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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Hope yo don't plan on swimming in your pool - copper is a nasty carcinogen.

    Change to a salt system - you will never regret it and it's a lot less hassle. Also, you have an unlying problem with your pool if this is always happening. Have you back washed your filter recently?
    You sound like you operate a swimming pool supply business similar to Mr Pools

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by beerlaodrinker View Post
    I did hear thwt aluminium sulphate which is cheap and easily found here doesnt do your pump or plumbing any favours better to just use a flok.
    I use aluminum sulphate as a floc only and pump to waste when vacuuming the pool and have never had a problem caused by using it in 8 years
    Paid 500 baht for the last 50KG bag i bought
    I have a 25KG bag of copper sulphate on order for 2250 baht delivered to phuket, 90 baht a KG is a excellent price for it

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Hope yo don't plan on swimming in your pool - copper is a nasty carcinogen.

    Change to a salt system - you will never regret it and it's a lot less hassle.
    Copper Cu is allowed 2ppm for drinking water, i. e. 8 - 10 ppm copper sulphate. And we swim in that water, not much drinking.
    CS is used for many food processing, the vineyards have been treated for centuries by CS.

    When you search for "swimming pool water, cancer" you will get hundreds of links about "carcinogen". Haven't found any about CS - unless the threatenings by pool shops.

    The problem with chlorine - beside the impact on skin, ears, eyes - the vapors lay on the water surface as they are heavier than air. And if there is not much draft around - especially at skimmer pools with risen walls - the only disposal of the vapors is by deep breathing of the swimmers.

    Additionally, the long term chlorine (organical) contains cyanids as protection against sunshine. The cyanids do not evaporate, once they reach certain level - and you do not drink too much - you have to buy a special measurement for that, they slow down the chlorine effect, the pool shop advice is: exchange the water few times a year - and buy new chemicals for the new chemical maintaining...

  4. #29
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    Simple fact, in the 20 days before i used copper sulphate in my pool i super chlorinated it 3 times 2 times with 4 cups of granulated chlorine and the last time with 6 cups of granulated chlorine and the green algae still came back and no way would i let my grandchildren swim in the pool with that high level of chlorine in it
    Since using copper sulphate in the pool a few days ago the water has been Crystal clear and sparkling and even a small patch of black algae that i have not been able to get rid of for years has disappeared
    The children are back swimming in the pool with no problems
    I am back to using 3 inch chlorine tables in a dispenser which i put in the skimmer box when to pool pump is running at 4 hours a day and put into my spa on the side of the pool which overflows back into the pool and draws its water supply from the deep end of the pool , i turn the spa on for 30 minutes to flush the chlorine out of once the filter pump is running again

  5. #30
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    ^ I bought Copper Sulphate on Lazada, just gave the pool a dose, certainly looked better after only an hour.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airportwo View Post
    ^ I bought Copper Sulphate on Lazada, just gave the pool a dose, certainly looked better after only an hour.
    Its 10 days since i put it in our pool and the water is still crystal clear with no algae in it, used 660gm as a double dose and still have enough left to treat it one more time in the future when the copper sulphate is diluted in the future by vacuuming to waset after flocking the pool

  7. #32
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    ^So, compare this easy and cheap maintenance with the majority of others who claim they never need a Copper Sulfate but relying just on the chlorine as the specialists advise.

    Yes, it can be, however - beside the health concern - they need to keep quite high chlorine level 24/7, together with very exact and narrow pH range (otherwise the chlorine does not work), observing the cyanids level (when they use long term chlorine), also observing the correct alkalinity.

    For all of this they need special (and not cheap) devices, frequently calibrated. And of course, prolonged filtration time.

    And beside of this, additionally, once upon a time (weekly?) a shock chlorination with another kind of chlorine (inorganic - no longterm). In that time and afterwards few days, the swimming in the superchlorinated water (5 - 10 ppm) is not really recommendable.

    If you happen to visit swimming pool forums you will see many cries: "help my water is green". And that after they patiently follow any valued advice of the experts, answering all possible questions: "how much do you have this and how do you measure this?". Remains only: how old is your grandmother? The following and curing takes few weeks - until the best swimming days are over.

    So, that's a huge difference for the pool shops serving the customers of chlorine care in comparison with the others of CS.

    Admittedly, a bit of chlorination should be also exercised - once within 3 - 4 days - to get rid of the bad germs that are not affected by CS. And this can be sometimes supplemented (or substituted) by SaanSom - ammonium (potassium) aluminium sulfate - in Thailand so easy obtainable (350 B/30 kg sack) - very miraculous material - ancient disinfectant with flocculation effect.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    ^So, compare this easy and cheap maintenance with the majority of others who claim they never need a Copper Sulfate but relying just on the chlorine as the specialists advise.

