The Gun Issue thread

[sabang]

the general feeling among Americans that they cannot trust their government.

The same people saying this now are the same people who supported the invasion of Iraq, and bought the lie that Saddam had WMD's. So I guess they must know all about government lies. They are also the same people that voted for the losing side in the last two presidential elections. Go figure.

[Boon Mee]

You mean that crap that the president is able to order drone strikes on americans on american soil.

given that before drones; helicopters were often the preferred vehical to launch rocket attacks, that helicopters are widely used by US domestic agencies for decades without a single rocket attack being carried on an american within the US. Citing the possible use of drones by domestic agencies hardly constitutes evidence that they are about to start or have the authority to do so.

Heh...but it took an almost 13 hour fillibuster in the Senate to get Holder to say in writing that Obama does not have the Constitutional authority to vaporize his own people on American soil.

[Boon Mee]

The Correlation Between Guns and Homicide Rate

The gun-goobers argument is, the fewer guns, the safer we are but it's not that simple. What we should really examine is: "Are more guns linked to a higher homicide rate?"





In July 2012, The Guardian compiled a spreadsheet containing data on the number of guns per 100 people and the homicide by firearm rate for most countries around the world. However, both pieces of data were not available for each country. Eliminating countries with incomplete data sets leaves us with 107 countries to analyze.

Looks like S. Africa is a far more dangerous place than the US.

The rest here

[sabang]

Looks like S. Africa is a far more dangerous place than the US.

Last I knew, it was. Are you comparing yourselves to Sth Africa now? jeez.
Anyway, please don't compare yerselves to Australia- we're strictly first world.

[hazz]

Heh...but it took an almost 13 hour fillibuster in the Senate to get Holder to say in writing that Obama does not have the Constitutional authority to vaporize his own people on American soil.

As far as I am aware a chap called rand paul was up happy with the choice of CIA director and didn't want him to be appointed. America being a kind of democracy allows the people though the senate to vet the presidents choices. Finding himself unable to use force of argument to get the senate, who were voted in by the people for this job, to agree with him.... he decided to use procedural loopholes, in this case talking for 13 hours to prevent the senate doing the job the people put them in to do.

If anything it rather demonstrates the lack of respect for the judgment of the voters and democracy in general. The drones were simply an excuse, he needed somthing he could bullshit about for 13 hours, and lets be honest what did you learn.... not a lot. if rocket attacks were legal on american soil, you could be as sure they would be using rockets on police helicopters as they would using dumb dumb bullets in police guns.

As yes, please feel free to compare your country to lawless, out of control third world countries like mexico, south africa... What was that they say about bar girls? your can take a country out of the third world, but not the third world out of country.

[pseudolus]

Just out of interest, as all this stuff started up again with Sandy Hook, what's the latest there? Have they done the autopsy yet on Lanza? Was he on meds? They worked out which guns he did use? What's the latest as the news papers seem to be just mentioning him now before banging on about gun control

[Boon Mee]

Just out of interest, as all this stuff started up again with Sandy Hook, what's the latest there? Have they done the autopsy yet on Lanza? Was he on meds? They worked out which guns he did use? What's the latest as the news papers seem to be just mentioning him now before banging on about gun control

Hmm...don't suppose there's anything nefarious going on here do you?

Like being unable to interview the survivors of Benghazie-Gate too?

[Norton]

What's the latest as the news papers

Not much new. Debate rages on. Some progress made but far from Obama's proposed changes.

Congress makes gun trafficking a federal crime as US arms debate continues

US Senators have passed a bill making gun trafficking a federal crime. It was the first Congressional vote to curb firearms since the Sandy Hook massacre, and comes after President Obama placed gun control at the top of his agenda.
The bill, which is sponsored by committee Chairman Patrick Leahy of Vermont, would create penalties of up to 25 years in prison for people who buy guns for others to use in a crime.

The vote was 11 to 7, with Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa the only Republican to support it.

The Senate Judiciary Committee is expected to approve three other gun-control bills before the weekend, thus paving the way for heated debates in the Senate over a proposed ban on assault weapons, as well as calls for expanded background checks on prospective gun owners.

