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    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    The Mexico Thread

    I've decided to start a thread about Mexico. Anything involving the politics, history, culture, media of mexico.

    I intend to put up some movies, books (authors) and relevant current event and historical info in this thread.

    I've traveled from the southern Mexican border with Guatemala to the northern border with the USA by bus. I've been to Mexico 3 times. It's one of my favorite countries. Friendly warm people with big cities, ocean coastline, mountains, canyons, cowboy town with swinging doors, valleys, history, art, and culture.

    Just to get started here is a brief intro:

    ............

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    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    Some technical info on getting Mexican citizenship & passport.

    Against tide, some seek Mexican citizenship
    Chris Hawley
    Republic Mexico City Bureau
    May. 25, 2006

    MEXICO CITY - Some came for love. Some came for work. Others just wound up here and decided to stay.

    On a recent sunny day, 50 immigrants from the United States, China, Italy, Spain and elsewhere rose to their feet before a crowd of dignitaries and took a life-changing step: They became Mexicans.

    "Citizens," President Vicente Fox intoned. "Do you renounce your nationality of origin . . . to assume all the rights and obligations that the acquisition of Mexican nationality confers?"
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    "Yes, we renounce it," the immigrants said, and the crowd broke into applause.

    With a half-million Mexican migrants leaving their country for the United States each year, Mexico itself may seem an unlikely Promised Land. But last year, at least 4,349 people from other countries became naturalized Mexicans, up more than sevenfold from 510 in 1995. And that's not counting the 98,019 Mexican-Americans who have reclaimed their Mexican citizenship since 1998.

    The rise is partly due to new laws relaxing Mexico's immigration rules.
    Some of the new Mexicans are poor people who want to become part of Latin America's strongest economy. Others are professionals who see advantages in having two passports in a globalized world.

    Most naturalized Mexicans come from Guatemala, followed by Colombia, Cuba and China, the Mexican Foreign Ministry says. The April naturalization ceremony included a Spanish writer, a British housewife, a Cuban chemist, an Argentine pastry chef, a Russian orchestra conductor, an Italian priest and a U.S. businessman.

    Mexico's rise in immigration is part of an international trend, as people increasingly move from country to country in search of work. Mexico's per capita income of $5,910 is the highest in Latin America and has risen 56 percent since 1995, making the country an attractive destination for people from poor regions.

    But there are native-born Americans, too, among the ranks of naturalized Mexicans.

    Frank Goebel, a U.S. businessman who used to live in Phoenix, decided to get his Mexican citizenship after marrying a Mexican woman. "It just seemed like the natural thing to do," he said.

    In all, about 1,200 native-born Americans have become Mexicans since 2000, the Foreign Ministry says. The Mexican government is hoping the U.S. Congress will eventually confer preferential treatment on Mexico when it comes to issuing work visas. If that happens, a Mexican passport could be a valuable thing to have.


    The United States has 11 million to 12 million undocumented immigrants, at least half of them Mexican. President Bush has called for reforms that could legalize those migrants and allow them to apply for citizenship.

    Becoming Mexican

    Under Mexican law, any foreigner living legally in Mexico on a work or residency visa for five years can apply for citizenship. Applicants must prove they are proficient in Spanish and pass a test on Mexican history and culture.


    The waiting period drops to two years if residents are married to a Mexican, give birth to a child in Mexico or provide a "special benefit" to Mexico. Big investors, actors and professional athletes often get this special treatment.


    Candidates for citizenship used to have to have an FM-2 visa, which forbids residents from leaving Mexico for more than 18 months during a five-year period. But in 1998, Mexico began allowing residents with the less restrictive FM-3 visa to apply for citizenship, too. It also reduced the residency requirement from five years to two years for anyone from Latin America, Spain or Portugal.

    Technically, foreigners are required to renounce their citizenship of origin when they become naturalized Mexicans. Any naturalized citizen caught using a foreign passport or living abroad for more than five years could be stripped of his or her Mexican citizenship, said Sandra Elisa Hernández Ortíz, director of legal affairs for the Foreign Ministry.