    Yes, it can be, however - beside the health concern - they need to keep quite high chlorine level 24/7, together with very exact and narrow pH range (otherwise the chlorine does not work), observing the cyanids level (when they use long term chlorine), also observing the correct alkalinity.

    For all of this they need special (and not cheap) devices, frequently calibrated. And of course, prolonged filtration time.

    And beside of this, additionally, once upon a time (weekly?) a shock chlorination with another kind of chlorine (inorganic - no longterm). In that time and afterwards few days, the swimming in the superchlorinated water (5 - 10 ppm) is not really recommendable.

    If you happen to visit swimming pool forums you will see many cries: "help my water is green". And that after they patiently follow any valued advice of the experts, answering all possible questions: "how much do you have this and how do you measure this?". Remains only: how old is your grandmother? The following and curing takes few weeks - until the best swimming days are over.

    So, that's a huge difference for the pool shops serving the customers of chlorine care in comparison with the others of CS.

    Admittedly, a bit of chlorination should be also exercised - once within 3 - 4 days - to get rid of the bad germs that are not affected by CS. And this can be sometimes supplemented (or substituted) by SaanSom - ammonium (potassium) aluminium sulfate - in Thailand so easy obtainable (350 B/30 kg sack) - very miraculous material - ancient disinfectant with flocculation effect.
    completely agree with you and i do not make my living by selling over priced pool chemicals like you don't as well
    copper sulphate and aluminum sulphate for settling the dirt and clarifying the water about every 6 weeks,and soda ash ( the water is very acidic in Phuket) are my chemicals of choice all very cheap and effective
    Plus 3inch chlorine tablets in a dispenser to kill germs and bacteria
    I

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercallen View Post
    by vacuuming to waset
    If you have meant "to waste"

    Actually, if frequently vacuuming, within 2 -3 days, I run it thru the filter, at least up to half of the pool, observing the outlets unless seeing "clouds" of the dirt, than only re-switching to "waste". In this way I do not lose so much water, hence I do not need so much fresh water for re-filling, hence I do not need so much new chemicals.

    Then, after vacuuming thru the filter, the filter will be backwashed anyway, hence with one go killing 2 birds.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    If you have meant "to waste"

    Actually, if frequently vacuuming, within 2 -3 days, I run it thru the filter, at least up to half of the pool, observing the outlets unless seeing "clouds" of the dirt, than only re-switching to "waste". In this way I do not lose so much water, hence I do not need so much fresh water for re-filling, hence I do not need so much new chemicals.

    Then, after vacuuming thru the filter, the filter will be backwashed anyway, hence with one go killing 2 birds.
    Our pool has a wide paved area around it and i use a power blower to get any leaves and dust away from my pool, apart from the algae problem i had the water is clear now for a long time with no leaves in the pool
    Now the algae has gone i will start vacuuming thru the filter again as i did before the algae became a major problem
    Now the monsoon season has started when vacuuming to waste i block the overflow pipe on the pool and let the pool fill to the top so i use no stored water and the pool water is slowly recycled with fresh water
    I usually do this about once a month

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercallen View Post
    I usually do this about once a month
    Not sure whether I understood it right. Vacuuming once a month? I do not have it much windy (unless a stormy shower), hence usually not so much leaves in pool. However, the small dust from vegetation around, insects and residues from water substances (the water is no H20) is always gathering at the bottom within 1 -2 days.

    And when not disposed of frequently a portion of it will stick to the floor the vacuum would not lift up. Then it will need a brushing.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Not sure whether I understood it right. Vacuuming once a month? I do not have it much windy (unless a stormy shower), hence usually not so much leaves in pool. However, the small dust from vegetation around, insects and residues from water substances (the water is no H20) is always gathering at the bottom within 1 -2 days.

    And when not disposed of frequently a portion of it will stick to the floor the vacuum would not lift up. Then it will need a brushing.
    We have a 2 metre wall around our yard and pool so not very much dust, brush ever time before vacuuming it

  13. #38
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    In my pool I see any small bit laying on the floor, beside the discoloring by a fine sediment within few days.

    Perhaps you do not have the vacuuming gear so handy like me, the hose laying in the open overflow channel. So, just shifting it over the edge, open and close the incoming valves and here we go.

    I know the hassle by others when having to fetch up the hose somewhere, screwing it into a skimmer (?), then fight the air out of the hose that does not like to sink down under the water, hence the pump does not want to suck just the air only... So then once a month is enough for the test of patience...
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    In my pool I see any small bit laying on the floor, beside the discoloring by a fine sediment within few days.

    Perhaps you do not have the vacuuming gear so handy like me, the hose laying in the open overflow channel. So, just shifting it over the edge, open and close the incoming valves and here we go.