Political observers are almost unanimous in the belief that Congress has no chance of passing an all-out ban on assault weapons, which have been blamed for a rash of shootings, including a recent rampage in Newtown, Connecticut, where 20 school children and six adults were indiscriminately killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing Wednesday, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham defended the right of Americans to use semiautomatic weapons, pointing to post-Katrina New Orleans as an example, said an AR-15 assault rifle would be vital protection against “armed gangs roaming around neighborhoods.”

However, the introduction of more extensive background checks for gun buyers may be one area where Republicans and Democrats can find some compromise.

The debate hinges on whether the government has the right to maintain a directory of private gun sales. Republicans, which make up the majority of the hugely influential National Rifle Association (NRA), are fiercely opposed to handing over such ‘arbitrary powers’ to the federal government.

Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma said it was possible to reach an accord with Democrats on background checks, but there was a chance"we won't, and that will be a shame,"

According to the results of a January CBS/New York Times poll, more than 90 per cent of Americans support expanded background checks on prospective gun owners.

Another area of possible agreement between Democrats and Republicans involves bolstering security in schools across the nation.

Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer has received bipartisan support for her bill that would provide $40 million annually for 10 years in matching federal grants to schools in an effort to beef up security.The measure would empower the US Justice Department to create a National Center for Campus Public Safety.

"Congress spends hundreds of millions a year to protect its members,” the California senator said earlier this week.“It can certainly spend $40 million a year to protect our children."

Democrats control the Judiciary Committee, but they will need 60 votes to pass gun control legislation in the 100-member Senate where they have a 55-45 majority.

The NRA has witnessed a surge in new membership, gaining about half-a-million new members since mid-December, bringing total membership to about 4.5 million over fears of a government crackdown on gun sales.

Congress makes gun trafficking a federal crime as US arms debate continues ? RT USA

[pseudolus]

Well they have the body of the man who did it, and yet the cops keep saying "it would harm our case if we release all the details that would shut up all the conspiracy theorists out there". Are we to assume then that the ghost of Adam Lanza is contesting his charges and has got himself some sharp lawyer called Shapiro?

[Norton]

the cops keep saying "it would harm our case if we release all the details that would shut up all the conspiracy theorists out there"

Haven't heard that one. Perhaps you can lead us to a source where cops said this.

End of the day no matter what is said, done or proven to be fact, the "conspiracy theorist" will ignore and continue to claim conspiracy.

There are all sorts of things need closer scrutiny and investigation. However there is not a hidden hand in everything or some grand scale global cabal intent on world domination. Conspiracy theorists dont know where factual evidence is but they throw out any number of suggestions, which are oftentimes contradictory.

Common knowlege; Giant Lizards Rule the Earth, Moon Landing was a Hoax, 9/11 was a Cover-Up, CIA is responsible for AIDS, Marilyn Monroe Murdered on orders from the Kennedy family, and on and on.

No need to address any of the above here. Numerous forums specializing in conspiracy's can be found via Google. Take your comments there. Moon Landing was a Hoax has been done on TD.

[barbaro]

[quote=pseudolus;2384338]

Have they done the autopsy yet on Lanza?

I definitely think they did an autopsy and toxiclology/meds test.

Was he on meds?

I'll google now. I don't know.

They worked out which guns he did use?

2 handguns. At least two magazines, and I think they were higher capacity mags.


A major new organization - I forgot which one - reported that he used an assault rifle.

What's the latest as the news papers seem to be just mentioning him now before banging on about gun control

Here is a short clip with Nugent and Morgan debating gun control.

I think both of the them have some valid arguments - but I think Nugent's arguments are far, far, better.

Watch this and give your opinion:

[Boon Mee]

More red meat for those gun-goobers who refuse to acknowledge America isn't Europe or OZ or NZ etc:

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that is good." -George Washington


"The Constitution shall never be construed….to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." -Samuel Adams

It's not rocket surgery folks...

[Norton]

It's not rocket surgery folks.

Nor is fabricating a quote by G. Washington. Never said that Booners. Plenty of good stuff by founders to support gun advocacy. No need to make stuff up.

