Thread: The EU for or against

Originally Posted by Bower

De Gaulles didn't give a flying f*%k about the UK entering the EEC,

he is on record for saying he didn't want the UK for the reasons I gave before, and facts confirmed his fears. The UK can fuck off and I think they will eventually. The recent Snowden revelation is revealing the true nature of the UK, an unreliable 2 face partner.

and yes, he saw the US as the new Empire so he wanted independence from them, who can blame him, unlike the Brits who were just too happy to be fucked in the arse with a satisfied smile

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Hey Buttplug, the Queen is going to pay a state visit to France in June

so what ? she might be looking for some French actions,

be careful with Holland, he has the horns for everything that moves, she might end up in his bed and loving it.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Perhaps you should commemorate it by burning some sheep or something.

I am sure you guys could bring some Manchester fans and football hooligans to improve the festivities.

Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg (DPM) go head to head again, on the EU debate


Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage get personal over EU in BBC debate




Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg make their opening statements


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Nick Clegg has accused Nigel Farage of peddling "dangerous fantasies" in an ill-tempered BBC TV debate on Britain's future in Europe.

Mr Farage accused the Lib Dem leader of "wilfully lying" to the British people about Brussels' grip on UK laws.

He also claimed EU immigration had hit the "white working class" the hardest.

Instant polls said Mr Farage had won by a bigger margin than he did in their first debate last week.

YouGov's snap poll gives the debate to Mr Farage by 68% to 27%, while a poll by ICM/Guardian suggested 69% of people watching thought the UKIP man came out on top.

A YouGov/Sun poll suggested Mr Farage won their first clash last Wednesday by 57% to 36%.

The BBC's chief political correspondent Norman Smith said Mr Clegg was much more fired up than he had been last week, while Mr Farage had been more measured.


'Billy no mates'

Mr Clegg kicked off the one-hour debate - hosted by David Dimbleby - by accusing his opponent of foisting a "dangerous con" on the public by arguing for Britain's exit from the EU, telling the audience in the BBC's radio theatre "if it sounds too good to be true, it is".

He warned leaving the EU would lead to a 'Billy-no-mates Britain".

An early flashpoint was Mr Farage's support for Vladimir Putin over Syria.

The UKIP leader accused the Lib Dem leader of being "hell bent" on getting Britain involved in a war - but Mr Clegg accused him of trivialising the issue.



Mr Clegg and Mr Farage both produced leaflets during the debate



Mr Clegg also said Mr Farage's views on Mr Putin were reminiscent of a "pub bar discussion" - and that the Russian leader could have brought the conflict in Syria to an end with "one phone call".

Poking fun at Mr Farage, the Lib Dem leader suggested the UKIP leader would claim next that "the moon landing never happened, Barack Obama is not American and Elvis is not dead".

Mr Farage said the British people had "had enough of getting involved in foreign wars".


'Making things up'

He said he did not want Britain to be part of an "expansionist" EU foreign policy, claiming that the EU wants its own "army and navy".

Mr Clegg said this was a "dangerous fantasy that is simply not true".

The pair traded verbal blows over the percentage of British laws made in Brussels, with Mr Clegg claiming it was only about 7%. He also said the European Commission only employed the same amount of staff as Derbyshire County Council.

Mr Farage told the Lib Dem leader: "When I said yes to these debates I thought you would honestly make the pro-EU case.

"By saying 7% of our laws are made in Brussels, you are wilfully lying to the British people about the extent to which we have given control of our country and our democracy and I am really shocked and surprised you would do that."




Mr Clegg hit back, accusing the UKIP leader of "making things up to make a point".

The pair again clashed on EU immigration, with Mr Farage saying it was "good for the rich because it's cheaper nannies and cheaper chauffer and cheaper gardeners but it's bad news for ordinary Britons".

The UKIP leader said the scale of immigration over recent years had "shocked" the country and increased segregation in towns and cities.

But he said the worst social impact was that "it has left the white working class effectively as an underclass, and I think that is a disaster for our society".

The Lib Dem leader suggested that Mr Farage "does not like modern Britain" and that, in contrast, he was very comfortable with it.


'Crazy Horse'

Mr Clegg attempted to mock the UKIP leader as someone who was not a serious politician.

At one point, he brandished a UKIP leaflet - featuring a picture of a Native American - which he said suggests that if the British people ignore immigration, they will "end up on a reservation".

"What are you going to say next, that you are Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull?," he asked.
Mr Farage said he did not "recognise" the leaflet and did not "endorse its sentiments".

The Lib Dem later claimed the leaflet was distributed in Lancaster and Fleetwood ahead of the 2010 election but UKIP said it was not "official" party literature.

Towards the end of the debate, the UKIP leader issued a warning about the rise of far right parties in Europe, saying: "I want the EU to end but I want it to end democratically. If it doesn't end democratically I'm afraid it will end very unpleasantly."

He used his closing statement to make a pitch for votes in May's European elections, saying: "Let's free ourselves up and in doing so let's give an example to the rest of Europe.

