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Mr Earl

This is too bad because an intelligent pilot recognizes that to be an excellent pilot you need the book work too.
I hate to think that being Islamic is synonymous with being stupid but sometimes it sure appears to be the case.
At least for a large part America has endeavored to break down such ethnic or racial stereotypes.
It didn't happen overnight, it took a few generations.

stroller

Still a looong way to go, judging by the comments of some specimen on TD.

I agree with this, yet I don't feel like denigrating an entire faith, I welcome reform movements and I count many followers of these religions amongst my friends.

Sir Burr

Islam cannot reform, or, have a renaissance. Muslims believe the Koran is the literal word of God. End of story. Shias and Sunnis have no divisions when it comes to the Koran.

stroller

Apparently not, see OP.

Besides, it still needs to be interpreted, the volume of literature is evidence.

keda

Sure not by all muslims, though it is easy to be a stickler and never accept anything that's not a firmly established, undeniable and irrevocable trait of every member of a faith or following, in the case of Muslims the Koran is the literal word of God passed to man by Muhamut - by the vast majority of those pulling the shots. So much happier and safer the future for Humankind would be if this wasn't the case!

Anyone can find exceptions, but they're exceptions.

sabang

So do many Christians sb. I don't see how that affects things.
In Judaism, Christianity and Islam you have fundamentalists, reform movements and varying degrees of orthodoxy.

Norton

I believe here in lies the fundamental problem. The Koran, written primarily by the Prophet Mohamed goes far beyond the Bible and other "holy" scriptures in it's breadth of coverage. Mohamed unlike Jesus or Buddha was not only the founder of a religion but also a head of state. As such he included in the Koran the specific laws of the land as well as the moral/religious aspects of life. The law as would be expected covers criminal laws, civil laws and defense of the nation state. In a sense, the "constitution" of the Nation of Islam which integrates religion and state. Jesus on the other hand reminded his followers to obey the laws of the land "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s". Hence, Christianity is very compatible with the laws of any nation while Islam is bound to be in conflict vis a vis Sharia law which was penned 1500 years ago and clearly is unacceptable in todays world. Because these laws are deemed "holy" there is no process to amend them to reflect the changes in social norms which have evolved over the last 1500 years. Specifically attitudes related to crime, punishment and the status of females.

As long as Sharia Law is considered a "holy" law there will always be Muslim leaders who will use it as justification to compel adherents to think and act as if they were living in a world unchanged in 1500 years.

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Eat right, exercise daily, live clean, die anyway.

stroller

Thanks, this topic, for a change, is not about the majority of evil, barbarian hordes commonly known as "Muslims", though.
See OP.

Sir Burr

The bible is a bit different. Nobody disputes that it is comprised of many different tracts of different ages by different authors.
The Council of Nicea where it was decided which tracts should make up the bible is a historical fact.

The Koran is the word of God passed through one man. Very different from the bible. Islam also claims that Mohammed is the last and final prophet, which sort of slams another door.

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Phuket - Veni Vidi Veni

Norton

Reform always comes from the young. At this time there is no single head of Islam so each individual has to decide how they will interpret and practice the religion. For the people living in nations with moderate Islamic societies, the young voices will be heard and eventually the young will be the next generation of leaders so the move to further moderation in those nations will continue.

I do not believe, the Islamic youth of these moderate nations will have much impact on hard core fundamentalist nations in the Middle East. If Islam had a single leader such as the Pope is to Catholicism, there may be hope in moving the entire religion toward moderation. Unfortunately, fragmentation and disunity prevail throughout the religion. Likelihood of change in the countries that need change the most is very small!

sabang

"All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting tthings straight, for disciplining in Righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

- 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

Not so different, is it? And the basis for many an orthodox Christians view of the Bible- Pentecostals, the original Protestant reformation, Jehovahs Witnesses, Quakers, several churches. Like the Moslems, the fundamentalist Christian doctrine is there should be no seperation of Church and State, i.e. a theocracy.

Words are words, but the devil is in the detail- interpretation. There are plenty of moderate Moslems around, plenty of highly accomplished and educated Moslems. Plenty of secular Moslems too. Plenty of secular Moslem states too for that matter. Non secular Moslem states- Saudi, Iran, Afghanistan. Any more?

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To err is human. To blame someone else is politics.

Driventowin

I hear this all the time and I always find myself asking the same question...So AK-47's, bombs, computers to post rhetoric, equipment/facilities to train and arm terrorists, etc. etc. etc. are all free??

What kind of real progress do you suppose these supplies and finances could make if they were devoted towards more peaceful purposes??

Say computers for schools instead of fanatical rhetoric or posting of be headings.

Food instead of AK-47's

Fuel instead of bombs

Education (and not madrasa style either) instead of rhetoric. There in lies the real rub.. The fanatics and even admittedly, many Arab leaders don't want their followers to be educated, it undermines their rhetoric and renders them impotent..

I might also point out that recently there was a couple of Mercedes owners in England that tried to use them as car bombs on the streets and then also drove an SUV into the airport in Scotland to try to blow it up.....They were doctors..

Clearly education is not the end all, be all, either, but the numbers would drop measurably if education was premium..

I'd like to know what verse in the Koran justifies AQ to use mentally disabled women to blow people up as was just done in Iraq?? Maybe someone can answer that burning question for me??

Before all of this began on 9/11 Osama Bin Laden was a multimillionaire AKA a potential Mercedes owner many times over. But what did he choose to do with his money? Squander it on destruction, misery and hatred when he could have made a much more positive legacy for himself, his religion and influence in the world ala Martin Luther King for example... Instead now untold millions of his money is tied up in banks around the world, making the bankers rich not doing a damn thing positive for any Muslims..

What if this world wide organization that is obviously not inept were to take all of those resources and wasted negative energies and redirect them into a positive and uplifting goal of their claims of a better world for all Muslims??

Which technique do you think would draft the higher number of new followers for Islam??

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Silent but deadly.....

sabang

Yep, definitely agree there.


None. Just nasty people misconstruing words to suit their own agendas, as has happened throughout history. Religion is so often used as the medium of bigotry and hate- the Moslems sure do not have a monopoly on that.

stroller

That's rather simplistic. You make it sound as if beheading videos are shown in schools as a matter of education, and AK-47s handed out in the streets.
It is not a question of replacing one with the other, these are different financial sources with different target groups.
But a people with a wider education, self-worth and economic opportunities is less likely to fall prey to extremist rhetoric - or so the theory.

Exactly.

I suspect this is the wrong place to ask, try one of the Islamist forums.

I'd say "all this" began much earlier, and it's a useless speculation - AQ are what they are.

But this thread is about one example of a positive initiative, is it a good idea with potential?

Driventowin

^BumpThere's no question, just another justification and reasoning for my own reluctance to be "religious"...

I'd like to know what verse in the Koran justifies AQ to use mentally disabled women to blow people up as was just done in Iraq?? Maybe someone can answer that burning question for me??

Driventowin

If you insist, but just answering this makes for a very short thread though without very much exchange of points of view or ideas..But I guess that suits your purposes...You probably should have just presented it as a poll then..

The short answer is.....Maybe...

stroller

If everyone limits themselves to a single word answer, it would be.
But I am sure we can exchange points of view within the subject matter without diverting the focus to AQ and militant Islam - there are other threads for this.

I posted this in the religion/philosophy section to attract maybe a different perspective on the positive potential of Islam.

Driventowin

^Well unlike you, I will take the adult approach and the high road and show some respect for the topic and NOT sabotage your thread mercilessly into MKP like you ultimately do to nearly every one you post on..

My points however are relevant to the OP. Just because your point of view is