[sabang]

Realistically, calling the current measures 'gun control' is hyperbole. The USA will remain the worlds most armed country even if all of the proposed legislation is passed, and US citizens will still have no limit placed on the number of firearms they can legally own. Given the massive majority of the population that approve of these measures, it will be interesting to see how much Congress will be able to deny the Rights of the majority.

[Norton]

it will be interesting to see how much Congress will be able to deny the Rights of the majority.

No it won't. Been there done that many times. Best can be achieved is a watered down toothless bill so both sides can claim political victory. All will go quiet until the next hair on fire incident catches media interest.

Not interesting a bit.

[Boon Mee]

it will be interesting to see how much Congress will be able to deny the Rights of the majority.

No it won't. Been there done that many times. Best can be achieved is a watered down toothless bill so both sides can claim political victory. All will go quiet until the next hair on fire incident catches media interest.

Not interesting a bit.

Especially since the Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld the 2nd Amendment.

[sabang]

Precisely- so it is a limited set of gun control measures, that in no way violate the 2nd amendment. The right of an American to bear firearms remains.

[barbaro]

Realistically, calling the current measures 'gun control' is hyperbole. The USA will remain the worlds most armed country even if all of the proposed legislation is passed, and US citizens will still have no limit placed on the number of firearms they can legally own. Given the massive majority of the population that approve of these measures, it will be interesting to see how much Congress will be able to deny the Rights of the majority.

I am a gun owner.

I have had 2 concealed carry permits (CCWs).

As noted by Sabang above, with a population so armed - criminals - I will not rely on calling 911 for help - there is no time and if I am threatened with serious harm or my family is, I'll defend myself.

I do not think this will change.

The USA is not the UK, Oz, or Europe.

[Ozcol]

Thank fuk for that.

[pseudolus]

it will be interesting to see how much Congress will be able to deny the Rights of the majority.

No it won't. Been there done that many times. Best can be achieved is a watered down toothless bill so both sides can claim political victory. All will go quiet until the next hair on fire incident catches media interest.

Not interesting a bit.

Especially since the Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld the 2nd Amendment.

Hasn't the people on the supreme court shifted recently though?

[Boon Mee]

^
Yes, which is worrisome...

[Boon Mee]

Not photoshopped.

[Cujo]

Realistically, calling the current measures 'gun control' is hyperbole. The USA will remain the worlds most armed country even if all of the proposed legislation is passed, and US citizens will still have no limit placed on the number of firearms they can legally own. Given the massive majority of the population that approve of these measures, it will be interesting to see how much Congress will be able to deny the Rights of the majority.

I am a gun owner.

I have had 2 concealed carry permits (CCWs).

As noted by Sabang above, with a population so armed - criminals - I will not rely on calling 911 for help - there is no time and if I am threatened with serious harm or my family is, I'll defend myself.

I do not think this will change.

The USA is not the UK, Oz, or Europe.

No, because every fucker is armed to the teeth, violent and paranoid.

[barbaro]

Realistically, calling the current measures 'gun control' is hyperbole. The USA will remain the worlds most armed country even if all of the proposed legislation is passed, and US citizens will still have no limit placed on the number of firearms they can legally own. Given the massive majority of the population that approve of these measures, it will be interesting to see how much Congress will be able to deny the Rights of the majority.

I am a gun owner.

I have had 2 concealed carry permits (CCWs).

As noted by Sabang above, with a population so armed - criminals - I will not rely on calling 911 for help - there is no time and if I am threatened with serious harm or my family is, I'll defend myself.

I do not think this will change.

The USA is not the UK, Oz, or Europe.

No, because every fucker is armed to the teeth, violent and paranoid.

The vast majority of people are not armed. Meaning, they do not carry guns. Gun owers keep their guns in the homes.

I do know anyone who is 'paranoid' or (to use a different term) extremely fearful of crime. (In certain areas I'm sure that there are people with legitimate fear: parts of Chicago, Los Angeles, DC and other large cities.

Violence: I've seen the numbers on violence, violent crimes, etc., and the US actually is not that much worse than many countries.

Part of the reason IMO, is because of the possibility of a lethal defense.

[Boon Mee]

We're sure the gun-goobers will find fault with this too: