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Old 15-10-2013, 11:24 PM   #276 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Lick
The US must raise its $16.7tn (£10.5tn) debt limit by Thursday or face default.
Isn't it up to the creditors to raise the debt limit rather then the borrowers?

Oh no, that's right, the borrowers have a money tree or printing press as it's called.

How long till folks see the absurdness of this?

tick tock tick tock.

Money Tree? Printing Press?? Do you even understand what the debt limit is?

The debt limit does not create new spending but allows the government to finance existing obligations already established by Congress.

The debt ceiling, legally known as the debt limit, is the total amount of money that the U.S. government is authorized to borrow to pay existing obligations, such as Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and disbursements for other programs.


The U.S. will run out of borrowing authority on Oct. 17, unless Congress agrees on measures to lift the debt ceiling. A lack of a deal to raise the debt limit by that date would leave the Treasury with $30 billion in cash to pay its bills.


Once that money is gone...



tick tock tick tock
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Old 16-10-2013, 08:32 AM   #277 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
People should disbelieve everything, in the old days the Romans had the gladiators to keep the masses amused. Today we have TV and the net, the peons watch taking one of the 2 sides, both combatants are there for entertainment, nothing more.

Who runs the USA, or most countries, not bought and paid for politicians, they serve others, whether they know or not.

GFC, who lost and who won, certain people not only made money, but more importantly gained more power over the world.

In the US, the Federal reserve bank has gained power, a private bank, run and owned by who. A bunch of patriotic Americans, or international groups.
Same groups that have been around for years, funded Stalin, Hitler and probably the Romans.

Don't think they care about a nation or it's people, just power and control. Jim
I am with JC on this. Most people just keep going with old "it's Obama's fault he is a shit POTUS" or "it's the Republitards in the GOP there all greedy dirtbags" when in fact they are all basically THE SAME. Not a single one of them are in control of anything other than THE SHOW for Boontards Low Information Voters and all people who still believe that their vote even matters.

How many times have we gone through this Debt Limit show? I have seen a few. Nothing ever changes it's just a show.
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Old 16-10-2013, 11:51 AM   #278 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by beazalbob69 View Post
I am with JC on this. Most people just keep going with old "it's Obama's fault he is a shit POTUS" or "it's the Republitards in the GOP there all greedy dirtbags" when in fact they are all basically THE SAME.
I see them as the same, with a few cosmetic differences. Both parties are in collusion on almost all issues.

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How many times have we gone through this Debt Limit show? I have seen a few. Nothing ever changes it's just a show.
There may be some show but it's getting close to October 17th. They have 1 day.

I assume they'll make some deal because of the consequences.

But then again....
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Old 16-10-2013, 12:58 PM   #279 (permalink)
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the latest plan - republicans hogtied by their teaparty brethren

http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/...59-HAmdt2a.pdf
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Old 16-10-2013, 04:15 PM   #280 (permalink)
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It would appear that the GOP are raising the bar even higher on the level of complete disregard they have displayed toward the american people.


Republicans raise grandstanding to an art form



Republican Speaker John Boehner failed to rally his party behind any proposal


As America stands on the brink of running out of money to pay its bills, the Republican leadership in the House raised pointless grandstanding to an art form.

More than that, in just a few hours they hit on a formula that flawlessly exposed their own division, underscored their leadership's weakness and highlighted the extent of their humiliation.

I read one far-right blog this week that claimed President Obama was a Soviet mole, planted at childhood.

It seems much more credible that the Republican leader John Boehner was the plant, sent here to damage the GOP by sending its poll ratings through the floor.

It seemed Republicans and Democrats in the Senate were on the brink of a deal.

The Republicans in the House scuppered that by announcing a plan of their own.

It attached three fairly minor concessions about Obamacare to a bill lifting the debt ceiling and reopening the government.

They couldn't get the votes for that from their own side. So they dropped all but one of the conditions. They wanted to make sure staff in Congress didn't get health care subsidies.