    But, in practice, most foreigners keep their old passports,
    immigration lawyer Federico Vergara said. As long as foreigners agree to be treated as Mexicans when in Mexico and not seek diplomatic help if they get into legal trouble, Mexican authorities usually look the other way, he said.


    The U.S. government does not recognize the renouncing of U.S. citizenship, so an American who becomes a naturalized Mexican continues to be a U.S. citizen in the eyes of the United States, according to the U.S. Embassy.

    Another passport

    Americans make up only a small part of the new citizens, but that is partly because the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement made it easier for Americans and Canadians to get residency visas in Mexico, meaning there is less incentive for them to become citizens, said Jesús Pérez Cisnero, an immigration lawyer in Mexico City.However, foreigners who do become citizens reap some nice benefits: They can directly own oceanfront property without setting up a complicated legal trust. They can get Mexican bank loans and finance homes more easily. And they can work in Mexico without visas.

    Despite the steep increase, the number of people immigrating to Mexico is still tiny compared with those immigrating to the United States. A total of 537,151 foreigners, including 63,840 Mexicans, became U.S. citizens in fiscal 2004.

    But for people from other countries, Mexican citizenship is increasingly seen as a resumé-builder.

    "It's a very valuable thing to have because you can work and get credit without problems," said Venezuelan Geraldine Itriago, who became a citizen during the ceremony in Mexico City. She held a folder containing her red, white and green certificate of naturalization.
    Entire: Against tide, some seek Mexican citizenship

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    American Ex-Pat community in Guadalajara is said to be close to 250,000. I think Mexico "was," a decent retreat. Now, no thanks. BTW, I grew up in San Diego and spent most of my waking hours in Baja. As for mainland Mexico, I prefer the Pacific coastal side.

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    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    Betty Boo, I think that's Penelope Cruz. I think she's Spanish as from Spain, but I won't kick her out of bed for having crumbs in it.

    As for the expat US community in guadalajara, yes it's huge. I passed by there traveling and stayed nearby. I want a small peaceful place. Just a few foreigners to mingle with but I enjoy the company of Mexican people.

    I've traveled Through Mexico by bus from the Southern borger of Guatemala to the northern border of Texas.

    I spent time on the coasts, and interior. One of my favorite countries - but I must remember, I was traveling and on a holiday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    Veracruz, Mexico.
    Where one of my best friends lives. He is a builder and developer there but is British from Nottingham. I have been trying to get him to post here for years.





    Miss the food but not the wild west aspect of Mexico these days. Tacos Pastor, the Mexican kebab, or shawarama

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    ^^^I'll be there in October (San Carlos, Sonora). If that is an example of the available fare, I think I'm going to like it.

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    I went to Cancun about 20 years ago for a holiday. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Nice place, nice people and great food. Mexico today though is pretty much fucked thanks to the so called war on drugs. Over 50,000 people dead over the last 3-4 years alone simply because Uncle Sam says you can't use cocaine.
    I have never really understood why certain drugs are banned and others are OK ? A funny old world we live in don't you think ?
    Treat everyone as a complete and utter idiot and you can only ever be pleasantly surprised !

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnt View Post
    American Ex-Pat community in Guadalajara is said to be close to 250,000. I think Mexico "was," a decent retreat. Now, no thanks. BTW, I grew up in San Diego and spent most of my waking hours in Baja. As for mainland Mexico, I prefer the Pacific coastal side.
    I grew up in OC and have spent mucho time in Mexico. My favorite area is also the west coast - Puerto Escondido in Oaxaca was still pretty much 'unspoiled' as of a couple years ago.

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    ^Try Puerto Azul? Puerto Escondido used to be great. Went to Xtapa years ago and enjoyed it, but even then Bandito's were common. My first trip to the interior was a bit of a wake up call as I deplaned and walked to the baggage claim area I noticed armed guards all over the place. Sub-machine guns at the ready. I wondered, what kind of place is this? Mexico City was 21 million back in the 90's and they said that was only counting the people with mail boxes. The hillsides around Mexico City are filled with squatters shacks. Same all over S.A. major cities. Poverty rules the day. In Peru they put metal grills over their cars headlights and rear lights so they cannot be easily stolen. Same in many of these countries.

