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Old 08-05-2013, 10:17 AM   #476 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Democrats Can't Be Trusted with Life-and-Death Decisions Because They Live in Denial
yep, takes real men like cheney & bushling to make decisions like that.
I would never thrust cheney or bush,
but Palin, yes,
that is a woman we can thrust.
our lives would be in good conservative hands.....
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:47 AM   #477 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by quimbian corholla View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Put aside your subjective opinions on the author this one time!
You want us to put aside our subjective opinions to read the subjective opinions of a guy who has made millions bilking gullible rubes?
Yes.

Or else you're just another...



The difference here is Rush's analysis is objective.
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:54 AM   #478 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
For your Wednesday morning talking-points discussion:

Which is worse.

1. Watergate

2. Benghazie-Gate

It's obvious to this impartial poster that Benghazie-Gate is worse as nobody died in the Watergate scandal.

Discuss.

Conventional Washington wisdom holds that the cover-up is always worse than the crime.

It's hard to even compare the two. Watergate was pure domestic politics. One side trying to gain an edge over the other. Dirty tricks....but almost routine in DC... A classic case of do what you want; just don't get caught.

Benghazi on the other hand was a case of what amounts to US territory being attacked by a foreign enemy. People were killed and in way the US was publicly humiliated...by their apparent inability to either prevent the attack or to deal with the perps after the fact.......and then we had the POTUS wringing his hands and apologising for a crappy video which had nothing to do with the US government anyway.....and virtually making excuses for the attack....because Islam was insulted by the video..... Wylie Coyote usually came off better than Obama on that one....
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:42 PM   #479 (permalink)
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Is this a case of Do as I Say, or as I Do?

“The military has conducted hundreds of assessments for battles throughout Iraq and Afghanistan. At the platoon level, an ‘After Action’ critique is required whenever there are American fatalities. But at the highest level, there has been no military After Action assessment about Benghazi.”

Wonder why that is? You'd think with a talented team such as Obama has, they would cover their tracks a little better...

BTW, it's Wile E. Coyote!
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:45 PM   #480 (permalink)
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File: Fox News Benghazi Misinformation Campaign

Fox News chief ordered Geraldo Rivera’s mic cut for defending Obama on Benghazi: report

Fox News chief ordered Geraldo Rivera’s mic cut for defending Obama on Benghazi: report | The Raw Story
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:59 AM   #482 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Humbert View Post
File: Fox News Benghazi Misinformation Campaign

Fox News chief ordered Geraldo Rivera’s mic cut for defending Obama on Benghazi: report

Fox News chief ordered Geraldo Rivera’s mic cut for defending Obama on Benghazi: report | The Raw Story
Heh...forget Geraldo Riveria - very small beer in the context of what we learned today:

THE SEVEN THINGS WE LEARNED FROM THE BENGHAZIE HEARINGS:

1. There were multiple stand-down orders, not just one. Special operations forces were told, twice, by their chain of command not to board aircraft to Benghazi to rescue the Americans then under attack. The U.S. deputy diplomat, Greg Hicks, testified that the military commander, Lt. Col. Gibson, had his team ready to go twice. They were on the runway about to board a flight to Benghazi in the middle of the attack. They were ordered to stand down and remain in Tripoli to receive wounded who would be coming out of Benghazi. One of the orders came in the middle of the attack, the other came toward the end after Hicks’ team had traveled from Tripoli to Benghazi. The fact that Hicks’ team was able get to Benghazi before the end of the assault strongly suggests that the special operations team could have made a real difference.

At the same time, the State Department’s commander on the scene, Hicks, ordered his personnel into Benghazi and went there himself. Hicks testified that Gibson never told him who issued the stand-down orders. He commented that Gibson told him that the military stand-down was a shock: “This is the first time in my career that a diplomat has more balls than someone in the military.”

Hicks also testified that the U.S. government never even requested military overflight to support the Americans in Benghazi. The U.S. had an unarmed drone overhead and could have gotten permission to fly fighters over the scene, at least, but never asked.

2. Ambassador Stevens’ reason for going to Benghazi has been cleared up. Hicks testified that Ambassador Stevens traveled to Benghazi to fulfill one of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s wishes. Despite the fact that security was worsening in Benghazi for months leading up to the 9-11 attack, Clinton wanted to make the post there permanent. Her State Department had denied repeated requests from the U.S. team in Libya to upgrade security there, but she wanted to use the permanent post as a symbol of goodwill. Stevens was committed to that goal and told Clinton he would “make it happen.” He was in Benghazi on 9-11 furthering Clinton’s goal. She had denied requests to beef up security at Benghazi and then blamed his death on a YouTube movie. Hicks’ testimony raises the question of Clinton’s competence and grasp on reality, strongly suggesting that she put political perceptions ahead of the facts on the ground in Benghazi.

3. Clinton was briefed at 2 am on the night of the attack, was never told that a movie had anything to do with the attack by those on the ground in Libya, yet blamed the movie anyway. Hicks also testified that he was shocked when Ambassador Susan Rice blamed a YouTube movie for inspiring the 9-11 attack. He testified that he had briefed Secretary Clinton directly via phone at 2 a.m. and told her that Benghazi was a terrorist attack. He never mentioned a YouTube video, which he never once believed had anything to do with the attack. But Clinton shocked him by blaming the movie on Sept 12. She would blame it, again, while standing before the coffins of the slain Americans, on Sept. 14. During the attack, Clinton told Hicks that no help would be on the way to relieve the Americans under sustained assault.

4. Whistleblowers were intimidated into silence. Hicks testified to a pattern of behavior that leads to the reasonable conclusion that many officials within the State Department wanted him to remain silent after the Benghazi attack. He said that on the night of the attack he was personally commended both by Secretary Clinton and President Barack Obama. But he later questioned why Ambassador Rice blamed the YouTube movie, and from that point on his superior, Acting Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern Affairs Beth Jones, questioned his “management style” and told him directly that no one in State should want him on their team in the field again. He was eventually demoted to a desk job after having been deputy to Ambassador Stevens, and remains in that post. Hick also testified that the Accountability Review Board, convened by Clinton last fall allegedly to determine the facts of the attack, never had stenographers in the room during his tw0-hour interview. Nordstrom concurred. Thompson was not even allowed to testify to the ARB despite having direct knowledge of the attacks due to his position on the U.S. Foreign Emergency Support Team. Thompson testified that the FEST was designed to go from zero to wheels up very quickly but was not deployed at all. He wanted to tell his story to the ARB, but was not allowed to. Hicks also testified that for the first time in his career, the State Department assigned a lawyer/minder to attend witness interviews with the ARB. He also testified that Jones told him not to be personally interviewed by Rep. Jason Chaffetz, the Republican House member who was investigating the attack on behalf of the House Government Oversight and Reform Committee. It all adds up to a pattern of witness control and intimidation.

5. “The YouTube movie was a non-event in Libya.” Hicks directly testified that the YouTube movie, for which a man remains in jail, was not in any way relevant to the attack in Benghazi. Why Obama, Clinton, Rice et al blamed that movie for the attack remains an unanswered question. Hicks said that no American on the ground in Libya that night believed the movie was to blame. He also testified that there was no protest prior to the attack. When the attack began, he was in Tripoli. He texted Stevens, who was in Benghazi, to advise him of the riot in Cairo at the U.S. embassy. In that riot, jihadists had stormed the walls and replaced the American flag with the black flag of Islam. Stevens had not been aware of the Cairo situation at all, but shortly after Hicks texted him about it, Stevens called and told Hicks that the Benghazi consulate was under attack. He never mentioned a protest.

Hicks also testified that blaming the movie had strongly adverse real-world effects. According to him, it humiliated Libya’s president, who had correctly stated that Benghazi was a terrorist attack. Blaming the movie, Hicks said, did “immeasurable damage” to our relations with Libya and delayed the FBI investigation. On Sept. 12, Ambassador Susan Rice told the first of her many untruths, claiming in an email that the FBI investigation into the attack was already underway. It would not actually get underway for 17 days after the attack, by which time the scene of the attack had been compromised and contaminated.

We still do not know who decided to change the original CIA talking points and blame the movie, but the finger is pointing directly at Hillary Clinton. She was briefed by Hicks during the attack, the movie was never mentioned, but in her first public statement on September 12, she blamed the movie. Her subordinate, Ambassador Susan Rice, also blamed the movie the following weekend. The fact that Obama himself blamed the movie repeatedly, though, strongly suggests that he took part in the decision as well.