As a ransom note this doesn't amount to much. It was, I suppose, something they thought they might be able to sell to activists back home. Rather like a man who has been almost stripped naked refusing to remove one last sock, claiming his dignity depends on it.

But they couldn't get the votes of their own members for that either. So they announced "no vote tonight". That mean's Tuesday might as well have been cancelled and we are back to square one.

Guess what? The Senate is working on a plan. But they are running out of time.

How the House will react to any deal is uncertain. But I bet they embarrass themselves in the process.

BBC News - Republicans raise grandstanding to an art form
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Old 17-10-2013, 01:14 AM   #281 (permalink)
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At the eleventh hour it appears that a deal has now been achieved. How long until the american people witness more skullduggery i wonder?



US shutdown: Senate reaches fiscal deal




Democratic leader Harry Reid: "Our country came to the brink of disaster"


Republican and Democratic leaders of the US Senate have struck a cross-party deal to end a partial government shutdown and raise the US debt limit.

Their bill must also pass the House, where a small group of Republicans are expected to join Democrats to send the bill to President Barack Obama.

The bill extends the federal borrowing limit until 7 February and funds the government to 15 January.

It comes just a day before the deadline to raise the $16.7tn (£10.5tn) limit.
'Brink of disaster'



McConnell: "This has been a long, challenging few weeks"


On the floor of the US Senate, Democratic leader Harry Reid called the legislation "historic", saying it would provide time for Congress to work toward a long-term budget agreement.

The plan would create a conference committee of Senate and House members tasked with drawing up a longer-term budget deal.

"Our country came to the brink of disaster," Mr Reid said. "This legislation ends a stand-off that ground the work of Washington to a halt."

Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Mr Reid's negotiating partner, said he was "confident" the government would reopen and avoid default under the proposed bill.

The deal "is far less than many of us hoped for, quite frankly, but far better than what some had fought," he said.

"Now it's time for Republicans to unite behind other crucial goals."

Politicians, bankers and economists warned of global economic consequences unless an agreement to raise the US government's borrowing limit were reached.

The US Treasury has been using what it has called "extraordinary measures" to pay its bills since the nation reached its current debt limit in May.

Those methods will be exhausted by 17 October, US Treasury Secretary Jack Lew has said, leaving the US unable to meet all of its debt and other fiscal obligations if the limit is not raised.

It remains unclear whether the Senate bill can muster enough votes in the Republican-led House to pass before the 17 October deadline.

The House Democratic caucus may be joined by a smaller number of more moderate Republicans, analysts say.

"We're going to pass it in the House," Democratic House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi told MSNBC.

But no word has yet been offered on when the bill will be put to a vote.
'No winners here'

White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters US President Barack Obama hopes both chambers of Congress "will move swiftly" to pass the Senate agreement.

Asked if the bill, which contained few concessions to Republicans, represented a win for the Obama administration, Mr Carney said "there were no winners here".

"The economy has suffered... The American people have paid a price for this."

Hardline conservatives triggered the budget warfare 16 days ago, forcing the first government shutdown in 17 years by demanding that Mr Obama gut his signature healthcare overhaul plan.

An estimated 700,000 of the 2.1 million-strong federal workforce were initially told to stay home, having been deemed "non-essential" staff.

Most national parks, museums, federal buildings and services were closed, while pension and military veterans' benefit cheques were delayed.

Although both parties have fared badly in opinion polls during the political stand-off, Republicans have taken the brunt of the blame from voters.
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Old 17-10-2013, 01:23 AM   #282 (permalink)
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Good news,now I can sleep at night.
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Old 17-10-2013, 06:35 AM   #283 (permalink)
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Somehow, the Statist Media didn't seem to report on this whatsoever...

The House GOP Voted 11 Times To Reopen The Government But Senate Dems and President Obama Objected.
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Old 17-10-2013, 06:42 AM   #284 (permalink)
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As predicted a full Republican capitulation. They accomplished nothing but cost the country $24 billion. What a joke.

Last edited by bsnub : 17-10-2013 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 17-10-2013, 06:59 AM   #285 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
As predicted a full Republican capitulation. The accomplished nothing but cost the country 20 billion. What a joke.
One of the reasons (one of many) we need to vote out these RINO's. Spineless worms they are...
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Old 17-10-2013, 07:02 AM   #286 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Boon Mee
One of the reasons (one of many) we need to vote out these RINO's.
They are the only ones with any sense in your party.
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Old 17-10-2013, 07:33 AM   #287 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
these RINO's
what does that even mean anymore?

you know what kind of people you should refer to as a RINO?

Ronald Reagan
Richard Nixon
Gerald Ford
Dwight D Eisenhower

I think its opposite Boon... Its people like you that are RINO's... you and the tea party have little in common with Ronal Reagan & Ike's Republican party...
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Old 17-10-2013, 08:09 AM   #288 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Lick
At the eleventh hour it appears that a deal has now been achieved. How long until the american people witness more skullduggery i wonder?
See told ya all. It's just a SHOW. Happens everytime. Wait until the last minute to come to an agreement. Been using this tactic on TV shows and Movies since the beginning. Why do people not see through this lame ass charade?

It all plays out like a B movie or a crappy TV drama. Defuse the bomb right at the 1 sec left mark, Bad guy gets shot 1 sec before he shoots the hero, etc.

I mean really? They don't even try to fool anybody anymore. It's as bad as all the crappy movie remakes. Same old shit in a different box.
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Old 17-10-2013, 08:15 AM   #289 (permalink)
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Unbelievable.

Obama Fan Boys & Fan Girls Blame Bush For Obama's Shutdown!

The nice thing about being as dumb as a rock is that you have no idea that you are dumb. That allows you to declare your allegiance to Obama with pride, while blaming a past president for Obama’s shutdown maneuver. Dan Joseph takes to the streets of DC:



Boehner predictably caved, no doubt because the Statist Media had duped fools into blaming Republicans for Obama’s hardball tactics. Like you think these people would ever support Republicans anyway?
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Old 17-10-2013, 08:22 AM   #290 (permalink)
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Whew, another crisis delayed. How long before the new debt ceiling is reached so we can have another end of the world event?

Why not just eliminate debt ceilings instead of having them hanging around just so they can be used to create crisis. Surely in the world of borrow and spend policies debt ceilings are really quite pointless. Get rid of such nonsense I say.....just give an open spending facility to the economic genius that abounds in the WH and watch the country prosper like never before......
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Old 17-10-2013, 08:29 AM   #291 (permalink)
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Whew, another crisis delayed. How long before the new debt ceiling is reached so we can have another end of the world event?

Why not just eliminate debt ceilings instead of having them hanging around just so they can be used to create crisis. Surely in the world of borrow and spend policies debt ceilings are really quite pointless. Get rid of such nonsense I say.....just give an open spending facility to the economic genius that abounds in the WH and watch the country prosper like never before......
Damn right and we'll print money 'till we puke!

...wait 'till inflation rears it's ugly head - you know that's coming and we'll be emulating Germany of the '30's
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Old 17-10-2013, 08:36 AM   #292 (permalink)
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OBAMA WINS
Quote:
Republican party's 'humiliating' defeat raises prospects of lasting party split
Elements that used to bind Republicans together are now in doubt, split further by social issues such as immigration reform


Dan Roberts and Paul Lewis in Washington
theguardian.com, Wednesday 16 October 2013 23.47 BST
John Boehner shutdown end
'We fought the good fight. We just didn’t win,' Boehner told a radio interviewer Wednesday. Photograph: UPI/Landov/Barcroft Media
The Republican speaker of the House of Representatives, John Boehner, has a curious habit of pulling despairing faces when marching his divided troops into battle.

As he marched them back again on Wednesday, exhausted and bedraggled by their failed attempt to hold President Obama to ransom over his healthcare reforms, there is much of the same eye-rolling that characterised the start of their reluctant campaign. “We fought the good fight. We just didn’t win,” he told a radio interviewer.

But not all Republicans think they can shrug off the past two weeks just as easily.

