The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

BillyBobThai · 05-07-2009, 04:06 AM

I have just bought a used Nissan truck, and am wondering if the bio-diesel is ok to use on a regular basis or should I use regular diesel?? I live 250 km north of Bangkok and the only concern I know of is that it might gel in the tank.

Thanks for any help.

Eliminator · 05-07-2009, 10:20 AM

You can get heaters for the tanks if that's your main concern. Nothing wrong with bio diesel as long as it's clean.

blackgang · 05-07-2009, 12:39 PM

There s no Bio-Diesel in Thailand unless you are making it.
The stuff that is in stations is only Petro diesel with 5% palm oil added to it and that is not enough to make it thicken to an extent that it will hurt your pump or nozzles.
If there was Bio Diesel then the country would be better off for it as it is much less polluting than petro diesel.

GS Rider · 05-07-2009, 12:44 PM

Being a used truck you might want to perform an additional fuel filter change at around 5000kms. Bio is known to clean/loosen all the gunk inside the tank this would end up in the fuel filter causing it to block prematurely.

I've never heard of bio diesel gelling and I have used and parked overnight in temps of -3. I think you might have bio confused with SVO or other splash blends.

good2bhappy · 05-07-2009, 01:07 PM

The question is a good one
So the answer is "yes no problem"?

crippen · 05-07-2009, 01:16 PM

Bio diesel 'gels' at about -10 deg c in U.K. Should be no problem here.

Eliminator · 06-07-2009, 08:34 AM

straight bio will gel and or thicken at low temps and that is why they make tank and line heaters for it. Check these sites on Google:

Google

boatboy · 06-07-2009, 08:46 AM

Some of the hoses, metals and rubber seals can be affected by Bio-diesel

http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/biodi...20surveyor.htm

Sure, this is marine info, but the engines are pretty much the same

Quote:

Biodiesel has many beneficial properties and is definetly worth investigating however, it may have some significant drawbacks. Since most information on the product has been presented by organizations promoting it, one has to take a look at the other side of the coin. (1) The principal issue is that biodiesel is a very aggressive solvent. Even USCG Type-A fuel hose is not completely immune. Some metals are also not recommended including copper alloys [common brass valves and fittings?] Any spilled fuel will rapidly attack paint on engines, bilges, etc. Rubber engine mounts will be affected. On deck it will attack paint and bedding compounds { gelcoat? acrylic hatches? boat shoe soles?]. It appears that it may also affect fiberglass tanks if they are not specially coated. It certainly will dissolve and mobilize old scum and deposits in the fuel system. (2) Newer engines with all Viton seals and gaskets can probably use it. Older engines are probably questionable. If the fuel causes any problem, the engine manufacturer may not consider it a warranty issue - it is your problem. (3) Biodiesel is hygroscopic (absorbs water) and perhaps more subject to bacterial action. Biodegradability in the environment is one of its strong points but not good if it happens in your tank. There is not much information on long term storage in a typical pleasure boat environment, i.e. fuel sitting in a hot, humid tank for months and sometimes years. Commercial users and probably most automobiles do not have this problem.

blackgang · 06-07-2009, 08:49 AM

Any Diesel will gel if it gets cold enough, the more oil in it the higher the gel point,They do make fuel additives to prevent this, #2 diesel first and then #1 will do it too but at about -50 F and they make a produck called HEET that you add about a gallon a tank to prevent it from shutting down your engine, but hardly need to worry in most places about that.

blackgang · 06-07-2009, 09:07 AM

EN14214 Biodiesel, B20 Biodiesel, B30 Biodiesel, B100 Biodiesel, B5, B10, Quality Biodiesel, Biodiesel Fuels, Biodiesel Blends, Blended Biodiesel, EN590, Diesel, Derv, Methyl Ester, FAME, Fatty Acid Methyl Ester, Biodiesel Benefits, Vegetable Oils
Biodiesel - What is it?
Biodiesel or Methyl Ester as it's also known, is a clean burning and renewable fuel alternative to mineral diesel made predominantly from vegetable oils.
Biodiesel's physical and chemical properties are very similar to normal diesel, so it can be mixed and used as a blend with Derv or on its own. (Specification comparison)