6. Democrats were uninterested in getting at most of the facts, but were very interested in destroying Mark Thompson. Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) set the tone for the Democrats’ angle on the hearings in his opening remarks. He used his opening to attack the committee chairman, Rep. Darrell Issa, and to pre-question the witnesses. Most of the Democrats who followed him failed to ask many questions of the witnesses. Instead, they delivered speeches or blamed budget cuts, an argument that has already been debunked by the State Department itself. One sadly hilarious moment came during Rep. William Clay’s questioning. The Missouri Democrat blamed the repeated denials to enhance security at Benghazi on budget cuts. Issa reminded him that the State Department has debunked that line, in the person of Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Charlene Lamb. She testified last fall that budget cuts had not impacted the decisions not to enhance security at Benghazi. Clay claimed not to remember Lamb’s testimony, then moved quickly to cite the ARB, which backed his side. His selective memory proved politically, if not factually, reliable.

Mark Thompson, member of the Foreign Emergency Support Team (FEST) testified that his section had been cut out of decision making during the attack. The Democrats consistently circled on him to try to get him to contradict himself or attack his boss, Daniel Benjamin, who has claimed FEST was included throughout the attack. They never really succeeded, and now Benjamin will be called to testify in a future hearing to clear up the dispute. The heads of the ARB, Ambassador Thomas Pickering and Admiral Michael Mullen, will now be called as well.

7. House hearings are a poor way to determine who did what and why during and after the attack. The Republicans, as I said, should have broken today’s hearing out across several days. When they did question the witnesses, they kept their speeches short and focused on getting answers. Their Democratic counterparts consistently gave speeches and raised red herrings. They were able to waste time and stall long enough for the Arias trial to push the hearing off the TV, and for energy to flag and boredom to set in. The Benghazi attack needs to be properly investigated by someone outside the political process and outside the Obama administration. State cannot be trusted; its own investigation failed even to interview Clinton. Defense may also have officers and political appointees to protect. A special prosecutor is in order and should be appointed.

The PJ Tatler » 7 Things We Learned from the Benghazi Whistleblower Hearing

Get out the Tar & Feathers - run both Obama & Clinton out of town.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:41 AM   #483 (permalink)
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A truly succinct definition of Irony:

: Bush Admin accepted CIA talking points on WMD. CIA was wrong. O Admin altered CIA TPs on Benghazi. CIA was right.

Makes total sense. Bush was a Republican President and therefore not to be trusted...
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:52 AM   #484 (permalink)
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A twitter from Ari hardly makes a case for anything other than his opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
there has been no military After Action assessment about Benghazi
Naturally given US military was not involved.

Why no US military were in an area known via several intelligence sources to be highly dangerous is a question needing an answer. Had there been sufficient security via US military likely there would have been no attack. State Dept dropped the ball big time.

Why was no military sent to Benghazi as soon as it was known an attack was underway? The answers I'm hearing don't tally. No question fighters could have got there in 2 or 3 hours. Their presence could well of prevented a siege of 6 hours and saved lives. Military dropped the ball big time.

For 2 weeks after the attack the "talking" points of the attack continued it was "demonstration" gone violent because of a video is ludicrous. Intelligence from Libiyan gov and US sources clearly point out this was not the case. Somebody in the intelligence chain of command dropped the ball big time.

Those are the 3 big questions. Find out where each of the above organizations dropped the ball and do something to prevent happening again. This is what the congressional committee should focus on.

What we are seeing now is a political exercise in "who" can we pin this on. On one hand GOP going after Clinton and Obama. On the other side Dems doing their best to "protect" Clinton and Obama.

As I said in an earlier post no matter how hard GOP tries to pin anything on either is an exercise in futility. The system is set up to give top officials deniability. For now it's business as usual in a dysfunctional Congress. Each member getting a chance to wax not so eloquently to his/her respective electorate.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:54 AM   #485 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by importford
that is a woman we can thrust.
I'll go along with that.

The GOP & Fox stuffed up 'benghazigate' from the beginning, by inanely jumping on to every lurid conspiracy theory, which of course were soon proved to be nonsense.
So the public stifled a yawn, and forgot about it. You won't get them back- at the end of the day it is seen (correctly imo) as muckraking by the GOP for political points, rather than a true 'get to the facts' enquiry. The indignant, self righteous squeals emanating from the RW blogosphere do not register because they are predictable, repetitive, and thus have no impact outside of the faithful.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:59 AM   #486 (permalink)
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God don't you love the republicans, they'll be whining about this one for years.
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:15 PM   #487 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
God don't you love the republicans, they'll be whining about this one for years.
Got that right!