"I know the people are behind this. I would urge people - come and join the people's army. Let's topple the establishment who got us into this mess."

Mr Clegg sketched out a vision of Britain's future in Europe entirely at odds with his Eurosceptic opponent in his closing remarks, promising "real remedies for the way the world is today not dangerous fantasies about a bygone world that no longer exists

"And that is why I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that we remain part of the European Union because that is how we protect the Britain we love."





Conservative leader David Cameron and Labour leader Ed Miliband declined to take part in the debate.

Tory defence minister Anna Soubry said Mr Clegg backed the status quo in Europe while Nigel Farage could not deliver the change the British public wanted.

In contrast, she said the Conservatives were "absolutely united in our desire to renegotiate with Europe and to have a referendum - and to trust the British people to make up their minds".

For Labour, shadow attorney general Emily Thornberry said voters were more concerned about "making ends meet" than the future of Europe and the party's focus was on securing a debate between Mr Cameron and Mr Miliband in the run-up to next year's general election

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-26843996

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

In contrast, she said the Conservatives were "absolutely united in our desire to renegotiate with Europe and to have a referendum - and to trust the British people to make up their minds".

There will never be a referendum - ever. Why? Because most people would vote to leave Europe and that is not part of the agenda.

^ I haven't yet seen a poll where the Leave vote has been greater then the Stay-in vote.

Why have a referendum anyway? Why not simply put it in the Party manifesto that, if elected, the Government will seek to leave the EU under the Lisbon Treaty. Why bother with the delaying tactics of a referendum?

Here is something related to the EU. Orwellian to say that least:

Secret Document: EU Plans To Forcibly Open All Safe Deposit Boxes

- EU wants to deposit crack (MMNews, March 31, 2014):

Secret paper: Brussels plans this summer to allow EU-wide open all the boxes by force. . Reason: In addition to cash tax evasion investigators also search for precious metals – EU Finance Commissioner. “He who has nothing to hide, you need fear nothing.” Green: “An important step toward tax fairness and social justice.”

Holders of safe deposit boxes in banks threatens Affliction. According to a secret .

Entire: Secret Document: EU Plans To Forcibly Open All Safe Deposit Boxes

Originally Posted by barbaro

Holders of safe deposit boxes in banks threatens Affliction. According to a secret .

This does cast a shadow of doubt about the veracity of the story

The EU for or against?????????????????

Greed, pride and stupidity will always impede the establishment of any global treaty.

It has been doomed from day 1 and will remain so until everyone regardless of their race, colour and religion realizes that to amicably and fairly work together is the only way forward for mankind.

Unfortunately this will never happen.

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Nigel Farage? An opportunist who appeals to those who like their words loud and bathed in generalities.
He makes his money by being in the very parliament he so hates and derides daily, yet does little to get the UK out of it.

He is the epitome of a hypocritical leech . . . expenses to the tune of 2million GBP anyone?

Exactly, if there is anybody we don't need in Parliament or anywhere else it is Nigel Farage. He has merely seen a bandwagon and jumped on it as has that other idiot Nick Clegg.

Originally Posted by barbaro

Here is something related to the EU. Orwellian to say that least:

Secret Document: EU Plans To Forcibly Open All Safe Deposit Boxes

- EU wants to deposit crack (MMNews, March 31, 2014):

Secret paper: Brussels plans this summer to allow EU-wide open all the boxes by force. . Reason: In addition to cash tax evasion investigators also search for precious metals – EU Finance Commissioner. “He who has nothing to hide, you need fear nothing.” Green: “An important step toward tax fairness and social justice.”

Holders of safe deposit boxes in banks threatens Affliction. According to a secret .

Entire: Secret Document: EU Plans To Forcibly Open All Safe Deposit Boxes

I highly doubt this is a true story, unless we are talking about criminal organizations in an identified criminal investigation

It does seem that the British public have warmed somewhat to Farage, more than the awfully smarmy Cameron and quite spineless 'I didn't realise I was in charge of the country whilst the PM was on holiday' DPM Clegg.

As a beer swilling, fag smoking, straight talking man for all people, he has been giving those MEP's in Brussels both barrels for the past few years and in doing so has improved his image no end to citizens who don't feel unified with the rest of europe.

Successive British governments seem to be way out of touch with the people and the Tories at least have recognised a threat come 2015.

Unfortunately Nigel's team members seem to be an assortment of gate crashers although having a third party putting in a serious challenge in the next general election can only be good for the down trodden public.

Interesting . . .

So get rid of Maria Miller and vote Ukip for an end to political hypocrisy and expenses greed? Not exactly. Nigel Farage cheerfully admits to his participation in the Great Euro-Gravy Train robbery to the tune of £2m of expenses since 1999 – far more than Ronnie Biggs managed from his 1963 caper. Some fellow-Kipper MEPs do even better, and all this on top of their £79k salaries in a job they all despise, especially the work bit. One was jailed for fraud (£36k diverted to cars and wine), another for benefit fiddling (£65k). That's an even higher proportion than Labour considering Ukip currently has seven MEPs, after losing six to pub sulks and defections since 2009.