top
Why should I use Biodiesel?
Commercial benefit
Biodiesel is cheaper than mineral diesel. With fuel bills representing 35% of an operator's costs, using Biodiesel will enable savings to be made. (See potential savings...)
Environmental benefit
The environmental benefits of using Biodiesel will enhance the operator's reputation.
Better ignition and combustion
Biodiesel has better ignition and combustion characteristics (due to a higher Cetane Index), which allows the engine to run more smoothly with less of the "knocking" sounds typical of diesel engines.
Reduces exhaust emissions
Biodiesel substantially reduces exhaust emissions (unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and particulate matter). It contains naturally occurring oxygen, which enables the fuel to burn more completely and all but eliminate the black smoke normally associated with diesel engines. There may be a slight increase in NOx emissions but this is dependant on the engine type and its operating environment.
Improves lubricity & reduces engine wear
Biodiesel has very good intrinsic lubrication properties. Even blends as low as B1 (1% in ULSD) can improve the lubricity in highly de-sulphurised mineral diesel. In engines approved for operation with B100 Biodiesel, the engine wear is significantly reduced.
Fuel consumption
Using Biodiesel as a B20 or B30 blend (20/30% mix with normal diesel) has no reported effect on fuel consumption. Some operators have even suggested it actually improves fuel consumption. There may be a slight increase in fuel consumption when using B100 pure Biodiesel, however the effects are mitigated by the improved ignition and combustion qualities of Biodiesel.
Safer, biodegradable and non toxic
Biodiesel has a higher flashpoint than mineral diesel. It is also readily biodegradable and non toxic, which makes it a safer and more environmentally friendly fuel to handle, particularly in sensitive areas.
Sulphur free
Biodiesel is naturally free of sulphur and so produces no sulphur dioxide, considered to be one of the main precursors to acid rain.
Carbon dioxide neutral
Biodiesel is made from renewable resources, which means it reduces the contribution of carbon dioxide (one of the main greenhouse gases) to the atmosphere.

top
How is Biodiesel used by others?
Biodiesel as a 5% blend with mineral diesel, referred to as B5 Biodiesel is now permitted within the EN590 mineral diesel specification across Europe. There are pressures from within the European Community to increase this ratio, but no agreement has been reached as yet.
In the UK, we recommend that operators consider switching to the B20 or B30 grade. This is a blend of 20/30% Biodiesel with 80/70% mineral diesel. B20/B30 are optimum blends for all year round performance and cost savings. Experienced operators can convert to higher blend ratios up to B100 (100% pure Biodiesel) when UK summer fuel specifications apply, to take full advantage of the benefits and savings Biodiesel can bring. Ready blended B20/B30 grade now available!
In Germany Biodiesel is made from oil seed rape to the European Standard EN14214, and is used extensively as B100 by commercial vehicle and bus operators across Germany. A range of Biodiesel blends in ULSD are also widely used.
American truck and bus operators prefer a blend of 20% Biodiesel manufactured to the US Standard ASTM D 6751 in mineral diesel which is referred to as B20 Biodiesel. The B20 blend currently provides commercial vehicle operators in the US with the optimum cost vs benefit balance.

