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Old 18-01-2012, 08:48 PM   #26 (permalink)
ENT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrabow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT View Post
Not a fact.

Half a litre of water split by 5 amps at 12volts gives me 2,000 k of driving @ 30% petrol reduction in my car, right now.
How big of a solar panel do you need to get 5 Amps? I thought if you step up the voltage VDC you can seperate water faster. Please correct me if I am wrong.
No clue as to PVP size mate.
I assume that they're rated in watts
Stepping up the voltage and stepping up the amps increases gas production, in my experience.

Another reader might have the answer you're looking for.
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Old 18-01-2012, 08:58 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
Your derogatory character snipes are uncalled for takeaways.
Sorry for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
The link I gave to a simple high school experiment concerning the theory of hydrolysis should be easily understood by you, since you seem to enjoy science.
I don't need such a link. I still recall my school days even if they are a long time away. We had that experiment in chemistry classes. I even did it at home. And I do have a basic scientific understanding of the process. And it all comes down to the fact that what you claim to achieve contravenes the laws of thermodynamics.
What I claimed to have achieved is that I can get a 30% reduction in fuel consumption by using a home made hydrolizer fitted to my car motor and battery.

That is all.

The effect achieved does not contravene any laws of science at all.
The link posted is a good read, and easy to follow, you ought to read it, a lot is explained in it, far more than what was explained to me in school, along time ago, too.

My experience has been replicated thousands of times over by everyone from school kids to scientists and hydrogen car manufacturers globally.

Now what is impossible about that?
Are we all deluded and imagining the effects produced?

I don't think so, and my bank balance agrees with me,.
I save 30% on fuel costs any time I use my car.

It is a reality that I can't deny.
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Old 18-01-2012, 09:02 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
Stepping up the voltage and stepping up the amps increases gas production, in my experience.
You cannot step up both amps and voltage. You can step up amps but you lose voltage or can step up voltage and lose amps. The watt are constant and watt = volt x amp.

About your panels. Not knowing your type you can roughly assume a peak production of 200W/m under the condition that the full near equator sunlight hits it directly at 90 angle from quality panels. In reality it is always less.
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Old 18-01-2012, 09:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Ive had experience with working with hydrogen in the lab and its one of those rather nasty materials that you treat with the kind of respect you should show anything that can quickly ruin your day, having a pretty nurse spend all day taking little bits of glass out of my body has never seemed very attractive to me. to honest the idea of compressed hydrogen gas fuel for cars fills me with dread, but then whilst its quite a bit more dangerous than CNG, if you can handle that without too many deaths, I supose hydrogen is possible too.

I think hydrogen is only going to become a widely used fuel if/when they get fusion or molten salt reactors running commercially as these are capable of heating steam to the 800C currently required to create hydrogen gas. I think any renewable or bio fuel systems are going to be more about liquid fuels and electricity.

I saw a documentary in to reinvestigating the hindenburg and amunst things they discovered was that the skin of the blimp was painted with a paint based on aluminium powder and iron oxide..... otherwise known as thermalite, which was then set off by a lightning strike... the law of unintended consequences.

As for the hydrogen generators for cars, the hydrogen part of the system does sound very close to a perpetual energy machine and the guys who sell these machines do not have a coherent logical explanation as to how the hydrogen allows the petrol to burn more effencently, so I am very sceptical. I have sometimes wondered if the effecny gains people say they get comes from the water that I suspect gets injected in tot he air mix with the hydrogen. water injection has been used in the past to improve efficiency and power output... at the cost of piston engine life at various times in the last 100 years
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Old 18-01-2012, 09:26 PM   #30 (permalink)
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^^
When I say "step up the voltage", I was referring to the different voltages used to split the water.
In my car, the voltage is 12v, but the theory states that 1.2v is sufficient.
I altered (stepped up) the amps, at 12v and got more gas.

There are far more refined systems than mine, with voltage regulators and current(amp) regulators, all being experimented with, so it is no surprise that differing results are reported.

Some guys claim to get 75% fuel reduction using so called dry cells.

I used a water bubbler attached to mine and got a further decrease in petrol consumed, between 5-10%.

The theory behind that is that the gas picks up water molecules and "bulks up" the fuel volume.
Apparently this effect was noticed during WW2 when aircraft flying low over the sea found that they used less fuel than when flying at higher altitudes, as they sucked in mist , water vapour off the sea surface.