Michael White's diary: Yes, it's Nigel Farage's United Kingdom Expenses party | Politics | The Guardian

Nigel is your typical 2 face Brit, what else would you expect ?

Farage's fiddling is tiny compared to the tory and labour pigs at the trough.

The EU is just a power grab by a non elected centrally governed junta. Left to run as it is, it will destroy all countries in Europe on behalf of the industrial and banking magnates.

Originally Posted by Troy

Why not simply put it in the Party manifesto that, if elected, the Government will seek to leave the EU under the Lisbon Treaty.

Because that would be just as worthless. Both of the main parties manifestos are basically toilet paper, and should be used as such. No matter which get in, nothing changes - business as usual with a different nauseating face as the front man.

If the British public do get an opportunity of a referendum it may be just a straight in-out vote.



EU's Juncker warns over UK hopes of EU renegotiation




A front-runner to lead the EU after May's elections has said the UK cannot challenge the union's basic principles if it wants to stay a member.

Jean-Claude Juncker said Britain may be able to regain some powers as part of a future process of renegotiation.

But the chances of success depended on what was asked for, he told the BBC.

Prime Minister David Cameron has pledged to negotiate a new deal with the EU and put it to a referendum if the Tories win the next election.

Both Labour and the Liberal Democrats oppose this approach, arguing that a referendum should only be held in the event of further powers being transferred from the UK to Brussels.

Mr Juncker, a former prime minister of Luxembourg, is a leading contender to succeed the current head of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, after next month's elections.


Migration

The BBC's Ben Wright said the identity of the next commission chief mattered hugely to David Cameron and his hopes for renegotiation.

Mr Juncker is the choice of the centre-right group in the European Parliament, he added, but Downing Street is known to be sceptical about the veteran federalist, who ruled Luxembourg for 18 years.

Launching his campaign for May's elections, Mr Juncker said he wanted the UK to remain part of the European Union and accepted it was not the only country wanting powers returned to national parliaments and for the EU to do less.

Mr Cameron has said he wants new rules to end "vast migrations" when new countries join the EU.

But Mr Juncker insisted the basic principle of the free movement of people could not be killed and said Britain could not impose its view.

In a timely boost for the UK, Germany said last month that any future changes to the EU as a whole must be fair to nations not using the single currency.

However, France has said re-writing EU treaties is not a priority for Europe in the foreseeable future

BBC News - EU's Juncker warns over UK hopes of EU renegotiation

The British are sore losers, if they want to renegotiate their exit, then I am all for it

bunch of silly wankers,

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

A front-runner to lead the EU after May's elections has said the UK cannot challenge the union's basic principles if it wants to stay a member.

Good

Originally Posted by Butterfly

if they want to renegotiate their exit, then I am all for it

Also good.

If - and I say IF - being an EU member is so unpopular among the population then the Brit pollies are doing heir constituents a severe disservice.

Either stay in and work within the system while trying to change it for the better . . . or fuck off.

Easy

Europe is a sinking continent. You have seen the movie Titanic? Now is the point after it hit the iceberg but they don't yet know it is going to sink.
UK, Nordic countries and the Netherlands are much better off without EU. Germany relies on mittlestand making door knobs, it is a great brand but just a matter of time when Asia finds out they do same quality half the price and at that point German economy will have great difficulty in adjusting with all the labour unions and laws. And besides Germany there is nothing more in central europe. End of.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

The British are sore losers, if they want to renegotiate their exit, then I am all for it

bunch of silly wankers,

You would hate to hear this...

research funded by the EU, by Brussels university finds UK is second strongest global power, after US.

Rule Britannia! Britain still second strongest, 'global power' in the world, says study -

France? They did not have the ability to move troops to Africa, but had to use British and American transport. If Hollande pisses off Cameron, their troops will have to walk to take the next flight with the tourists. That I call a bunch of...

Originally Posted by Butterfly

The British are sore losers, if they want to renegotiate their exit, then I am all for it

Belgiums!

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Nigel is your typical 2 face Brit, what else would you expect ?

Niger Farage is a politician hardly a typical Brit whatever a typical Brit might be.

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

Europe is a sinking continent. You have seen the movie Titanic? Now is the point after it hit the iceberg but they don't yet know it is going to sink.
UK, Nordic countries and the Netherlands are much better off without EU. Germany relies on mittlestand making door knobs, it is a great brand but just a matter of time when Asia finds out they do same quality half the price and at that point German economy will have great difficulty in adjusting with all the labour unions and laws. And besides Germany there is nothing more in central europe. End of.

so why you English twats want to hold onto it ? just fuck off and we will all be happy for it

Originally Posted by Gilbert

Belgiums!

A silly little non country. Even the Dutch dont want it back