Welcome to the TeakDoor.com The Thailand Forum. |
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view some discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us
|Speakers Corner Air your opinion on current world affairs. A forum for civil discussion and exchange of ideas. No flaming or abuse allowed. All posts should include your opinion on the subject, not your opinion of the member posting.|
| ||LinkBack||Thread Tools||Search this Thread||Display Modes|
|01-09-2012, 06:32 AM||#76 (permalink)|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: left of center
Lyin' Ryan at the 2012 Republican Convention
The Most Dishonest Convention Speech ... Ever?: The Five Big Misrepresentations Of Paul Ryan's Convention Speech
Here are the five statements that deserve serious scrutiny:
1) About the GM plant in Janesville.
Ryan’s home district includes a shuttered General Motors plant. Here’s what happened, according to Ryan:
A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.
Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.
It’s true: The plant shut down. But it shut down in 2008—before Obama became president.
By the way, nobody questions that, if not for the Obama Administration’s decision to rescue Chrysler and GM, the domestic auto industry would have crumbled. Credible estimates suggested that the rescue saved more than a million jobs. Unemployment in Michigan and Ohio, the two states with the most auto jobs, have declined precipitously.
2) About Medicare.
Ryan attacked Obama for “raiding” Medicare. Again, Ryan has no standing whatsoever to make this attack, because his own budget called for taking the same amount of money from Medicare. Twice. The only difference is that Ryan’s budget used those savings to finance Ryan’s priorities, which include a massive tax cut that benefits the wealthy disproportionately.
It’s true that Romney has pledged to put that money back into Medicare and Ryan now says he would do the same. But the claim is totally implausible given Romney's promise to cap non-defense spending at 16 percent of gross domestic product.
By the way, Obamacare's cut to Medicare was a reduction in what the plan pays hospitals and insurance companies. And the hospitals said they could live with those cuts, because Obamacare was simultaneously giving more people health insurance, alleviating the financial burden of charity care.
What Obamacare did not do is take away benefits. On the contrary, it added benefits, by offering free preventative care and new prescription drug coverage. By repealing Obamacare, Romney and Ryan would take away those benefits—and, by the way, add to Medicare's financial troubles because the program would be back to paying hospitals and insurers the higher rates.
3) About the credit rating downgrade.
Ryan blamed the downgrading of American debt on Obama. But it was the possibility that America would default on its debts that led to the downgrade. And why did that possibility exist? Because Republicans refused to raise the debt ceiling, playing chicken not just with the nations’ credit rating but the whole economy, unless Obama would cave into their budget demands.
4) About the deficit.
Ryan said “President Obama has added more debt than any other president before him” and proclaimed “We need to stop spending money we don’t have.” In fact, this decade’s big deficits are primarily a product of Bush-era tax cuts and wars. (See graph.) And you know who voted for them? Paul Ryan
5) About protecting the weak.
Here’s Ryan on the obligations to help those who can’t help themselves:
We have responsibilities, one to another – we do not each face the world alone. And the greatest of all responsibilities, is that of the strong to protect the weak. The truest measure of any society is how it treats those who cannot defend or care for themselves. … We can make the safety net safe again.
The rhetoric is stirring—and positively galling. Analysis from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities shows that 62 percent of the cuts in Ryan budget would come from programs that serve low-income people. And that’s assuming he keeps the Obamacare Medicare cuts. If he’s serious about putting that money back into Medicare, the cuts to these programs would have to be even bigger.
Among the cuts Ryan specified was a massive reduction in Medicaid spending. According to a report by the Kaiser Family Foundation and Urban Institute, between 14 and 27 million people would lose health insurance from these cuts. That’s above and beyond the 15 million or so who are supposed to get Medicaid coverage from the Affordable Care Act but wouldn’t because Romney and Ryan have pledged to repeal the law.
6 Worst Lies In Paul Ryan’s Speech: 6 Worst Lies In Paul Ryan's Speech
1. “A downgraded America.” Ryan blamed the president for the nation’s credit downgrade in August 2011 after Republicans threatened to allow the government to default on its debt for the first time in history. But the ratings agency explicitly blamed “Republicans saying that they refuse to accept any tax increases as part of a larger deal.”
2. “More debt than any other president before him, and more than all the troubled governments of Europe combined.” Romney has made the almost identical claim, that Obama has amassed more debt “as almost all of the other presidents combined.” But their math doesn’t add up: when Obama took office, the national debt was $10.626 trillion. It has increased to slightly above $15 trillion.
3. Shuttered General Motors plant is “one more broken promise.” Ryan described a GM plant that closed down in his hometown, Janesville, Wisconsin, and blamed Obama for breaking his promise to keep the plant open when he visited during his campaign. But Obama never made that promise, and the plant shut down in December 2008, before Obama even took office.
