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  1. #876
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    [QUOTE=misskit;3117203]
    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    One important facet of the preppers' mindset: Keep your best laid plans secret. Firstly, you don't want people thinking you're crazy, but more importantly, when society breaks down, anarchy is reigning, and people are dying in the street, the last thing you want is friends knocking on the door hoping for a sip of water and a freeze-dried cookie."
    Now we move from fighting the government to surviving when society breaks down, in our lifetime. This time by a bunch paranoid grown-up boyscouts. No harm there.

    Still, it is the same futility as arming against the government or stocking up for the sun outage. It's going to take a big group effort to fend against global warming or pandemic. No man is going to defend his little tribe against the onslaught of anarchy for more than a few days or weeks when his food runs out. Can't eat those guns.

    http://www.silverbearcafe.com/privat...1/prepper.html



    It doen't look like they will have to eat their guns after all.

    The Prepper Movement: Why Are Millions Of Preppers Preparing Feverishly For The End Of The World As We Know It?
    The American Dream


    In America today, there are millions of "preppers" that are working feverishly to get prepared for what they fear is going to happen to America. There is a very good chance that some of your neighbors or co-workers may be preppers. You may even have noticed that some of your relatives and friends have been storing up food and have been trying to convince you that we are on the verge of "the end of the world as we know it". A lot of preppers like to keep their preparations quiet, but everyone agrees that the prepper movement is growing. Some estimate that there are four million preppers in the United States today. Others claim that there are a lot more than that. In any event, there are certainly a lot of preppers out there. So exactly what are all these preppers so busy preparing for?

    Well, the truth is that the motivation for prepping is different for each person. Some preppers believe that a complete collapse of the economy is coming. Others saw what happened to so many during Hurricane Katrina are are determined not to let that happen to them. Some preppers just want to become more independent and self-sufficient. There are yet others that are deeply concerned about "end of the world as we know it" scenarios such as terrorists using weapons of mass destruction, killer pandemics, alien invasions, World War III or EMP attacks.

    But whatever the motivation is, the prepper movement is clearly growing. Today, millions of Americans are converting spare rooms into storage pantries, learning how to grow survival gardens and stocking up on everything from gas masks to auxiliary generators.

    Recently, the Salina Journal gathered together about two dozen preppers. What they found is that there is a tremendous amount of diversity among preppers, but that they also clearly share a common passion....

    It was a diverse bunch. All different shapes, sizes, ages, gender and political persuasions.

    Some were ex-military. Some never served. Some were unemployed, some had jobs. A few were retired.

    But they all shared a common bond: They call themselves Preppers, and they had gathered to share ideas, demonstrate various skills, enjoy each other's company and to put faces to the online names they use to disguise their identity.

    Never before in U.S. history have we seen anything like this. We are at peace and most of us still have a relatively high standard of living and yet millions of Americans feel called to start preparing for the worst.

    A lot of preppers don't like to publicize the fact that they are prepping. As the Salina Journal discovered, a lot of preppers try very hard to keep their prepping to themselves.....

    They are trying to keep their passion for prepping hidden from neighbors and, in some cases, employers who they said would frown on their association with such a group. Two admitted their appearance here would probably get them fired if their companies found out.

    Many people believe that it takes a lot of money and resources to be a prepper, but that is not necessarily the case.

    For some, the best way to get prepared is to radically simplify things.

    For example, a recent article posted on Yahoo Finance profiled a man that lives in his RV and that survives on about $11,000 a year....

    I had an apartment in Burbank and was the typical Los Angeles apartment dweller. I started to feel a strong desire to simplify my life. I had a garage full of stuff I never used, my closets were full, and I started to see that it was costing me money to have an apartment big enough to hold all the stuff I never use.

    My initial plan was to scale back and move into a smaller apartment. Before long, I realized I didn't need too much to be happy. I could fit into a small space. That's when the RV idea occurred to me. I was just sitting in traffic and an RV pulled up. I said, "I could probably fit in that thing." The more I looked into it, the more I realized how practical it would be. For what I was paying for rent in LA, I could own my "house" free and clear and not pay rent, and own my car as well.

    Other people make the most of what they already have. It is absolutely amazing what some families are able to do with limited resources.

    For example, there is one family that is actually producing 6000 pounds of produce a year on just 1/10th of an acre right in the middle of Pasadena, California.