    I know the hassle by others when having to fetch up the hose somewhere, screwing it into a skimmer (?), then fight the air out of the hose that does not like to sink down under the water, hence the pump does not want to suck just the air only... So then once a month is enough for the test of patience...
    Our pool is free form ( peanut shaped) with a plastered finish not tiled, it has a sloping bottom 30CM to 2 M at the deep end and the dust and any leaves go to the center of the pool at the deep end, after 2 days of wild weather there is 4 leaves and a small amount of dust, i removed the leaves and left the dust and the pool is clean enough for me.
    As far as getting a air lock in the vacuum hose goes when attaching it to the skimmer box, you attach the hose to the vacuum head and put it on the bottom of the pool , feed the hose into the pool until its full of water then quickly attach it to the hose plate in the skimmer box and the pump does not lose suction and keeps drawing water continuously
    You are definitely more fussy about your pools appearance than i am, no offense meant, horses for courses as the old saying goes

  15. #40
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    Some comments from a previous pool upkeep guy both conventional chlorine managed and salt water. The salt water pool is a far better option here in Thailand. Also keep in mind that pool maintenance is something one has stay on top of. Many owners think running a filter for a few hours a day works. It may if you have a very small pool and the calculation was done properly. The general rule of thumb is you should turn over the water 3 to 5 times a day so if you have a huge pool you need to run your pump a lot longer . Many seem to also have very small pumps for the pool size which causes some of the issues. Owners may run them for 4 hours on a timer but only turned the water over once. Just like calculating for AC units for a room size, you have to calculate volume and GPM pump rate then its just a calculation of time. A few other things I have also noticed here, many do not scrub the pool walls and bottom thus allowing the algae to attach and grow rapidly on the sides. I highly recommend getting an underwater type pool scrubber that moves around and runs off the output side of the pool pump while running. Yes they are expensive but they work outstanding.

    I have been considering a pool again but I read these and it makes me reconsider. Once I retire again and have time I will likely do another pool as I really enjoy being up early and doing some pool work. Its refreshing.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    you should turn over the water 3 to 5 times
    Any own experience with it? I run it ca. 1 - 2 times a day with very little chemical treat and cheap equipment.

    However, with more frequent personal care, scrubbing, vacuuming, backwashing - that also is the purpose of the swimming pool - exercise, not only watching the robot slaves on the CCTV from my couch...

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Any own experience with it? I run it ca. 1 - 2 times a day with very little chemical treat and cheap equipment.

    However, with more frequent personal care, scrubbing, vacuuming, backwashing - that also is the purpose of the swimming pool - exercise, not only watching the robot slaves on the CCTV from my couch...
    I was renting a house here years back with a pool. It was a mess all the time. Took a few weeks to understand why. Pump was undersize. The owner had it set up on a timer to run 2.5 hours. That barely turned the water once. I changed the timer to 3 times about 5 hrs and pool stayed clear. But to your point, pool maintenance is relaxing. I like doing it when I did. I would never hire people to do it for me. Most those guys toss in chems and clean a filter at skimmer. I routinely back washed the system once a month. Its easy. Plus you can check on plumbing and other stuff. Nowadays they have cartridge filter systems which are super easy and even though they say you cant reuse you can numerous times.

  18. #43
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    I've been following this with interest.

    We run the pump around 10 to 12 hours a day to circulate the water. Its on a timer and I split the cycles into two; 8 or so hours during the day to take advantage of direct sunlight and 3 or so hours during the night. I found that running the pump / filter so much meant we could get away with much less chlorine to keep the water clear. Currently we use two to three 200g tabs of chlorine a week but more during periods of heavy rain. I would say the pool is around 100m3 / 100,000 litres volume. The pool is vacuumed on average once a week but more when the rice stubble / sugar cane husks are getting burned.

    From your experience does that seem a reasonable amount of chlorine to use for such a sized pool? We only occasionally get green water, when I'll up the chlorine (maybe shock) which seems to clear the water in a day or so. We do get stubborn algae on the liner in a couple of corners although I don't think that's due to poor circulation since one area is directly in the wash of one of the outlets. I think its more likely to be due to being constantly in the shade.

    I'm pretty sure I can't convert to salt with my system without changing the pump/filter unit. Is there a problem with combining copper sulphate and chlorine? ie try copper sulphate once as a trial to see if it works with the algae and take it from there. Could there be a bad consequence to this?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    We run the pump around 10 to 12 hours a day to circulate the water. Its on a timer and I split the cycles into two; 8 or so hours during the day to take advantage of direct sunlight and 3 or so hours during the night. I found that running the pump / filter so much meant we could get away with much less chlorine to keep the water clear.
    Your water is staying clean and clear due the constant movement and filtering. I wouldn't recommend over filtering it, no need. Most tend to run the pump less due to expense. They believe they are saving money when in fact they spend more on chems and other needs to keep the pool stable. The electricity is cheap. One just needs to find the balance.

    One other thing that is important is pH balance. It can go out of whack here quickly due to the tropical environment and heat. Warm and stagnate and poor filtered water lead to algae. One thing you may notice as well is that a heavily used pool stays cleaner and longer.

    I helped a friend from work here when his pool was constantly green. He was chasing the balance. If a pool get to green it is far cheaper to swap out the water and fill with new. We drained his pool and refilled. Saved him a bunch of money and since then has had no issues that he told me about.

  20. #45
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    ^I cannot agree with all what you write, read what I wrote before re CS and chlorine.

    Once you use CS - and a bit chlorine just for getting rid of the bad germs - no need to care much about pH.
    In contrary, lower pH as they recommend for chlorine care (yes it's necessary should the chlorine kill algae) is not good for ceramic material and their grouting - for the plastic cladding either. And not so cheap either.

    Even for people the doctors recommend higher pH - inside and outside - to compensate our body acidity due to our overly meat food.
    For drinking water the pH is allowed 6.5 - 9.5, not so good for swimming?

    And see my DIY pool - as I watch it momentary from my couch

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  21. #46
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    You are using a different process to manage your lap pool. I personally would never use Cu Sulfate but that is my choice, in the states they banned using Cu piping for pools because if the pH wasn't kept on the alkaline side the Acidic water etched the copper and it remained in the water causing concerns for heavy metal poisoning. Adding Cu Sulfate adds heavy metal. Of course that level of metal saturation would depend on how much one swims. If you swim frequently I would be cautious. Do you measure heavy metal content occasionally. They have those strips that will show metals in suspension

    That said pH monitoring helps keep the water stable and more over comfortable for the people swimming. To high or to low causes rashes and very dry skin. I sustain my pH in my jacuzzi at 7.8 to 8.

    My comments and inputs are for discussion purposes. Which ever method one uses to keep their pool clean and safe is good.

  22. #47
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    ^About the Cu level in drinking water - read above, for swimming not so good? - I referred here to a Canadian govt recommendation. In US not allowed?

    ^About the pH level in drinking water - read above, for swimming not so good? (do you get a rush in the sea water, thermal spa pH>8?)



    Yes, we are here discussing things. However, it's not fair to incite a fear (to people who nothing nothing about the topic) with strong statements without any base ("I would never..", "I would be cautious")
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    its important to have the right sized filter pump, we originally had a poolrite 1.5hp pump which over time pumped less water, i know this because our pump runs 4
    pool jets and a waterfall
    I now have a Emaux SB15 pump and it circulates at least twice as much water as the poolrite did before i replaced it
    its easy to know if my filter needs backwashing by looking at the amount of water flowing over the waterfall and backwash about once a month on average
    When i bought the house the pool had a salt water chlorinater which i realized after a period of time was not working and it was only 6 years old
    i had someone take the cover of the SWC and check what was wrong with it with a multi-meter, it turned out to be a small component which should not cost more
    than 100 baht, i checked around the pool companies but no one was interested in repairing the unit just selling me a new one for 65,000 baht
    I had it removed so no more buying bags of salt and i do not need to run my pool pump for a minimum of 8 hours a day

  24. #49
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    I found managing my pool using chlorine was really quite simple and easy. In fact I had floating Chlorine tab holder and I'd drop in 2 tabs and let's it float while the filter pump ran.

    One thing I think we all learn is that pools are an expensive addition and keeping them in order after is typically not cheap as well and the bigger the more the maintenance.

    But the upside is pools are great to have and fun. It's the only reason I am considering building one again.

  25. #50
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    CS does not give you cancer, over use of chlorine can, CS is used in public drinking water reservoirs to kill algae
    I found out after checking multiple sites on the Internet the correct amount to use, its 100 t0 120 grams per 40,000 litres of water and recommended to use a double amount the first time using it
    There is 1,000 litres to i cubic meter of water, so you measure your pools length x width x depth and muliply it by 1,000 to get the litres of water in it
    Example L 10m x W 5m x D 1.5M X 1,000= 75,000 litres of water, so you use approx 400/480 grams of CP the first time you put it in the pool and it stops in the water and does not evaporate like chlorine and the pool only needs more CP when you regularly backwash the filter or replace the pool water
    I paid 265 baht for my first 1KG bag of CS on Lazada, the price had dropped to 220 baht a 1kg bag the last time i checked the price
    There are plenty of scare mongers on the internet recommending you do not use it but its cheap and works long term
    They are just scare mongers working in the pool industry most of the time trying to sell their over priced cures for algae in my opinion and they do not work long term

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