4. Obama “did exactly nothing” on Bowles-Simpson. Ryan said, “He created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing.” In fact, Ryan was instrumental in sabotaging the commission, leading the other House Republicans in voting against the plan.
5. “$716 billion, funneled out of Medicare by President Obama.” Ryan’s favorite lie is a deliberate distortion of Obamacare’s savings from eliminating inefficiencies. Furthermore, Ryan’s own plan for Medicare includes these savings. Romney has vowed to restore these cuts, which would render the trust fund insolvent 8 years ahead of schedule.
6. “The greatest of all responsibilities is that of the strong to protect the weak.” Ryan closed the speech with an invocation of social responsibility, saying, “The truest measure of any society is how it treats those who cannot defend or care for themselves.” However, numerous clergy members have condemned Ryan’s budget plan as “cruel,” and “an immoral disaster” because of its devastating cuts in social programs the poor and sick rely on. Meanwhile, Ryan would give ultra-rich individuals and corporations $3 trillion in tax breaks.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
|01-09-2012, 07:08 AM||#77 (permalink)|
The Media’s ‘Fact Check’ Smokescreen.
If media “fact checkers” are just impartial guardians of the truth, how come they got their own facts wrong about Paul Ryan’s speech, and did so in a way that helped President Obama’s re-election effort?
|02-09-2012, 04:46 AM||#78 (permalink)|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: left of center
It amazes me this Lyin’ Ryan can get his name right.
Vice presidential candidate Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) has been forced to admit that he lied in an interview with conservative columnist Hugh Hewitt when he said that he once completed a marathon in under three hours. According to Huffington Post, Ryan’s campaign has admitted to Runner’s World magazine that the congressman’s claim to have finished a marathon in “two hours and fifty-something” minutes was a fabrication. : Ryan claims faulty memory behind marathon lie
|04-09-2012, 11:12 AM||#79 (permalink)|
^Heh... So the Lamestream Media is showing more interest in Ryan's running time than they did vetting Obama back in 2008? Crap he wrote which turned out to be false.
Only took the press four years even to inquire, eh? We're so proud they're right on top of Paul Ryan's marathon time. What a terrific service to the Republic they are...
|13-09-2012, 03:24 PM||#80 (permalink)|
I don't know
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: on pacific ocean, south america
I've been poking around into Paul Ryan.
He voted for TARP in 2008, 2 foreign wars that costs trillions and most disturbingly he voted "yes" to support Medicare-D.
Ryan has not credibility in my book.
Obama will win.
Paul Ryan's Party
|21-09-2012, 07:31 AM||#81 (permalink)|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: left of center
I guess that Lyin’ Ryan pick wasn’t such a good choice.
A few Wisconsin polls released today.
Barack Obama 52%
Mitt Romney 45%
Marquette Law School (9/13-16)
Barack Obama 54%
Mitt Romney 40%
14% advantage over the Dim Mitt/Lyin’ Ryan ticket
Barack Obama 51%
Mitt Romney 45%
And Dim Mitt is supposed to be some kinda good manager? He’s running his own campaign into the ground with the choices he’s making.
|22-09-2012, 01:47 PM||#82 (permalink)|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chiang Mai
Paul Ryan was booed by the senior citizens of the AARP when he criticized Obamacare in his speach. If he hasn't got retired people behind him, he hasn't much support at all.
|11-10-2012, 07:48 PM||#83 (permalink)|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: left of center
It will be interesting to see/listen to how Lyin’ Ryan handles these facts during the debate tonight.
1. Romney and Ryan would eliminate health care for 31 million people who are poor or disabled. Medicaid, which helps poor Americans, some seniors, and children afford health care, is right in the crosshairs of Paul Ryan’s House budget. He proposed cutting $1.4 trillion from the program, a move that would kick about 11 million people off Medicaid over the course of ten years. The Romney-Ryan plan is even worse, and is estimated to force about 44 million people off the program.
2. Ryan considers Social Security a “Ponzi Scheme.” In the Fall of 2011, Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) called Social Security a “Ponzi scheme,” and Paul Ryan agreed. Ryan wants to privatize the program.
3. 62% of Ryan’s budget cuts come from programs that benefit low-income Americans. Ryan’s budget proposes “$5.3 trillion in nondefense budget cuts.” 62 percent of the reductions would come from programs that specifically help low-income Americans:
4. Ryan voted for future defense cuts he now blames on Obama. Though Ryan claims Obama somehow orchestrated the sequester, a series of across-the-board spending cuts triggered if Congress can’t produce a better plan, the VP pick himself was a supporter of the mechanism. Not only did he vote for legislation to establish it, he peddled the plan to his Republican colleagues and proposed a similar initiative in 2004.