    This family grows more food than they need and they sell the excess to restaurants in the surrounding area. You can see video of their amazing garden right here.

    Other Americans take prepping to the other extreme. For example, Steven Huff is building a 72,000 square foot "home" (some call it a fortress) in Missouri. Huff is the chairman of Wisconsin-based TF Concrete Forming Systems, and he wants to show off what his firm is capable of. Huff claims that this will be "a home that uses very low energy, as well as having strong resistance to tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, fire, flood and insect damage".

    In reality, what Huff is building kind of resembles a castle. You can see pictures of this remarkable "home" right here.

    But Huff is not the only one taking things to extremes.

    In a recent article, I detailed how renowned Texas investor Kyle Bass appears to be very well prepared for the horrible economic collapse that he believes is coming. The following is how one reporter described his recent visit to the 40,000 square foot "fortress" owned by Bass....

    "We hopped into his Hummer, decorated with bumper stickers (God Bless Our Troops, Especially Our Snipers) and customized to maximize the amount of fun its owner could have in it: for instance, he could press a button and, James Bondā€“like, coat the road behind him in giant tacks. We roared out into the Texas hill country, where, with the fortune heā€™d made off the subprime crisis, Kyle Bass had purchased what amounted to a fort: a forty-thousand-square-foot ranch house on thousands of acres in the middle of nowhere, with its own water supply, and an arsenal of automatic weapons and sniper rifles and small explosives to equip a battalion."

    Do you think that Bass is taking things too far?

    Well, there are other big names that are busy preparing for the worst as well.

    For instance, Robert Kiyosaki, the best-selling author of the "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" series of books is now a full-fledged prepper.

    He says that he is "prepared for the worst" and that he and his wife "have food, we have water, we have guns, gold and silver, and cash".

    So should the rest of us be preparing?

    Of course we should be. Our nation is drowning in debt, the U.S. economy is dying, the number of earthquakes and other natural disasters is increasing, and the entire globe is becoming an extremely unstable place. If you read my articles on a regular basis, then you know that there are a whole host of reasons to try to become more independent and self-sufficient.

    So what can we all do to get prepared?

    Well, in a previous article I listed a few things that can be done by most people....

    #1 Become Less Dependent On Your Job

    #2 Get Out Of Debt

    #3 Reduce Expenses

    #4 Purchase Land

    #5 Learn To Grow Food

    #6 Find A Reliable Source Of Water

    #7 Explore Alternative Energy Sources

    #8 Store Supplies

    #9 Protect Your Assets With Gold And Silver

    #10 Learn Self-Defense

    #11 Keep Yourself Fit

    #12 Make Friends

    For those interested in learning more about preppers and prepping, there are a lot of really great resources out there....

    *American Preppers Network

    *The Survival Mom

    *In Case Of Emergency, Read Blog

    *The Surburban Prepper

    So what do you think about preppers?

    Do you think that the prepper movement is going too far?

    Do you think that the prepper movement is not going far enough?

    Are there legitimate reasons why Americans should be preparing for difficult times ahead?

    endoftheamericandream.com
    Last edited by rickschoppers; 08-10-2015 at 12:39 PM.

  2. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    Why Are Millions Of Preppers Preparing Feverishly For The End Of The World As We Know It?
    Because they're idiots

  3. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    No, and I am not the only person who states the ambiguity of the Constitution, Amendments and Bill of Rights. This ambiguity is taught in all law schools within the US and is the theme behind any law writing. The Ambiguity of the Constitution > Southern National Congress https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalDi...ns_amendments/
    This link is about the ambiguity of sovereign states powers v federal powers.
    It has absolutely nothing to do with your assertion that the Constitution in general, and the 2nd ammendment in particular, was written in such a way as to be deliberately vague, in order that it might be liberally interpreted.
    Given the power and weight of the constitution and its ammendments, the exact opposite would be true.
    The underlying problems leading to these matters are social weaknesses within society. Far too many kids grow up with little or no parental guidance, drift into bad habits and suffer from poor quality education and low self esteem. Some will self harm, and others will use inadequate regulation and easy availability of guns to make their statement about what society has failed to do for them.
    The longer the country prevaricates over gun regulation and the mental welfare of young disadvantaged citizens, the more deaths will follow.
    Your interpretation of the 2nd ammendment is just a red herring which ignores the causes, and wishes to maintain the status quo.
    Selfish attitudes like yours will not solve this crisis, just prolong it.
    Chass, since I doubt you even read the link, I will post just part of it only to show that others believe that the Constitution is ambiguous. Before you rebut a link, at least read it first.

    "It was definitely the intent of the founding fathers to have ambiguity in the language so that it could be interpreted that more rights and power is placed in the hands of the people; the 9th and 10th amendment are both simple sentences, lacking any specificity, that state "we don't have time to write down every right; assume that the people have it."
    This can be advantageous in some respects; for example, any right to privacy you have is derived pretty much entirely from the 4th amendment. The 2nd amendment example you cited is another demonstration of that same vagueness in action.
    Whether or not this is a good thing depends on whether the courts have interpreted these rights in a way you agree with. In my opinion, the lack of any right to privacy is very unfortunate (not that the founding fathers could have predicted modern lifestyle); now we have the NSA collecting every single on of our electronic messages, and there's little we can do about it to stop it without paying money and ending up on some automated watchlist somewhere. Specificity might have helped in this case.
    But were it not for this vagueness, free speech might not be so free; there's very little we can get in trouble for for saying. Sure, what we can get nailed for will nail us hard, but the stuff anyone can spew out here in the States would mean jail time in a place like France, where hate speech is a crime.
    So, up to you whether it's advantageous or not. Some cases, sure, others, maybe not. The problem is that situations come and go, and with them moments where you would prefer strict interpretations and others where you would rather a looser interpretation."
    As it hapens, I did read the link. Like pretty much everything else you use to support the theory, it's an opinion piece used selectively to support your own choices.
    I don't have an issue with that, we all have opinions and choices, but dressing it up as imovable fact is rather disingenuous.
    You will also notice as I did, that most of your post is nothing to do with gun control, but refers to freedom of speech. How expansive do you wish to be on this thread? Maybe you just want to use distraction, like you did with the 'preppers' issue, in the hope that we will forget that guns are still killing people, and that is more of a societal issue than a legislative one.
    Keep moving the goal posts, but please try to stay on topic.
    Last edited by chassamui; 08-10-2015 at 11:20 PM.

  4. #879
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers View Post
    Misskit, maybe you need to come to the US and give lectures to all the nutters on why they are wasting their time. It seems your disbelief has made you numb to reality and possible outcomes for our future society.
    Why would I bother? I don't care what the loonies do.

    It seems you have been seduced along with the preppers by the Glen Beck/Alex Jones School of Paranoia.

  5. #880
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    Chass, I answer the topics that others throw out there. You were disagreeing that the Constituion was not ambiguous and I gave examples of how other Americans know that it is. Anybody who ever took a history class in the US would know this fact, but wait, you never took American history did you?

    Misskit seems to doubt that anyone in America is concerned about being prepared for whatever catastrophe befalls the US. Nutters is what she(he) called them so I posted an article stating there are at least 4 million "Preppers", probably more in the US.

    I believe I was on topic and even stated that I agreed with the thought of closer control of the mentally ill with regard to them being allowed to purchase guns and how the US HIPPA law would be an obstacle.

    I guess it is OK for other posters to wonder from the main topic, as you put it, but when I try to rebut those wonderings, I am accused of distracting. Make up your mind Chass, which way do you want it?

  6. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    during a time of disaster. Then there's SARS, global warming, increased food and fuel costs
    Yup, them theres deeeesasters arrite . . . when that there doughnuts is gitin increased prices that there's armaaagedoooonnnn

    Hang on, isn't it in the bible that the end of the world will come . . . and that it is a good thing?!

  7. #882
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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  8. #883
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    Misskit seems to doubt that anyone in America is concerned about being prepared for whatever catastrophe befalls the US. Nutters is what she(he) called them so I posted an article stating there are at least 4 million "Preppers", probably more in the US.


    She.

    No, I didn't doubt it. Just stated that what the preppers are doing is useless if they think they will survive a pandemic or anarchy more than a few weeks with a stockpile of food and guns. That is the nutty part. A fantasy.

    No different from people having stocked fallout shelters in their back yard during the Cuban Missile Crisis, now that I think about it, though I don't remember seeing weapons stock piled.


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  10. #885
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    ^ Lots of business catering to the super paranoid right there. BIG business.

    Back to guns.