Moderate senators Lindsey Graham and John McCain were this week practically begging Democrats to put them out of their misery. “We won't be the last political party to overplay our hand. It might happen one day on the Democratic side. And if it did, would Republicans, for the good of the country, kinda give a little,” pleaded Graham.

McCain, who opposed the risky House strategy from the outset, accused Democratic rivals of “piling on” in delight.

In the end, the terms of surrender could not have been more humiliating. Nothing remained of the Republican party's multiple demands for repeal of Obamacare, spending cuts, tax reform and environmental concessions. Instead, Boehner was left to rely on Democratic votes to end the shutdown and lift the threat of debt default by extending government borrowing authority.

Heritage Action, an influential conservative pressure group behind the Tea Party radicals, urged Republicans to focus on the 2016 presidential election. The Koch brothers, the biggest financial donors to Republicans, had cut and run last week, distancing themselves from the strategy of linking Obamacare to the budget. Senator Ted Cruz, who staged a 21-hour speech against Obamacare and only days earlier had been plotting with Tea Party congressmen in the basement of a nearby Mexican restaurant, slinked off insisting the fight would go on outside Congress.

For Cruz and the Koch-funded Tea Party groups, such defeats only strengthen their argument that it is Washington and mainstream Republicans who are dysfunctional, not them. Tim Huelskamp, a member of the Tea Party congressional caucus, summed up the mood of defiance. “I think the elites, the Washington establishment, have won the battle, but I think that we will eventually win the war,” he said after Boehner announced his retreat.

Asked if he meant the split in his party would separate “the wheat from the chaff”, Huelskamp smiled broadly, and said that was a phrase he often used on his farm, in Kansas. “People back at home realise not all Republicans are conservatives. And some Republicans are anti-conservative.”

But many mainstream Republicans fear their Congressional party has been dealt a mortal blow by the saga. Adam Kinzinger, a congressman from Illinois, summarised the growing frustration many Republicans feel toward their Tea Party colleagues over the damage caused by the shutdown and debt limit fight to the GOP in the polls.

“There are some people in my party that you cannot convince that this isn’t, somehow, beneficial,” he said. “I think anyone who looks at this and thinks shutting down the government is a great GOP strategy is probably at the forefront of ensuring we are not a governing party.”

Political strategist Chris Henick, a former adviser to George W Bush and Rudy Giuliani, predicts the party mainstream will also now look outside Washington to regroup, focusing on moderate Republican governors such as Chris Christie and the fiscal conservatism of younger congressmen like Paul Ryan to find new common ground.

“If there is a longer term strategy, at least into the second quarter of 2014, it will be focusing on Ryan and his growth strategy and taking a lead from the governors,” he said.

But many of the elements that used to bind Republicans together are in doubt, split further by social issues such as immigration reform and gay marriage.

“Mitt Romney used to talk of the Republican party as a three-legged stool based on foreign policy, fiscal policy and social policy, but in foreign policy there is fatigue after Iraq and everyone wants to play down the divisions over social policy,” added Henick. “Of all things the most consistent of the three has always been fiscal and economic policy, but this is where this battle has been fought – it's banged up a little bit, but at least it hasn't been sawn off.”

Some degree of internal bickering is normal between elections but if Republicans cannot succeed in sticking the economic leg back together, a more lasting split is not inconceivable, say those close to the party.

“As a national party we are going to be all over the map until we have a nominee that can pull various wings together and we won't see that emerge at least until the end of 2015,” added Henick. “It will be fractious; thinking we are going to be completely unified in the 2014 midterms is mistaken.”

Until then many will be revisiting history books and looking back 100 years to when Theodore Roosevelt split from conservative Republicans to form a breakaway group called the Progressive Party, saying he felt like “bull moose” on the run. “This could be somewhat like 1912 and the traditional wing of the Republicans could very well be the Bull Moose group of today with the Tea Party claiming to be the new mainstream,” warned Henick.
US government shutdown 2013 | World news | The Guardian
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Old 17-10-2013, 08:46 AM   #293 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Unbelievable.