5. Ryan and Romney cannot cut taxes across the board by 20% and lower the deficit because it’s mathematically impossible. Ryan claims they will achieve these twin goals by closing loopholes and getting rid of deductions for the rich. But, as the Tax Policy Center points out, even if they got rid of every single deduction and loophole, they would still need to find more revenue. That means they’d need to start raising taxes on the middle class.
6. Ryan voted to increase the debt ceiling by $4 trillion under Bush. During the Bush years alone, Ryan voted with his party’s leadership to increase the debt ceiling by $4 trillion. In total, he has voted six times to raise the debt ceiling, increasing it by $5.8 trillion.
7. Ryan/asshole wants to kick 1 million students off of Pell Grants. As part of his budget, Ryan proposed cutting Pell Grants for nearly 1 million college students. Seventy four percent of Pell Grant recipients in 2011 came from families with incomes of $30,000 or less. There is no evidence that these cuts will curb rising college costs.
8. Ryan’s budget included the same $716 billion in Medicare savings included in Obamacare.The $716 billion that Obamacare takes out of Medicare will almost definitely come up in tomorrow’s debate. Ryan has claimed that Obama “raided” Medicare to pay for his health care reform. In fact, Ryan wants to make Medicare a voucher program and proposed taking the same cuts out of Medicare in his budget. But whereas Obamacare uses those funds to eliminate fraud and increase efficiency, Ryan proposed taking that money to pay down the deficit.
9. Ryan supported economic stimulus under Bush. If he’s going to follow the lead of his running mate, Ryan will invoke Obama’s stimulus plan, the Recovery Act, as failed legislation that wasted taxpayer money. But when George Bush was president, Ryan was supportive of a stimulus, and actually made a rousing case for infusing the economy with money, saying that it helped create jobs. Watch it:
10. Ryan used to supports a key aspect of Obamacare. Ryan will likely say at the debate that the Affordable Care Act is government overreach. In fact, he might even invoke “death panels,” as he has done at recent town halls. But Ryan proposed something extremely similar to these so-called “death panels” in 2009 — twice. In December of 2010, Ryan also asked the Department of Health and Human Services for an Obamacare health care grant “for the Kenosha Community Health Center, Inc to develop a new facility in Racine, Wisconsin, an area within Ryan’s district.”
11. Ryan/asshole opposes abortion access for rape victims. When it comes to abortion rights, Ryan is among the most extreme anti-abortion members of Congress. He believes rape victimsshouldn’t have access to abortions and co-sponsored a “personhood” amendment that would have defined a fertilized egg as a human, thus outlawing not just abortion but also in-vitro fertilization and some forms of contraception.
12. Ryan supports a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. Ryan is vehemently opposed to marriage equality for same-sex couples. He has twice voted to amend the constitution to that effect, supported a same-sex marriage ban in his home state, and claimed that preventing same-sex couples from getting married was a “universal human value.”
What Everyone Needs To Know Before Watching The VP Debate
And ya know what happens to Republican Vice Presidential candidates that run with a Presidential candidate that loses in a general election?
Never heard of again. Never wins when they try to run as a presidential candidate. (I think I’m right: List of United States Republican Party presidential tickets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Buh-bye Lyin’ Ryan. Don’t let the door hit ya in the ass.
|12-10-2012, 10:09 AM||#84 (permalink)|
Heh...not going so well with Slow Joe. Biden is either acting like the village idiot or a bar heckler. Is this playing well to anyone? And the moderator… seems to be like real biased.
|12-10-2012, 10:45 AM||#86 (permalink)|
Last Online: 05-07-2014 11:06 PM
Join Date: Nov 2011
Hmmm. I view Biden now as vice chief smirker, sneerer and condescending jerk. Not impressed with him at all -- just parroted the party line, but Ryan was shaky on foreign policy altho visibly composed, but knew his stuff on domestic/economy.
Not really a punch out for either side, but I reckon Biden comes out losing for his derisive snotty attitude.
|12-10-2012, 10:50 AM||#87 (permalink)|
|12-10-2012, 11:37 AM||#88 (permalink)|
Wrap up on the VP Debate:
Ryan wins CNN insta-poll overall, 48/44
Best line is from Greg Gutfeld: “Biden is the drunk at the bar; Martha is the unhappy bartender, and Ryan is the unfortunate salesman caught in the middle.”
Angry old man yells at Paul Ryan for 90 minutes; Update: CNN insta-poll of undecideds shows tie; Update: Ryan wins CNN insta-poll overall, 48/44 « Hot Air
That's pretty funny..
|12-10-2012, 11:55 AM||#89 (permalink)|
Days Work Done!
Last Online: Today 05:26 PM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Both did what they needed to do. Dems are happy, Reps are happy with their guys.
Ryan was focused but still unable to give any specifics other than trust us Romney and I will make things better. Just what he was supposed to do.