    Stocking up on guns and ammunition to fight the US government is just as futile as stocking up on flashlights for a sun outage. It is just a gun fetishist's fantasy.

    Last edited by misskit; 08-10-2015 at 02:50 PM.

  11. #886
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Preppers are idiots. They're just pandering to Alex Jones, who raises their ire with a load of conspiracy shit peppered with adverts for 25 year food supplies, water purifiers, body armor and "magical herbs" that cure radiation poisoning.

    Gullible tossers the lot of them.

  12. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    the numbers in this article says it all,....

  13. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    American history
    Not really a very deep study is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    Pandemic preparedness Best Prepper Resources and Recommendations Page Daily Collapse Report: Economic Collapse, Police State, Prepper News - Blog
    I chose this link because the other one is already taking uo too much space and is equally irrelevant.
    I ask you nicely to stay on topic and you repeat yourself +++

    As far as the US Constitution is concerned I find it very difficult to believe, as you have described it, to be deliberately ambiguous in respect of the right to bear arms. I am yet to be convinced, despite my lack of American history, that the best minds of the time wrote that amendment with the deliberate intent to make it vague and cause it to be questioned, misunderstood or misinterpreted.
    As I said before such documents would need a clarity of purpose in order to make them credible.
    If you are able, without obfuscation to, demonstrate that the 2nd Amendment was written in the manner you suggest, I will reluctantly withdraw my opposition.

    If you mention any other ambiguities in the constitution, or preppers or other irrelevancies, I will assume that I am correct. This thread is about Gun Issues, please leave the other nutters for another thread.

  14. #889
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Go Bernie

    Bernie Goetz ‘The Subway Gunman’ 30 Years Later
    By Richard Feldman, President, Independent Firearm Owners Association, Inc

    New York – -(Ammoland.com)- Thirty years ago the inviolate right to self-defense and the battle over firearm civil liberties were joined in one of the unlikeliest of battle zones — New York City.

    Riding a southbound express train in lower Manhattan, a slight of build navy contractor rode that subway car into gun lore history — his name was Bernard Goetz dubbed — “the subway gunman” — defending himself and every other scared New Yorker to ride the underground.

    (Ironically, at the time Mr. Goetz’s naval contract was to protect all of humanity by creating a safeguard against terrorists stealing nuclear weapons.)

    In a scene eerily reminiscent of Charles Bronson in the Hollywood hit “Death Wish” four punks threatened and attempted to rob their victim, but enclosed within that graffiti encrusted rail car the “hare turned around and bit the hound” he fired his Smith and Wesson 5 shot 38-caliber revolver into his would-be muggers. The bumper stickers were everywhere in NYC – “Ride with Bernie — he Goetz ’em”!

    The crime rate in the dangerous subways plunged dramatically –– so much so the authorities even held back the numbers — the truth hurt too much.


  15. #890
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Bernie Goetz ‘The Subway Gunman’ 30 Years Later
    By Richard Feldman, President, Independent Firearm Owners Association, Inc

    New York – -(Ammoland.com)- Thirty years ago the inviolate right to self-defense and the battle over firearm civil liberties were joined in one of the unlikeliest of battle zones — New York City.

    Riding a southbound express train in lower Manhattan, a slight of build navy contractor rode that subway car into gun lore history — his name was Bernard Goetz dubbed — “the subway gunman” — defending himself and every other scared New Yorker to ride the underground.

    (Ironically, at the time Mr. Goetz’s naval contract was to protect all of humanity by creating a safeguard against terrorists stealing nuclear weapons.)

    In a scene eerily reminiscent of Charles Bronson in the Hollywood hit “Death Wish” four punks threatened and attempted to rob their victim, but enclosed within that graffiti encrusted rail car the “hare turned around and bit the hound” he fired his Smith and Wesson 5 shot 38-caliber revolver into his would-be muggers. The bumper stickers were everywhere in NYC – “Ride with Bernie — he Goetz ’em”!

    The crime rate in the dangerous subways plunged dramatically –– so much so the authorities even held back the numbers — the truth hurt too much.
    I doubt they held it back because the truth hurt too much.

    They probably held it back to discourage lunatic wannabe Charles Bronsons rampaging around the subway shooting on sight.