Obama Fan Boys & Fan Girls Blame Bush For Obama's Shutdown!

The nice thing about being as dumb as a rock is that you have no idea that you are dumb. That allows you to declare your allegiance to Obama with pride, while blaming a past president for Obama’s shutdown maneuver. Dan Joseph takes to the streets of DC:



Boehner predictably caved, no doubt because the Statist Media had duped fools into blaming Republicans for Obama’s hardball tactics. Like you think these people would ever support Republicans anyway?
we all know it's Bill Clinton's fault Boon...
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Old 17-10-2013, 08:58 AM   #294 (permalink)
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What is truly astonishing to me as an outsider is how so many Americans on this board seem to think that just because the GOP is a complete clusterfuck of an opposition party right now, that somehow the Democrats and Obama are providing great leadership and government. To those of us on the outside it appears a bit like the old choice of being hanged or shot. The Dems "won".. and they are no doubt jubilant about such a humiliating victory over an incredibly sad bunch of losers, but what did they win exactly?.....

Has America reached the point where really bad governance is accepted as good, because it's better than really really bad governance?
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Old 17-10-2013, 09:08 AM   #295 (permalink)
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What is truly astonishing to me as an outsider is how so many Americans on this board seem to think that just because the GOP is a complete clusterfuck of an opposition party right now, that somehow the Democrats and Obama are providing great leadership and government. To those of us on the outside it appears a bit like the old choice of being hanged or shot. The Dems "won".. and they are no doubt jubilant about such a humiliating victory over an incredibly sad bunch of losers, but what did they win exactly?.....

Has America reached the point where really bad governance is accepted as good, because it's better than really really bad governance?
It all boils down to the seemingly ever-present LIV's in our presence. They refuse to educate themselves and instead become anesthetized by the siren call of Obama and his ilk to free shit...
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Old 17-10-2013, 09:09 AM   #296 (permalink)
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What is truly astonishing to me as an outsider is how so many Americans on this board seem to think that just because the GOP is a complete clusterfuck of an opposition party right now, that somehow the Democrats and Obama are providing great leadership and government. To those of us on the outside it appears a bit like the old choice of being hanged or shot. The Dems "won".. and they are no doubt jubilant about such a humiliating victory over an incredibly sad bunch of losers, but what did they win exactly?.....

Has America reached the point where really bad governance is accepted as good, because it's better than really really bad governance?
^ Nice fiction...

White House: 'No winners' in budget fight

Carney: 'No winners' in budget fight
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Old 17-10-2013, 09:45 AM   #297 (permalink)
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They refuse to educate themselves and instead become anesthetized by the siren call
We know you tea party folks must be the best ejumacated poepel un thuh plainat

I wish I learned everything from faux news!







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Old 17-10-2013, 09:48 AM   #298 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by koman
many Americans on this board seem to think that just because the GOP is a complete clusterfuck of an opposition party right now, that somehow the Democrats and Obama are providing great leadership and government.
Relatives and Absolutes.
Absolutely speaking, Obama is mediocre.
Relatively speaking, he's the Messiah.
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Old 17-10-2013, 10:26 AM   #299 (permalink)
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I wish a could travel into the parallel dimension where Mitt Romney was elected instead of Obama just so I could see 1st hand the utopian paradise that the USA would have become under the rational, dedicated governance of the GOP.
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Old 17-10-2013, 10:46 AM   #300 (permalink)
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Relatively speaking, he's the Messiah.
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

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How long before the new debt ceiling is reached so we can have another end of the world event?
Stay tuned. Rerun scheduled over Christmas/New Year. If you hated previous versions of this, you're really gonna hate the new version.

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Why not just eliminate debt ceilings instead of having them hanging around just so they can be used to create crisis.
Good idea. Get rid of it. Will force Congress to do their job. Congress makes laws and Prez signs them. When a law is passed the House has the responsibility to fund it. They want to reduce government spending, then they need to amend and pass budgets doing it.
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