Biden attacked Ryan on facts about statements related to all issues. Just what he was supposed to do.
A draw but nothing I heard changes the leanings of undecideds. Ryans performance keeps the momentum Reps got from the 1st Presidential debate going until the next one.
Will have a short history anyway. Next Presidential debate is only few days away.
|12-10-2012, 12:16 PM||#90 (permalink)|
Kinda hard for Ryan to get his point(s) across when he was interrupted 82 times in a 90 min debate, eh?
Vice President Joe Biden interrupted Paul Ryan 82 times in a 90-minute debate with rival Paul Ryan, while CNN reported that women preferred Ryan.
“FACT: Final Count: Biden interrupted 82 times during the entire debate,” the RNC’s Joe Pounder tweeted after the debate. CNN’s Gloria Berger said that she would have liked Biden to show less “condescension” and “eye-rolling.
RNC: Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times | WashingtonExaminer.com
|12-10-2012, 04:28 PM||#92 (permalink)|
^Livin' in that delusional world of yours must be a trip! Too bad even CNN called it for Ryan, eh?
Biden, Ryan at each other on everything...
CNN POLL: R 48% B 44%...
Chris Wallace: I've never seen a candidate as disrespectful as Biden...
Borger: Came Off As Condescending...
Hume: 'Cranky Old Man'...
Noonan: 'The old man pushed, and the kid pushed back'...
Biden Interrupted Ryan 82 Times?
RNC AD: THE LAUGHTER...
REALCLEAR MAP SHOWS SHIFT...
|12-10-2012, 05:05 PM||#93 (permalink)|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Behind a slipping mask of sanity in Phuket
The lulz will be forthcoming no matter who triumphs in November.
|13-10-2012, 02:20 AM||#95 (permalink)|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: left of center
The difference between Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan?
Excerpts from the link above,…..
There is a deeply held Beltway myth of Paul Ryan, Man of Big Ideas, and it dies hard. But, if there is a just god in the universe, on Thursday night, it died a bloody death, was hurled into a pit, doused with quicklime, buried without ceremony, and the ground above it salted andstrewn with garlic so that it never rises again. On foreign policy, Ryan occasionally rose, gasping, to the level of obvious neophyte. (He was more lost in Afghanistan than the Russian army ever was.) On domestic policy, his alleged wheelhouse, he was vague, untruthful, and he walked right into a haymaker he should have seen coming from a mile off, when he started bloviating about Biden’s role in the “failed” stimulus program, only to have Biden slap him around with Ryan’s own requests for stimulus money for his home district back in Wisconsin. He also made it quite clear that a Romney-Ryan White House will do everything it can to eliminate a woman’s right to choose. This should make for some fine television commercials over the next few weeks.
He stammered. He vanished into his syntax. He gave Biden the chance to ask him if he preferred that American soldiers carry the fighting in the worst parts of the country rather than Afghan troops, a devastating comeback for which Ryan had no answer. He kept rambling about maintaining the country’s “credibility” until, if you closed your eyes, he started to sound like Robert McNamara in 1965. And when Raddatz asked him, deftly, what would be worse, another war in the Middle East or Iran with a nuclear bomb, he leaped in precipitously with the latter, while about 75 percent of the country, including the two other people on stage with him, looked at Ryan as though he’d lost his mind. He did, however, demonstrate a certain talent for pronouncing long foreign words that his briefers had taught him on Tuesday. Also, he explained winter.
For years, Paul Ryan has been the shining champion of some really terrible ideas, and of a dystopian vision of the political commonwealth in which the poor starve and the elderly die ghastly, impoverished deaths, while all the essential elements of a permanent American oligarchy were put in place. This has garnered him loving notices from a lot of people who should have known better. The ideas he could explain were bad enough, but the profound ignorance he displayed on Thursday night on a number of important questions, including when and where the United States might wind up going to war next, and his blithe dismissal of any demand that he be specific about where he and his running mate are planning to take the country generally, was so positively terrifying that it calls into question Romney’s judgment for putting this unqualified greenhorn on the ticket at all. Joe Biden laughed at him? Of course, he did. The only other option was to hand him a participation ribbon and take him to Burger King for lunch.
Ryan Told 24 Myths In 40 Minutes
1) “It took the president two weeks to acknowledge that [the Libya attack] was a terrorist attack.” Obama used the word “terrorism” to describe the killing of Americans the very next day at the Rose Garden. “No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for,” Obama said in a Rose Garden statement on September 12.
2) “The administration was blocking us every step of the way. Only because we had strong bipartisan support for these tough [Iran] sanctions were we able to overrule their objections and put them in spite of the administration.” Even the Israeli President has effusively praisedPresident Obama’s leadership on getting American and international sanctions on Iran, which have significantly slowed Iran’s progress.