    I toyed with the thought of Cusco as a retirement home, but the political situation in the country is to erratic. Nice place but shaky government.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat Black Heart's Avatar
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    A little piece on the history or Mexico.


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    Thailand Expat Black Heart's Avatar
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    To respond to a harsh comment made to me today:

    I like learning more about Mexican history, food, and the regions from time to time.

    My parents live 45 minutes (in the US) from the Mexican state of Sonora.

    I can read Spanish language newspapers and understand 95+% of it.

    I can listen to any newscast in Spanish and understand 90% of it.

    I've traveled through the entire country by bus slowly, loving every minute of it.

    I've also been (yuk) the one week tourist at resorts.

    I think this thread can be of interest to those who are interested.

    If someone is not (bsnub) that's OK. You don't have to participate.


    Good day, sir.
    As of March 15, 2016, I have 97Century Threads.

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    and there was me expecting to see a MK 1 or 2 Ford Escort

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart View Post
    To respond to a harsh comment made to me today:
    I think this thread can be of interest to those who are interested.
    It's a good one, M/M so don't let these Nattering Nabobs of Negativism dissuade you, man.

    Ever been to Oaxaca? Puerto Escondido?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    OK, where, and give us some details...
    Tijuana, Ensenada, Rosarito Beach, Cabo, PV, La Paz. I grew up on the west coast it is a righ of passage to go down there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    To respond to a harsh comment made to me today
    I just dont understand why you created a new nick? You where not jailed.

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    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    To respond to a harsh comment made to me today
    I just dont understand why you created a new nick? You where not jailed.
    I remember Milkman/barbaro once posting that he had a spreadsheet to keep track of all his logins/nicks over various forums. Which was weird.

    So anyway, Mexico... I like the food.

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    Thailand Expat Black Heart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    To respond to a harsh comment made to me today
    I just dont understand why you created a new nick? You where not jailed.
    There is nothing to understand.

    No, I have never been jailed here.

    Please return to topic.


    Good day, sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson
    I remember Milkman/barbaro once posting that he had a spreadsheet to keep track of all his logins/nicks over various forums. Which was weird.
    Looks like he lost the TD entry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    To respond to a harsh comment made to me today
    I just dont understand why you created a new nick? You where not jailed.
    I remember Milkman/barbaro once posting that he had a spreadsheet to keep track of all his logins/nicks over various forums. Which was weird.

    So anyway, Mexico... I like the food.
    I wonder if he knows that changing a nic doesn't change the persona . . .

    Mexico.

    Excellent place, wonderful people, great food, exceptional culture, amazing traditions

    Last time I was in Mexico was thanks to a tourism authority in this region - whirlwind trip, three days.

    My Spanish, which I learned at Uni and in Chile was useless in comprehension - Mexicans speak very, very fast . . . unlike Chileños, Argentinos or Uruguayos . . . (the only three places I've been in South America, aside from Brazil - Portuguese, though)

    Working in San Diego made the day trips to Mexico mandatory, but whats near the border isn't Mexico

    Ant's right . . . food. Good/great/fantastic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ltnt View Post
    American Ex-Pat community in Guadalajara is said to be close to 250,000. I think Mexico "was," a decent retreat. Now, no thanks. BTW, I grew up in San Diego and spent most of my waking hours in Baja. As for mainland Mexico, I prefer the Pacific coastal side.
    I grew up in OC and have spent mucho time in Mexico. My favorite area is also the west coast - Puerto Escondido in Oaxaca was still pretty much 'unspoiled' as of a couple years ago.
    I didn't think it was "unspoiled" in the 80s. We used to camp on the beach where they built Huatalco. Loved taking the pre-WWII DC3s up over the mountains to Oaxaca my favorite town in Mexico.

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    Thailand Expat Black Heart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    To respond to a harsh comment made to me today
    I just dont understand why you created a new nick? You where not jailed.
    I remember Milkman/barbaro once posting that he had a spreadsheet to keep track of all his logins/nicks over various forums. Which was weird.

