have told anyone.
Vietnam, not having picked up a radar signal, one would think was a sign of problems, yet no alert for a possible downed aircraft.
Seems no one noticed a planes disappearance, or non appearance where it was supposed to be.

Nobody noticed nothing, not any radar, nothing,.... until the plane was long gone.

Bollix.

MISSING MH370: Pilot: I established contact with plane

'INTERFERENCE': Pilot in another plane was flying 30 minutes ahead of MH370

SEPANG: A BOEING 777 pilot, who was flying 30 minutes ahead of the missing Malaysia Airlines aircraft, said he established contact with MH370 minutes after he was asked to do so by Vietnamese air traffic control.

The captain, who asked to not be named, said his plane, which was bound for Narita, Japan, was far into Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to relay, using his plane's emergency frequency, to MH370 for the latter to establish its position, as the authorities could not contact the aircraft.

"We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace.

"The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53,) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot.

"There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end.
"That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection," he told the New Sunday Times.

He said those on the same frequency at the time would have heard the exchange.
This, he said, would include vessels on the waters below.

He said he thought nothing of it, as the occurrence (of losing contact) was normal, until it was established that MH370 never landed.

"If the plane was in trouble, we would have heard the pilot making the Mayday distress call. But I am sure that, like me, no one else up there heard it.

"Following the silence, a repeat request was made by the Vietnamese authorities to try establishing contact with them."


Read more: MISSING MH370: Pilot: I established contact with plane - General - New Straits Times MISSING MH370: Pilot: I established contact with plane - General - New Straits Times