3) “Medicare and Social Security are going bankrupt. These are indisputable facts.” [T]he possibility of Medicare going bankrupt is — and historically has been — greatly exaggerated. In fact, if no changes are made, Medicare would still be able to meet 88 percent of its obligations in 2085. Social Security is fully funded for another two decades and could pay 75 percent of its benefits thereafter. There is also an easy way to ensure the program’s long-term solvency without large changes or cuts to benefits.
4) “The vice president was in charge of overseeing this. $90 billion in green pork to campaign contributors and special interest groups.” Multiple reviews, including an independent review of all Department Of Energy loan programs by Herb Allison –- finance chair for McCain for President 2008 –- have found no “pork” in the stimulus’ funding of green projects, concluding that the loans were not steered to friends or family, as Ryan claims.
5) “Was it a good idea to spend taxpayer dollars on electric cars in Finland, or on windmills in China?” As PolitiFact has pointed out, the money for electric cars in Finland did not come from the stimulus. Rather, it originated with the Energy Department’s Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing program, which predated the Obama administration. The claim about “windmills in China” is also inaccurate.
6) “When they see us putting – when they see us putting daylight between ourselves and our allies in Israel, that gives them encouragement.” The Israeli Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister, Ehud Barak, told CNN, “President Obama is doing … more than anything that I can remember in the past [in regard to our security].”
7) “You see, if you reform these programs for my generation, people 54 and below, you can guarantee they don’t change for people in or near retirement.” Here is how the Romney/Ryan Medicare plan will affect current seniors: 1) by repealing Obamacare, the 16 million seniors receiving preventive benefits without deductibles or co-pays and are saving $3.9 billion on prescription drugs will see a cost increase, 2) “premium support” will increase premiums for existing beneficiaries as private insurers lure healthier seniors out of the traditional Medicare program, 3) Romney/Ryan would also lower Medicaid spending significantly beginning next year, shifting federal spending to states and beneficiaries, and increasing costs for the 9 million Medicare recipients who are dependent on Medicaid.
8) “Obamacare takes $716 billion from Medicare to spend on Obamacare.” Ryan is claiming that Obamacare siphons off $716 billion from Medicare, to the detriment of Medicare beneficiaries. In actuality, that money is saved primarily through reducing over-payments to insurance companies under Medicare Advantage, cutting waste fraud and abuse, and eliminatinginefficiencies in the system. Ryan’s budget plan keeps those same cuts, but directs them toward tax cuts for the rich and deficit reduction.
9) “And then they put this new Obamacare board in charge of cutting Medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors.” The Board, or IPAB is tasked with making binding recommendations to Congress for lowering health care spending, should Medicare costs exceed a target growth rate. Congress can accept the savings proposal or implement its own ideas through a super majority. The panel’s plan will modify payments to providers but it cannot “include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums…increase Medicare beneficiary cost-sharing (including deductibles, coinsurance, and co- payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria” (Section 3403 of the ACA). Relying on health care experts rather than politicians to control health care costs has previously attracted bipartisan support and even Ryan himselfproposed two IPAB-like structures in a 2009 health plan.
10) “7.4 million seniors are projected to lose their current Medicare Advantage coverage they have. That’s a $3,200 benefit cut.” Enrollment is actually projected to increase by 11 percent in Medicare Advantage (MA) in 2013. Since the Affordable Care Act was enacted in 2010, Medicare Advantage premiums have decreased an average of 10 percent and enrollment in these plans has increased 28 percent.
11) “This [Medicare premium support] plan that’s bipartisan. It’s a plan I put together with a prominent Democrat senator from Oregon.” Wyden not only voted against Ryan’s budget, he also called the idea that he supported it “nonsense.”
12) “Eight out of 10 businesses, they file their taxes as individuals, not as corporations.” Far less than half of the people affected by the expiration of the upper income tax cuts get any of their income at all from a small businesses. And those people could very well be receiving speaking fees or book royalties, which qualify as “small business income” but don’t have a direct impact on job creation. It’s actually hard to find a small business who think that they will be hurt if the marginal tax rate on income earned above $250,000 per year is increased.
13) “[Unemployment is rising] all around America.” In August, the unemployment rate dropped from a year before in 325 of 372 metro areas surveyed by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
14) “The average tax rate on businesses in the industrialized world is 25 percent, and the president wants the top effective tax rate on successful small businesses to go above 40 percent.” The U.S. is raising historically low amounts of revenue from the corporate income tax, and it already has the second lowest effective corporate tax rate in the world. U.S. corporations are taxed less than their foreign rivals, and the U.S. effective corporate tax rate is low compared to other developed economies.
15) “He’ll keep saying this $5 trillion plan, I suppose. It’s been discredited by six other studies.”The studies Ryan cites actually further prove that Romney/Ryan would, in fact, have to raise taxes on the middle class if he were to keep his promise not to lose revenue with his tax rate reduction.
16) “You can – you can cut tax rates by 20 percent and still preserve these important preferences for middle-class taxpayer. It is mathematically possible. It’s been done before. It’s precisely what we’re proposing.” If Romney/Ryan hope to provide tax relief to the middle class, then their $5 trillion tax cut would add to the deficit. There are not enough deductions in the tax code that primarily benefit rich people to make his math work. As the Tax Policy Centerconcluded, Romney’s plan can’t both exempt middle class families from tax cuts and remain revenue neutral. “He’s promised all these things and he can’t do them all. In order for him to cover the cost of his tax cut without adding to the deficit, he’d have to find a way to raise taxes on middle income people or people making less than $200,000 a year,” the Center found.
17) “So they proposed a $478 billion cut to defense to begin with. Now we have another $500 billion cut to defense that’s lurking on the horizon. They insisted upon that cut being involved in the debt negotiations, and so we have a $1 trillion cut.” Ryan has frequently gotten in hot water for criticizing President Obama for the very same defense cuts that he voted for in 2011.
18) “If these cuts go through, our Navy will be the smallest – the smallest it has been since before World War I.” PolitiFact rated this claim as “Pants on Fire,” noting that “a wide range of experts told us it’s wrong to assume that a decline in the number of ships or aircraft automatically means a weaker military.”
19) “Look at what they’re doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They’re infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals.” Religious institutions haven’t been forced to “violate their conscience” by paying for contraception. Houses of worship and other religious nonprofits that primarily employ and serve people of the same faith will be exempt from offering birth control.
20) “If you like your health care plan, you can keep it. Try telling that to the 20 million people who are projected to lose their health insurance if Obamacare goes through or the 7-point million – 7.4 million seniors who are going to lose it.” The Affordable Care Act would actually expand health care coverage to 30 million Americans and all seniors will keep their guranteed Medicare benefits, despite Ryan’s fear mongering. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that very few people will have to enroll in new coverage.
21) “We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer when he was turning his Russian-provided guns on his own people.” In March 2011, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clintonnoted that “many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he’s a reformer.” However, she did not endorse their view.
22) “When Barack Obama was elected, they had enough fissile material — nuclear material to make one bomb. Now they have enough for five.” This is misleading and unproven. Iran now has enough fissile material, but has not yet enriched to the necessary level for a weapon. The Institute for Science and International Security says “it would take Iran more than two months to produce that amount if it started with 20%-grade uranium, and ‘several months’ to make enough for a bomb using low-enriched uranium. That would give the world community enough time to detect the operation and organize a response, ISIS noted in June.”
23) “[Iran is] racing toward a nuclear weapon.” Israeli and American intelligence officials aren’t so sure.
24) “We don’t want to do is give our allies reason to trust us less [by announcing a withdrawal timeline for Afghanistan].” It’s unclear how our allies would trust us less since they too agreed to the timeline. As Biden pointed outed, “That’s a bizarre statement. .. Forty-nine of our allies — hear me — 49 of our allies signed on to this position.”
Here’s Paul Ryan during last night’s debate on how he became pro-life, and how his daughter got the nickname “Bean”:
You know, I think about 10 1/2 years ago, my wife Janna and I went to Mercy Hospital in Janesville where I was born, for our seven week ultrasound for our firstborn child, and we saw that heartbeat. A little baby was in the shape of a bean. And to this day, we have nicknamed our firstborn child Liza, “Bean.” Now I believe that life begins at conception.
And here’s Kurt Cobain’s and Courtney Love’s daughter Frances Bean Cobain on how she got the name “Bean” twenty years ago:
Frances Bean Cobain was born at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, and was immediately anointed the world’s newest rock princess. Her parents were two of the biggest rock stars on the planet and her godfather is R.E.M frontman Michael Stipe. Kurt Cobain named his daughter after Frances McKee, the guitarist for The Vaselines, and gave her the middle named Bean because he thought she resembled a kidney bean on the ultrasound. Unfortunately, Frances never really got to know her father; he shot himself to death when she was just 20 months old.
Ryan is reportedly a Nirvana fan, the band that Kurt Cobain started and starred in. We’re to believe this is just a coincidence? Maybe. Or maybe Paul Ryan plagiarized the story about his daughter?
|13-10-2012, 09:07 AM||#96 (permalink)|
Last Online: 05-07-2014 11:06 PM
Join Date: Nov 2011
Biden was an embarrassment to anyone holding public office and anyone has debated at any level -- emotional outbursts, personal attacks and lack of respect for one's opponent were not even allowed in my high school/uni debates. Liberals appear to love histrionics so no wonder he "rallied the base". The last time I saw a world politician spew like this was Kruschev and his shoe-banging speech at the UN.
|13-10-2012, 09:24 AM||#97 (permalink)|
Last Online: 29-10-2014 05:15 AM
Join Date: Feb 2006
Private Ryan looked to be on the verge of sobbing at times. Fox is spluttering, almost apoplectic. Limbaugh totally lost bowel control. Enough to put a smile on a libbies face that.
I wonder what the next debate will be called- "Saving Ryans Privates"?
|13-10-2012, 05:40 PM||#98 (permalink)|
In transit to Valhalla
Looks like even Steven, Dems liked Biden and think he came out best and Republicans favor Ryan as the winner, so too is many press reports very even on the score apart from the most biased to both sides.
This debate will not have moved very many votes so it will still be Obama that have to try to not loose big again in the next two, even with Romney slightly ahead on some polls nationwide (see Real clear Politics for an average of the nationwide polls) his gains are not enough yet to win because of the US election system that favours Democrats, Obama is still well ahead on (electoral-vote.com) with 294 to Romneys 220.
Romney need to gain more win's in the swing states for a real close call, but then it could be a few hundred votes that decide in states like Nevada, New Mexico or Colorado with the then almost inevitable court battles to follow.
Obama does not yet have this one securely in the bag even if he is on that road, a sudden political scandal, international big fvuckup, or Obama loosing decisively in the next two debates etc. could still turn the whole thing.
Romneys latest gains have clearly shook the Liberal Obama supporters who are in the hallmark slightly hysterical aggressive full damage control mode.
" I have been destined to go through life and not around it" Robert Frost.
|14-10-2012, 05:25 AM||#99 (permalink)|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: left of center
This Lyin’ Ryan is a F’in piece of,……….work (to put it politely )
Americablog posted a short article on where they think the American public should start focusing their attention, because I think most everyone understands by now this Lyin’ Ryan character doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.
Paul Ryan's "6 studies that prove Romney's tax plan works" don't
For a numbers guy, Paul Ryan sure has a lot of problems with numbers and the truth.
He appears to “borrow” a story about his daughter’s name from Kurt Cobain, he was called out as a “liar” over his marathon time, he claims to be a mountaineering superstar despite nothing to back up his story, and he tells a drooling media about his body fat content that is remarkably on par with the dopers of the Tour de France.
Nothing Paul Ryan says should be taken seriously because he’s been tangled in so many distortions.
During his debate with Vice President Biden, besides being caught red-handed requesting pork from the stimulus and Obamacare, he asserted that there were six studies that proved the Romney-Ryan tax plan was feasible. The only problem is, they don’t. In fact, most of the “studies” are actually only blog posts.
Once again, Paul Ryan found it impossible to tell the truth.
Romney’s tax plan is a three-legged stool that doesn’t stand. Here’s how it works — or doesn’t. Romney wants to 1) cut tax rates across the board by 20 percent, 2) cut tax expenditures to pay for these tax cuts, and 3) maintain progressivity. The problem, as the Tax Policy Center pointed out, is there aren’t enough tax expenditures for the rich to pay for all the tax cuts for the rich. Romney’s plan only works if he cuts out the tax cuts for the rich, raises taxes on the middle class, or explodes the deficit. In other words, Romney can pick two, and only two, of his tax goals — what Matt Yglesias of Slate calls the “Romney Trilemma”.
That sound you hear is the three-legged stool falling down.
All this hasn’t stopped a fight against the tyranny of arithmetic. The defenses of the Romney tax plan generally fall into three broad categories. The first assumes the plan will set off magic growth of the monster variety; the second assumes Romney defines “middle-class” differently than he does; and the third assumes Romney would eliminate tax expenditures he has indicated he would not eliminate. Let’s briefly consider the six such “studies” that Ryan cited — most are actually blog posts — in turn.
Click through to The Atlantic for the details, but really, this pattern of lying has to stop.: The 6 Studies Paul Ryan Cited Prove Mitt Romney's Tax Plan Is Impossible - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic
Instead of breathlessly reporting on the gym workout program of the adult frat boy, how about the media focus on important issues such as facts, and Romney/Ryan’s penchant for lying? Oh, and that little issue of Mitt Romney’s full tax release and whether or not Mitt Romney sought IRS amnesty when he closed his secretive Swiss bank account (in other words, he broke the law).
What else can you say about a political party that believes it makes sense to have an anti-science crazy like Todd Akin on the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology committee?
|14-10-2012, 11:56 AM||#100 (permalink)|
Here are the top ten worst lies told by Biden during the debate:
Update - Honorable Mention: "There's not one Democrat who endorsed his...plan." Biden lied--as Ryan pointed out, amidst the Vice President's interruptions--about the fact that Ryan had worked with both Democratic Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon and former Clinton budget director Alice Rivlin in developing his entitlement reforms. While it's true that neither have endorsed the Romney-Ryan ticket's separate plan--which is different--Ryan's own plans, to which Biden referred, were endorsed by Democrats, and Biden knows it.