    So anyway, Mexico... I like the food.
    I wonder if he knows that changing a nic doesn't change the persona . . .

    Mexico.

    Excellent place, wonderful people, great food, exceptional culture, amazing traditions

    Last time I was in Mexico was thanks to a tourism authority in this region - whirlwind trip, three days.

    My Spanish, which I learned at Uni and in Chile was useless in comprehension - Mexicans speak very, very fast . . . unlike Chileños, Argentinos or Uruguayos . . . (the only three places I've been in South America, aside from Brazil - Portuguese, though)

    Working in San Diego made the day trips to Mexico mandatory, but whats near the border isn't Mexico

    Ant's right . . . food. Good/great/fantastic
    I've been to 33 countries, lived in 4.

    Mexico is top 1-2-3.

    The food is delicious and there are lots of varieties based on region. I could not even recognize the dishes. That's what I realized as a youngin' that the Mexican restaurants in the US - run by Mexican families were serving a mix of North American/Mexican mix. (True for most 'foreign' restaurants that operate abroad of course.)

    I first went in 1998. In 1995 I went from the Guatemalan border to the US border by bus. Great buses and bus system. Great value. I was able to travel slowly and go and see anything I wanted: you have cities, mountains, two coasts of beach and water, canyons, ruins, etc.

    The currency rate to USD is still good.

    I think right now is a good time to go.

    But with my job obligations, I'm just sitting on my travel fund. When a change happened I'll do a trip and study Spanish again at the Spanish language academies.

    As for Mexican Spanish, yes it's spoken very quickly and there is a lot of vowel reduction.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnt View Post
    American Ex-Pat community in Guadalajara is said to be close to 250,000. I think Mexico "was," a decent retreat. Now, no thanks. BTW, I grew up in San Diego and spent most of my waking hours in Baja. As for mainland Mexico, I prefer the Pacific coastal side.
    Have to agree with you Itnt. I think we have previously discussed spending an awful lot of time in Baja. I spent quite a bit of time on the mainland as well, mostly fishing. Mexico was where I was going to retire and I prepared for many years to make the move. I had the Dodge diesel truck with 5th wheel trailer and had a spot at the tip of Baja where I was going to purchase a palapa.

    I had more than a few good times south of the border from the age of 18 to 50. Then everything changed. The Mexicans figured out how to raise prices so that the cost of living increased 10 fold, for the gringos that is. Then the drug cartels started their thing and Mexico was no longer a place to go and feel safe. I used to camp out in the sand dunes with my dog and was never hassled. Now there are numerous stories of gringos being murdered while camping out in remote areas.

    The final insult that made me rethink my entire plan was the Policia hassling the gringos and hitting them up for bogus traffic citations. I had two my final trip down and that was it for me. Yes, Mexico used to be a great place to go blow off some steam and very cheaply. Things change over time and Mexico changed a lot, and not for the better.

    So, now I am in Thailand where I feel the cost of living is reasonable and nobody bothers me out in the village. Much like Mexico 30-40 years ago.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by wackyjacky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ltnt View Post
    American Ex-Pat community in Guadalajara is said to be close to 250,000. I think Mexico "was," a decent retreat. Now, no thanks. BTW, I grew up in San Diego and spent most of my waking hours in Baja. As for mainland Mexico, I prefer the Pacific coastal side.
    I grew up in OC and have spent mucho time in Mexico. My favorite area is also the west coast - Puerto Escondido in Oaxaca was still pretty much 'unspoiled' as of a couple years ago.
    I didn't think it was "unspoiled" in the 80s. We used to camp on the beach where they built Huatalco. Loved taking the pre-WWII DC3s up over the mountains to Oaxaca my favorite town in Mexico.
    Well, the Mexican Government did a much better job developing Huatalco than they did with Cancun or PV. The natural geography there lends itself to a better vibe than you can get in any other Mexican resort town.

    Referring earlier to the long surfing beach south of Puerto Escondido where as of a few years ago was 75% unspoiled.

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    ^^^^^ Purto Angel I assume ?

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