The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

Little Chuchok

I dare say that the Catholic Church has a few bucks tucked away...

Texpat

Unless you make a sizeable donation to your local church.

Poor fellas never get any respect.



Cursed to a life of damnation.

Little Chuchok

^looks like i'm fcuked then.

chinthee

I suffer from 4 out of 7. Gluttony, Lust, Greed and Sloth.

Guess I'm on the down escalator.

Begbie

Poor old Mobi.

El Gibbon

Too bad they didn't update the punishment for 'kiddie diddling' by their priests, to an immediate execution and free ticket to hell.

E. G.

Redneck

Im not genetic engineering anything, so guess i'm alright then.

Milkman

The Vatican is an Obsenely wealthy institution. They have gold in London, and other parts of the world. The Vatican has a huge networth.

Popes used to sell tickets to Heaven.

The Catholic church also sent forgiveness vouchers to people before they made a sin, so they could go to heaven. You had to buy these.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

_____________

DrB0b

No particularly accurate, Milky. Sales of indulgences stopped several centuries ago and I don't see what relevance they have to Vatican finances today. If you take into account inalienable assets like artworks and Vatican State property, which in general can't be sold as they're considered part of the Vatican patrimony, then yes, the Church is obscenely wealthy but if you take a more balanced view of wealth, concentrating on liquid assets, it's not obscenely wealthy at all. The Vatican often runs at a deficit. Its yearly operational budget is about 200 million USD. Price Waterhouse Cooper's last audit of the Vatican Bank (real name, Institute of Religious Works) showed that with deposits of 400 Billion USD it made an annual profit of 4 Million USD.

Here's the Vaticans Press Release which went with its 2006 financial statements, Vatican financial statements are public.

On Monday, July 2, 2007 the 41st meeting of the Council of Cardinals for the Study of the Organizational and Economic Problems of the Holy See took place in the Vatican City State. His Eminence Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone chaired it.

The Cardinals examined the 2006 Consolidated Financial Statement of the Holy See and that of the S.C.V. Governorate, both closed with a profit.

As usual, I have the honor of presenting the Consolidated Financial Statement of the Holy See for the fiscal year 2006 with my staff. As a consolidated financial statement, it contains the income and the expenses of the various pontifical administrations that are within the area of consolidation. It includes the 2 Sections of the Secretariat of State, 9 Congregations, 3 Tribunals, 11 Pontifical Councils, the Apostolic Camera, the Prefecture of the Papal Household, the Office for liturgical celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff, the Press Room of the Holy See, the Central Office of Statistics of the Church, 5 Pontifical Commissions and 2 Pontifical Committees, 3 Pontifical Academies and the Institutions connected with the Holy See: the Vatican Secret Archives, the Vatican Library, the Apostolic Almonery, the Synod of Bishops, the Vatican Publishing House, the Vatican Printing Press - L'Osservatore Romano, Vatican Radio, the Vatican Television Center. Moreover, 118 Pontifical Embassies and 9 delegations at International Organizations must be added.The good news for the current operating statement is that, after three consecutive years, it has closed with a surplus of 2.4 million euro, which represents the less significant value, after the results registered both in 2005 (equal to 9.7 million euro) and in 2004 (equal to 3.1 million euro).

I turn now to the analysis of the principal entries of the operating statement, which as usual are expressed in the following four categories:

1) Institutional Activity. This sector encompasses all the Dicasteries of the Roman Curia: the Secretariat of State, the Papal Embassies, the Roman Congregations, the Pontifical Councils, the Synod of Bishops and other Offices. As these assist the Holy Father more closely in his mission as Universal Pastor at the service of the Local Churches and also for the benefit of humanity as promoter of peace in today's world, they do not produce income. This is the significance of the Canon 1271 C.J.C. prescriptions, which invite the Bishops to come freely to the aid of the necessities of the Holy See by supporting its activity, in the same way that Canon 1263 C.J.C. prescribes that the parishes support the activity of the diocesan curia. In 2006 the volume of donations that came from Episcopal Conferences, dioceses, religious Institutes, faithful and various Entities increased from 73.9 million euro in 2005 to 86 million euro in 2006. Within this sector, the most positive results were both in the income from Canon 1271 c.j.c. which rose from 21.5 million euro to more than 24 million euro in one year, for an increase of about 12%, and above all in the volume of contributions from institutions, foundations and other entities which shows significant revenues, equal to 61.2 million euro (against 51.7 million euro in 2005).

As for costs of the entire sector, which are directly connected with the activity of the Roman Curia to assist S. Peter's Successor in his ministry, we can note a rise slightly higher than 5 million euro: from 121.3 million in 2005 to 126.2 million. This variation was due above all to the cost incurred for personnel for the adjustment both of remunerations to the inflation rate and of the compulsory contributions to the pension funds. Also general and administrative costs increased from 13.4 million in 2005 to 15.3 million in 2006, as did those for Papal Embassies and for the maintenance of the Apostolic Nunciatures (from 19.6 million to 20.6 million euro).

Costs for "maintenance and repairs" decreased slightly from 10.4 million euro in 2005 to 9.8 million euro. Also in 2006 the works to consolidate the foundations, the floors and the vertical walls of the building in Piazza di Spagna (seat of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples) continued. Moreover, other expenses for extraordinary maintenance related to the buildings of Sant'Uffizio (for systems replacement), Propilei (for lifts replacement and fronts finishing) and Palazzo Convertendi must be considered.