Wait 'till Piano Legs gets started on her campaign for 2016. Think you've been sufficently exposed to her Benghazie failures thus far?
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:20 PM   #488 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Norton View Post
A twitter from Ari hardly makes a case for anything other than his opinion.
Probably so although I ran across the following Tweet today that is somewhat topical:

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Old 09-05-2013, 02:29 PM   #489 (permalink)
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So far the crux of the issue on the so called testimony of the Benghazi 'whistle blowers' is who gave the military special forces unit in Tripoli the order to 'stand down' and not come to the assistance of the consulate which was under attack. No body seems to remember the actual words 'stand down' being used but the decision was made, and this is where it gets murky, by the CIA and military in Washington.

There is a fundamental disagreement, and this has nothing at all to do with a cover-up, on whether military assistance could have arrived in Benghazi in time to do any good.

The earlier timeline already presented by the state department and CIA has not been contradicted by recent testimony.

The Republicans are engaged in another political witch hunt over this just like the one over Vince Foster's suicide during the Clinton years and in all likelihood this effort will end up being a giant embarrassment to them as well.
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:16 PM   #490 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Wait 'till Piano Legs gets started on her campaign for 2016. Think you've been sufficently exposed to her Benghazie failures thus far?
That's what this is about, the repubs are terrified of a Clinton run in 2016 and are tying to torpedo her campaign before it even starts.
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:39 PM   #491 (permalink)
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Jon Stewart gets it perfect again.

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:11 PM   #492 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quimbian corholla View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Wait 'till Piano Legs gets started on her campaign for 2016. Think you've been sufficently exposed to her Benghazie failures thus far?
That's what this is about, the repubs are terrified of a Clinton run in 2016 and are tying to torpedo her campaign before it even starts.
Not really although it would be a nice side gift. The fact remains there was military assistance available to get our boys out of harms way in Benghazie but were told to stand down. Full stop...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=WQt29VxrDns
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:21 PM   #493 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
Not really although it would be a nice side gift. The fact remains there was military assistance available to get our boys out of harms way in Benghazie but were told to stand down. Full stop...
And where is the proof of a conspiracy and cover-up that will lead to impeachment? Booners has been claiming its all about to be revealed any day now - for the last 8 months. He also asserted that Solyndra and then Fast and Furious would bring down impeachment proceedings. The right has zero credibility. Losers.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:27 PM   #494 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbert View Post

And where is the proof of a conspiracy and cover-up
Jesus you are slow.

Do try and recall that video purporting to have set off the event? Piano Legs et. al. lying about it two weeks after.

Do try and keep up there Humbert...
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:58 PM   #495 (permalink)
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^ If that's proof of an impeachable offense you are truly living in an alternate reality. Sad old spambot.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:24 PM   #496 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
God don't you love the republicans, they'll be whining about this one for years.
Got that right!

Wait 'till Piano Legs gets started on her campaign for 2016. Think you've been sufficently exposed to her Benghazie failures thus far?
being a outsider looking at the hearing, clinton sure did not cover herself in glory,
to me it looked like the guards were expendable, a sad way to look at
political point scoring, but it will come back to bite her on the bum
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:52 PM   #497 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbert
Jon Stewart gets it perfect again.
Haha- very good indeed. outta bullets.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:11 PM   #498 (permalink)
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Let us remember that covertly selling weapons to America's enemies then using the funds to support notoriously vicious goon squads with a penchant for rape and indiscriminate slaughter is NOT as scandalous as saying an attack was motivated by a film when it was eventually shown not to be a factor. In fact, the latter is TEN TIMES WORSE!!1!
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:28 PM   #499 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koman
Benghazi on the other hand was a case of what amounts to US territory being attacked by a foreign enemy. People were killed and in way the US was publicly humiliated.
and the 54 attacks on diplomatic targets that killed 13 americans during the bush administration? do you have any outrage about that?

thought not.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:38 PM   #500 (permalink)
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this manufactured story is all about 2 things:

1. fox and the rest of the right wing noise machine are trying to smear the president with insinuation and innuendo. as the stewart clip makes plain, "IF" is used in nearly every sentence they use.

2. the right knows they have no chance against clinton in '16 and they're trying to soften her up for that battle. good luck with that.
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