10. "With all due respect, that’s a bunch of malarkey....not a single thing he said is accurate." At the outset of the debate, Biden tried to paint Ryan as a liar--when Biden, in fact, was the one lying. Ryan had pointed out: 1) that the White House had distanced itself from the Cairo embassy's apologies on 9/11; 2) that Obama had failed to speak up for Iranian protestors in 2009; 3) that the Obama administration called Syria's dictator a "reformer"; 4) and that the Obama administration is imposing defense cuts and projecting weakness. All of that is true.
9. "The president has met with Bibi [Netanyahu] a dozen times....This is a bunch of stuff." While they have met several times--not a dozen--that includes a meeting at which Obama made the Israeli prime minister enter the White House through a back entrance, refused to take a picture with him, and left him on his own for dinner. Specifically, Ryan had criticized Obama's refusal to meet Netanyahu in New York last month, and to tape talk show interviews instead--a clear snub that sent the wrong signal, again, to Israel's enemies.
8. "Just let the taxes expire like they’re supposed to on those
millionaires." Biden's "millionaires" are actually households earning more than $250,000 a year, which includes many middle-class families with two earners, and small business owners in particular who report business earnings as personal income. Biden and Obama have repeatedly labeled those earning over $250,000 as "millionaires and billionaires," distorting the actual impact of their tax plan on the non-millionaires it would hit hardest, who create a vast proportion of small business jobs.
7. "You know, I heard that death panel argument from Sarah Palin. It seems that every vice presidential debate, I hear this kind of stuff about panels." Biden's cheap shot against Palin was an attempt to diminish both her and the man sitting across from him. But Palin never talked about "death panels" in her debate with Biden, for the simple reason that Obamacare had not yet been proposed. Nor did Ryan mention "death panels"--he had addressed the undeniable fact that Obamacare proposes a board to impose cost controls.
6. "The congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for." Biden's lie about Ryan's budget was an attempt to dodge responsibility for lax embassy security--and to cover up that the Obama administration called for new cuts to embassy security just days after the 9/11 attacks. Ryan's proposal, which called for a 19% overall decrease in non-defense discretionary spending, does not even mention embassy security--the Obama campaign merely made up that number by applying 19% across the board.
5. "No, they are not four years closer to a nuclear weapon." Biden's attempt to lie about the glaring reality of the Iranian nuclear program fell flat. Iran is indeed four years closer to a nuclear weapon, and the Obama administration--believing it knew better than its predecessors--tried to reinvent the wheel on talks with Iran, causing frustration to our allies in Europe and the Middle East. Meeting after meeting this year has failed to produce results, and the loophole-filled sanctions, while hurting Iran somewhat, are not stopping its nuclear program.
4. "No religious institution, Catholic or otherwise...has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact." No, it is not a fact--it is the opposite of a fact, and saying "that is a fact" does not make it any less a blatant lie. The Obama administration is forcing religious institutions to provide contraceptive and abortion drugs through their insurance policies. That is the reason several dozen religious institutions are suing the administration to defend their First Amendment freedom of religion.
3. "It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card...I was there. I voted against him." Biden voted for both the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war. He did not vote for George W. Bush's plan to extend coverage of Medicare to prescription drugs (though he voted for an earlier, similar proposal), nor did he vote for the Bush tax cuts. But he voted for both of the wars he derided last night. To quote Bill Clinton's speech to the Democratic National Convention: "It takes some brass to attack a guy for doing what you did."
2. "What we did is we saved $716 billion and put it back -- applied it to Medicare." Biden repeated the lie the Obama administration has been telling since before Obamacare passed in 2010: that cuts to Medicare today were savings that extend the life of the program. They would be--if the same $716 billion wasn't also being used to pay for Obamacare. As Ryan pointed out in 2010, and again last night, you can't double-count the same cuts. Taking $716 billion out of Medicare means exactly that--and hurts, not helps, the program's solvency.
1. "Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security again." Biden lied through his teeth about the fact that the administration--specifically, the State Department--had been told again and again that security on the ground in Libya, and in Benghazi in particular, was inadequate. The day before, in Congressional hearings on the Libya attacks, former regional security director Eric Nordstrom described his frustration with having those requests turned down by the government bureaucracy: "For me the Taliban is on the inside of the building."
And get this, Team Obama is getting ready to throw Hillary under the bus and Bubba isn't too happy!
Fact Check: Top Ten Worst Lies by Joe Biden in VP Debate
|Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)|
|Thread Tools||Search this Thread|