Therefore, this important sector of the Institutional Activity closed with a deficit of 31 million euro, a decrease compared to the 2005 institutional deficit which stood at 36.9 million euro.

2) Financial Activity. In this sector are included the financial activities of the consolidated administrations, especially those of APSA Extraordinary Section (Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic See).

The above-mentioned increase in contributions partially counterbalanced the serious fall in the net balance profit of the financial sector which closed with a gain of 13.7 million against 43.3 million in 2005. Therefore, a decrease by about 29 million euro occurred, due above all to a sudden, very strong reversal of trend in fluctuations of the rate of exchange, especially of the US Dollar.

Indeed, a net positive fluctuation of 21.7 million euro was registered in 2005 while a net loss of roughly 7 million euro occurred in 2006 due to fluctuations in the rates of exchange. In this sector the results seesaw by nature; I remember that in 2004 a net loss of 11 million euro occurred whereas in 2005, as already said, the fluctuations were positive, equal to 21.7 million euro.

The revenues from coupons and dividends increased slightly, rising from 25.5 million euro to 28.5 million euro in the two fiscal years. Also interest payable increased in comparison with 2005, rising from an amount of 8.1 million to 9.4 million euro.

3) The Real Estate sector closed with a net gain of 32.3 million euro, higher than that of 2005 which stood at roughly 22.4 million. This positive result can be attributed mostly to appreciated values from the sale of some real estate, whereas in 2005 increased values were equal to only 1.3 million euro. In the financial year under examination total costs amounted to about 27 million euro, whereas revenues reached 59.3 million euro.

4) In the activity of the Four Institutions connected with the Holy See the following media concerns are included: Vatican Radio, the Vatican Printing Press -- L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican Television Center and the Vatican Publishing House.

These activities as a whole strongly support the ministry of the Peter's Successor by broadcasting the Pope's voice and image.

The result of this sector is a net deficit of 12.8 million euro; it is substantially due to the negative results of Vatican Radio (about 23.8 million euro) and of "L'Osservatore Romano" (4.4 million euro).

On the contrary, the Vatican Printing Press closed its financial statement with a surplus of 1.3 million euro, as well as the Vatican Television Centre which closed with a profit of 421 thousand euro, against 650 thousand euro in 2005.

Also the Vatican Publishing House closed its 2006 financial statement with a surplus of 1.3 million euro and with a rise of 10 million euro in the volume of the activity. As everybody knows, the exercise and the guardianship of all copyrights (perpetually and all over the world) have been entrusted to the Vatican Publishing House over all the documents by means of which the Supreme Pontiff exercises His teaching.

The last entry of the operating statement pertains to Other Income and Expense. This presents a positive result of 184 thousand euro due to contingent assets from nearly all the consolidated Administrations.

The financial statement was submitted to the examination of the Council of International Auditors and then to the Council of Cardinals for the Study of the Organizational and Economic Problems of the Holy See. On 5 July 2007, I had the privilege of presenting it to the Holy Father. It will now be translated into various languages and sent to the Bishops and the Superiors General of Religious Institutes of Men and Women.

We are now at your disposal to reply to your questions.

[Translation issued by the Holy See]

© Copyright 2007 -- Libreria Editrice Vaticana

__________________

buriramboy

On the plus side prostitution still doesn't seem to be a sin, so DD can still enjoy his trips to soi yodsak in the knowledge he'll still be welcome in heaven.

Little Chuchok

The Catholic Church in NZ is worth an absolute truck load.They own a shitload of leasehold land that would be worth squillions.........

DrB0b

^I'd have thought bazillions?

chinthee

Dr. Bob posts a good in depth article. But, I prefer to remember the Mario Puzo, Godfather type of Vatican. It's more intriguing. All kidding aside, I would suppose there are all sorts of off-balance sheet treasures that don't show up in the official books. Ancient priceless manuscripts, who knows? Who knows if they occasionally liquidate some of those treasures for mad money that who knows what they do with?

I don't trust the official story in this case.

DrB0b

Any reason why you don't trust the story or is it just a hunch?

According to Vatican Law, art treasures belong to the patrimony of the Holy See and cannot be sold. Unlikely somebody could drop a Leonardo or Michaelangelo on the art market without it being noticed anyway

I like the nasty style of Vatican too, got a lot of good books, fiction and non-fiction on that, I'll see if I can do some reviews on them. You'd probably like Andrew Greeley, one of my favourites, a priest, scholar, theologian, and novelist who wrote some great Puzo-esque Vatican gangster novels. He also writes great Vatican non-fiction as well, all sorts of insider's eye-views, fascinating stuff.
Andrew Greeley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

chinthee

^No, I have absolutely no proof, apart from the many conspiracy theories advanced through the eons. It is a hunch, and that hunch is based on the fact that through all the generations of collecting from the Parishes and secrecy, that there simply must be untold unaccounted for (on the official books) treasures.

It would be counter-intuitive in my mind to think otherwise of one of the world's most powerful organizations with such little answerability outside its ranks.

DrB0b

Fair enough.

EmperorTud

No, no Pope of Rome,
No Chapels to sadden my eyes;
No Nuns and no Priests and no Rosary Beads,
Every day's like the 12th of July!

chinthee

I'm reading a fun book now by Robert Ludlum (The Gemini Contenders) that is about a secret order of monks that secreted away the greatest secret of the church when the Nazis were advancing.

Yeah, too much fun in speculation to worry about the truth.