Last edited by ENT : 18-01-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 18-01-2012, 09:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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^^ Hazz.
The units for sale on the net are not always up to claims made.

The ones I've made are very simple and work fine.
When connected, the only adjustment I make is to turn the fuel screw in by 1/3rd, reducing the fuel flow into the carburettor.

One thing that is noticed by all users of this device is that the motor runs smoother and quieter, and acceleration and power is increased.

My son is also experimenting with these units, and the unit that we're working on now will hopefully give us a 100% reduction in petrol consumption.
He's an engineer and very talented, so easy to work with.

He has orders for and sells the units for $500 each to jet boat owners, who are always looking for innovations that'll give them more time on the water.

It's a bloody simple and obvious step, almost laughably so, but until the unit is tested, we're not going to crow about it. A child could have thought of it!
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Old 18-01-2012, 09:47 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I have seen an aticle where a guy was using frequency and he was getting the desired effect along with combustion at the same time. I will try to dig it up.

Before you beat me up, they were not claiming the fame for efficiency but rather how clean it burnt.
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Old 18-01-2012, 09:55 PM   #33 (permalink)
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^
I'd be interested to read about that.
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Old 18-01-2012, 10:10 PM   #34 (permalink)
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^^If you have not already, have a look at water injection systems. these have been used on piston driven military aircraft and some high performance cars. The water allows you to advance the ignition without knocking. But as I said, it's supposed to knacker the engine over time..... not a problem with 1940's military aircraft

as for flying low over water, you get special conditions which provide enhanced lift. I cannot remember what the effect was called, but the russians did build some seriously large planes that made use of it.
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Old 18-01-2012, 10:18 PM   #35 (permalink)
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^ "Ground effect". Nothing to do with water. Works over land as well.
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Old 18-01-2012, 10:42 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
the unit that we're working on now will hopefully give us a 100% reduction in petrol consumption.
So, it won't need any petrol at all? You really are a genius!
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Old 18-01-2012, 10:44 PM   #37 (permalink)
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^ Time to move this out of Issues and in to MKP I think.
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Old 18-01-2012, 10:47 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I have read up on the stuff. They do not claim that the hydrogen replaces part of the diesel fuel but that the addition of some hydrogen and oxygen makes the diesel fuel burn more efficient. A major difference but may be difficult for you to get. I don't mean that derogatory.

The theoretical maximum for that increase would be 20%. 30% and more are out of the question for diesel.

The theoretical maximum for gasoline engines is claimed to be 30%.

And as always the theoretical maximum won't be achieved in reality.
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Old 18-01-2012, 10:49 PM   #39 (permalink)
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http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:John_Kanzius_Produces_Hydrogen_from_Salt _Water_Using_Radio_Waves






Look at that Radio!!! Simon would flip out.
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Old 19-01-2012, 05:07 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
the unit that we're working on now will hopefully give us a 100% reduction in petrol consumption.
So, it won't need any petrol at all? You really are a genius!
No hydrocarbons in the fuel mix is the goal, hydrogen and oxygen only.
This was the early space programme rocket fuel, and it obviously worked, as history has shown.

The modified unit uses a 12v battery and the amperage is increased by 3 times to 15 amps

We have introduced water into the mix (via a bubbler) along with atmospheric air through the air intake of the motor.
This reduces the risk of back-flash/pre-ignition explosion, as precisely two parts of hydrogen to one of oxygen is necessary for the mix to explode.
The pressure regulator is a simple T-junction in-line of the gas pipe, venting to the atmosphere.

HHO Thailand

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Old 19-01-2012, 05:13 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Demonstration of a home made hydrolizer and explanation of some issues raised about HHO



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Old 19-01-2012, 05:44 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Chiangmai motor show 2008:- HHO





I built my own unit in Pai, Chiangmai, for about Baht 500 in the same year and fitted it to a Suzuki Jeep Petrol/LPG hybrid.