  16. #891
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    They probably held it back to discourage lunatic wannabe Charles Bronsons rampaging around the subway shooting on sight.
    Yup - 100% - Bingo

  17. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui
    I find it very difficult to believe, as you have described it, to be deliberately ambiguous in respect of the right to bear arms
    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui
    wrote that amendment with the deliberate intent to make it vague and cause it to be questioned, misunderstood or misinterpreted.
    Of course not, it's the most ludicrous post on here . . . and let's not forget that BM, rpeters, barbara also posted here so it's a big one.

    Did they also frame all other documents in avague manner so no-one cold be sure what they meant?

    Seriously grasping at straws

    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    the authorities even held back the numbers — the truth hurt too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    They probably held it back to discourage lunatic wannabe Charles Bronsons rampaging around the subway shooting on sight.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    Yup - 100% - Bingo
    Umm, how does your 100% - Bingo - gel with your previous claim instead of contradicting it?

  18. #893
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    ^ entirely up to the reader as to how they interpret the uhm... "claim".


    Gun control has been debated ad infinitum into its stalemate corner.

    Removing guns is as easy as removing drugs.

    Hell, we (the human race) can't even get rid of tabacco.

  19. #894
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    Hell, we (the human race) can't even get rid of tabacco.
    True, but it has been relegated to the fringes of society. Legislation paved he way for more and more laws controlling it.

  20. #895
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    preppers pass as normal members of society, with jobs and families and nice clothes and houses: They're just obsessively hoarding freeze-dried meals, water (and water-purification tablets), camping gear, wine and vodka, and laptops "in ammunition canisters," so that when Armageddon descends, they'll be all set.
    As the quote says, the "pass as normal members of society".

  21. #896
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Normal?


    PREPPERS…

    THEN… Bomb Shelters Then and Now

    On October 6, 1961, President John F. Kennedy encouraged all Americans to prepare for nuclear war with the Soviet Union by building bomb shelters. He said, “A fallout shelter for everybody as rapidly as possible.” In the same year, the magazine, Popular Mechanics publishes plans made by the Office of Civil Defense on how to build your own bomb shelter. The government even encouraged Americans to buy radiation detectors. President Kennedy, also in 1961 asked Congress for $100 million to build public fallout shelters. To this day, during renovations and excavations of older buildings, construction crews are finding long-forgotten fallout shelters, still stocked with food and water.

    Bomb shelters were not a new concept in 1961. President Dwight D. Eisenhower had a massive bunker built under the Greenbriar hotel in 1956. The bunker, big enough to house all of the Senate and House of Representatives, is still there. That year, the government paid for an extra wing built onto the Greenbriar to mask the giant undertaking of building such a large underground shelter. The History Channel has an excellent 10-minute spot on the bunker.

    AND NOW… Preparing for Disaster: CQR

    People getting ready for cataclysmic disasters by stockpiling food, water and, in many cases, guns are easy to dismiss as alarmists. But a stream of natural and human-created disasters has made so-called “preppers” seem less eccentric and more sensible. Even the Red Cross and government agencies recommend assembling emergency supplies and planning for disaster. Some preppers go several steps beyond — building rural retreats, for example, where they would hole up if society fell apart. To the more alarmed segment of the movement, a collapse of modern civilization is not so much a possibility as a probability. Overall, though, even the “prepper” label signifies a more mainstream, less politicized approach than the “survivalism” of the late 20th century. Meanwhile, politicians and scientists share some preppers' fears about the vulnerability of the national power grid and other vital services.

  22. #897
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    Chass, if I am hearing you correctly, you are stating that the 2nd ammendment was not written in an ambiguous manner. I tried to explain to you that the 2nd ammendment is, in fact, ambiguous. Staying on topic, please read the four articles who speak to gun control, but also state the fact that the 2nd ammendment is, in fact, ambiguous as many other ammendments.

    A Right To Bear Arms? Ambiguity in the Second Amendment - Howard I. Schwartz Ph.D.

    The Common Sense Second Amendment | Stephen Menendian

    Meaning of the Second Amendment

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/05/op...ment.html?_r=0

    I hope you now understand that the US Constitution is ambiguous and I will leave you with one final snippit about who is right and who it wrong with this regard.