Last edited by ENT : 19-01-2012 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 19-01-2012, 05:51 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Old 19-01-2012, 05:58 AM   #44 (permalink)
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^
I was wondering what your product was, Gerbil.
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Old 19-01-2012, 01:52 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
The modified unit uses a 12v battery and the amperage is increased by 3 times to 15 amps
That gives you a total power of

12V x 15A = 180W

minus the conversion losses of app 50% that makes it less then

100W = 0.136 horsepower


Edit:I forgot that this amount of hydrogen will be burned. If you are lucky you get 50% out of it. So the power driving your car would be a whopping

0.068 horsepower


to run your car. A motor driven lawn mower has lots more.
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Old 19-01-2012, 02:57 PM   #46 (permalink)
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You maths is interesting, but does not relate to the amount of hydrogen produced.

A Thai engineer wanted me to show him how to build a hydrolizer and he similarly did the maths and came to the conclusion that the unit would not work, abandoning his model under construction and walking away muttering, didn't even try it out.

It was a waste of time showing him.
His aunt later got a unit fitted to her car.
She wasn't listening to his bollocks, she listened to her money bag instead.

I drove home from his place that day back to CM, with him as a passenger in my Thai partner's SUV which was running on HHO and diesel, and he still said it didn't work, totally amazing, reckonned it was something else I'd done to the wagon!

I suppose he'd just lost face and I was insulting him by driving the car on HHO.

Without a single exception, every sceptic I've met, heard of, or read articles from, have NEVER attempted to do the experiment, not one of them.

ALL came up with theories as to why the system couldn't work, even if the unit was run in front of them.

I've posted some video links above, one for the benefit of Thai residents and speakers, which should be sufficient visual info on the subject along with commentary in Thai.

The other, in English, explains the simple process, no complex mathematical explanation, just a demo. of hands on approach.

I've given links to sales references and manufacturers and to articles about where they are being used, but no, the 'maths' don't fit!

I've also posted a link with a simple scientific explanation of the process, but no, you, even have decided not to read it as you claim that you don't need to, that you know all about it already.

Yup, you can lead a horse to water alright, but, as in your case, Takeovers, you can't make it drink.

Last edited by ENT : 19-01-2012 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 19-01-2012, 03:02 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazz View Post
^^If you have not already, have a look at water injection systems. these have been used on piston driven military aircraft and some high performance cars. The water allows you to advance the ignition without knocking. But as I said, it's supposed to knacker the engine over time..... not a problem with 1940's military aircraft
...
Aircraft used water/methanol injection not simply water. I made items for it when I was an apprentice. I believe it is to increase power during take-off by effectively increasing the octane rating of the fuel allowing for more ignition advance and more power.
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Old 19-01-2012, 03:25 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I can go along with that, I forgot to mention that advancing the spark by about 2 degrees also helps, but if the hybrid already uses LPG, the spark will already have been advanced by about the same.
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Old 19-01-2012, 04:01 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
You maths is interesting, but does not relate to the amount of hydrogen produced.
It is all about the amount of hydrogen produced.

As I have mentioned in an post 38 I have read up on the system. It is not about burning hydrogen for fuel. It is about using a hydrogen addition to increase fuel efficiency.
It may give you 10 or 15% fuel reduction. I have grave doubts about that but cannot be certain, so I give you this.

Any claim beyond that is pure fabrication.
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Old 19-01-2012, 05:13 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Ok, for argument's sake:

If LPG burns in an atmosphere of oxygen, is it a fuel or not?
If petrol burns in an atmosphere of oxygen, is it a fuel or not?
If diesel burns in an atmosphere of oxygen, is it a fuel or not?
If hydrogen burns in an atmosphere of oxygen, is it a fuel or not?

Obviously it is a fuel, as it burns, producing water, which is exhausted.
In the video showing the gas being ignited, the HHO burns explosively.

As for the theoretical maximum of 30% reduction in fuel consumption that you claim it to be, users of the HHO device claim otherwise.
They claim an actual reduction of about 30%, even slightly higher
Their testimony to that claim is given in both videos on running cars on HHO posted.
In both videos, the presenters claim a 30% reduction in fuel consumption.
I make the same claim.

No one needs to fabricate any evidence about the matter. What would be the point?
I, for one, would gain nothing from doing so.

The mix of oxygen and hydrogen combusts at a high temperature and will indeed assist in the more complete combustion of available hydrocarbon fuel.

In fact, the motor cleans itself, as residual carbon deposits in the cylinders also burn out, and a lot of it is simply exhausted in the first day or so's running with HHO.

This still does not negate the fact that a reduction in hydrocarbon fuel consumption occurs, as the reduction is measurable.
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