    Which side is right?
    Even the Supreme Court, the final arbiter of constitutional meaning, cannot make up its mind about the proper limits of federal power. Child-labor prohibitions were ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1918, but upheld in 1941. In 1991, former Chief Justice Warren Burger said the National Rifle Association's interpretation of virtually unlimited Second Amendment rights was an obvious "fraud." In its 2008 Heller decision, the Supreme Court essentially adopted the NRA view. In the end, it seems fair to conclude that even great legal minds read their own political preferences into the Constitution. As Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story said in 1845: "How easily men satisfy themselves that the Constitution is exactly what they wish it to be."
    The constitution: What the Founders intended

  23. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hazz
    2nd amendment rights didn't have much effect on the outcome of these events. And to be honest i cannot see some gun toting american who's not got the bottle to walk out of their house without a gun down their pants is going to be much use when one if fighting the us marines.
    Retired gun-loving pharmacists who hide out in some Thai backwater spouting big words regarding tyrannical government . . . and he has the nouse to tell everyone they have no right to discuss US topics as they are 'innate' to Americans. (And has the audacity to tell us to look up the word 'innate' - which one does and it makes the pharmacist look stupid)

    So innate that a child born to recently naturalised Nigerians in Lagos has more knowledge of US topics than any non-American.

    Yea, scary folks'
    Sad thing is all that 'collateral loss', young tender american meat for the 2nd amendment grinder, in 'defence of the republic'. And it didn't work, the southern states were forced to stay in the union against their will despite their 2dn amendment rightsand its not like they have had a choice since.... And the army is bigger and better equipped that it was in the 19th century. you would be the indians and we all know how that ended.

    as for that american meat being a worthwhile loss, so that peppers can surround themselves with their lethal comfort blankets.... I don't think that would get much support from the american people... if they ever dis something as culturally divergent as thinking about it beyond a soundbite.
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  24. #899
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    Chass, if I am hearing you correctly, you are stating that the 2nd ammendment was not written in an ambiguous manner. I tried to explain to you that the 2nd ammendment is, in fact, ambiguous. Staying on topic, please read the four articles who speak to gun control, but also state the fact that the 2nd ammendment is, in fact, ambiguous as many other ammendments. A Right To Bear Arms? Ambiguity in the Second Amendment - Howard I. Schwartz Ph.D. The Common Sense Second Amendment[at]|[at]Stephen Menendian Meaning of the Second Amendment http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/05/op...ment.html?_r=0 I hope you now understand that the US Constitution is ambiguous and I will leave you with one final snippit about who is right and who it wrong with this regard. Which side is right? Even the Supreme Court, the final arbiter of constitutional meaning, cannot make up its mind about the proper limits of federal power. Child-labor prohibitions were ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1918, but upheld in 1941. In 1991, former Chief Justice Warren Burger said the National Rifle Association's interpretation of virtually unlimited Second Amendment rights was an obvious "fraud." In its 2008 Heller decision, the Supreme Court essentially adopted the NRA view. In the end, it seems fair to conclude that even great legal minds read their own political preferences into the Constitution. As Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story said in 1845: "How easily men satisfy themselves that the Constitution is exactly what they wish it to be." The constitution: What the Founders intended
    I have read both Schwartz and Menendian's opinions and my view has not changed. Although both argue about the punctuation and grammar of the 2nd amendment, it is clear their debate is inconclusive. Indeed, Schwartz would prefer there to be no refrence to militia in order to simplify it.
    They both fail to demonstrate the intention of the authors, but provide semantic arguments over the ambiguity caused by contemporay language usage.
    In your final link you resort once again to obfuscation, and the federal v state argument over powers and primacy.
    As Menendian concludes in his argument; But what is clear is that progressive jurists have a strong textual Constitutional argument for reasonable gun-control measures. Oh dear, you appear to have shot yourself in the foot there.
    To conclude my position on this I would say that, once again, you have cherry picked texts which do not support your position, but in this case actively undermine it. A debate about interpretation of archaic language, or the ultimate support for gun control.
    A debate about muskets, is time limited, as Australian comedian Jim Jefferies pointed out, getting angry is ok but the time it takes to load, gives the aggrieved party time to think.
    You seem to choose your opinions like supreme court judges are selected. Based on the bias of the sitting party president.
    Last edited by chassamui; 09-10-2015 at 05:22 AM.

  25. #900
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    Your opinion Chass and we each have one. We can just agree to disagree at this point even though we both feel we have demonstrated proof.

    Neither of us have "cherry picked," but instead have shown two sides of a topic that has no right side or wrong side.

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