top
Can I use Biodiesel now?
In a word…YES!… At blends from B5 up to B20/B30, Biodiesel is easy to use. No new equipment and no modifications to existing equipment are necessary. Simply treat it as though it were ordinary mineral diesel. You just need to be aware of the handling characteristics of the fuel particularly if using it in higher concentration blends above B20/B30.
What the engine manufacturers say
Manufacturers provide warranties on their products against failure, where such failure is directly attributable to their own faulty materials or workmanship. Using any fuel, whether it is ULSD, Derv or Biodiesel does not in itself affect the engine manufacturers warranty.
All private and commercial vehicle manufacturers have approved the B5 (5%) Biodiesel blend within mineral diesel.
Manufacturers such as Mercedes in their BR 300, 400, 500 and 900 series engines, DAF in their LF, CF and XF Models, Scania and MAN Trucks, Peugeot Citroen Group have all approved certain models and engine types to use with B30 - B100 Biodiesel. Other manufacturers have adopted different positions regarding the use of Biodiesel and we are able to help with identifying the suitability of a particular vehicle or engine type.
Using Biodiesel as a B5 blend
Biodiesel as a 5% blend in Derv is fully accepted within the EN590 diesel specification.
Using Biodiesel as a B20/B30 Blend
We recommend that operators consider the B20/B30 grade, a blend of 20/30% Biodiesel with 80/70% mineral Diesel. B20/B30 are the optimum blends for year round performance and represents a good balance between cost savings, emissions, cold weather performance, materials compatibility and cleaning effect. Once blended, B20/B30 may be treated exactly like ordinary Diesel.
Ready blended B20/B30 grade now available!
Using pure Biodiesel as B100
Experienced operators can convert to higher blend ratios (up to B100 the 100% pure Biodiesel grade) when UK summer fuel specifications apply. B100 enables full advantage to be taken of the savings and benefits Biodiesel can bring.

The BioRoute service…to help you enjoy the commercial benefits of using Biodiesel
Vehicle suitability - can my vehicles use Biodiesel?
We will evaluate your vehicle fleet profile and determine its suitability for running on Biodiesel as recommended by the vehicle manufacturers.
We will provide you with assistance and support to ensure a smooth conversion to this renewable fuel, with no disruption to your operations.

Biodiesel Storage - can I use my existing diesel storage?
We will evaluate your current diesel storage arrangements and suggest how you can introduce Biodiesel into your fuel mix at the appropriate blend ratio.
Where storage tank capacity is limited, we can arrange to co-ordinate the delivery of Biodiesel, with deliveries from your mineral diesel supplier, to ensure the required blend ratio is maintained.

Supply of Biodiesel?
We will deliver pure B100 Biodiesel to your site to ensure you maintain the required blend ratio in your mineral diesel storage.
You will retain the flexibility to buy your mineral diesel from your preferred supplier

Jesus Jones · 06-07-2009, 10:03 AM

Used veg oil. I used it in my Mits L200 Animal in the UK. I had a heater to heat the oil first, but i don't think that will be a problem here. I don't know why more people don't use used veg oil in Thailand.

blackgang · 06-07-2009, 10:10 AM

Then that would be SVO and used might be OK, but new oil would pobly cost more than diesel, and some of the larger resturants sell their used oil, as I have did a check here to see abouit making Bio diesel and there is no used oil available.

Jesus Jones · 06-07-2009, 10:38 AM

That'll be it then Ted.

GS Rider · 06-07-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgang

Then that would be SVO and used might be OK, but new oil would pobly cost more than diesel, and some of the larger resturants sell their used oil, as I have did a check here to see abouit making Bio diesel and there is no used oil available.

I wonder where all those food carts throw their used oil, probably into the klong whilst no one is looking. I used SVO a few times with no probs and it was used oil too from a chinese food manufacturer. I didn't bother with the whole bio process, just filtered it, mixed with white spirits and a few drops of acetone.

blackgang · 06-07-2009, 06:41 PM

There pobly ain't much that they would throw away and it would be damn well used. and they do buy a lot of bottles at the stores everytime they have it on sale and it is one of the main sale items here.
I have a friend in Calif that uses used fryer oil from a couple of cafes there and all he does is filter it and has a tank heater, but he does start and shut down on diesel as it gets cold there sometimes.

Rural Surin · 06-07-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgang

There s no Bio-Diesel in Thailand unless you are making it.
The stuff that is in stations is only Petro diesel with 5% palm oil added to it and that is not enough to make it thicken to an extent that it will hurt your pump or nozzles.
If there was Bio Diesel then the country would be better off for it as it is much less polluting than petro diesel.

Palm oil. The fashionable future.

blackgang · 06-07-2009, 07:59 PM

Yes, and they are killing thousands of acres of rain forest to get it too, so where is the benefit??

Fabian · 07-07-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgang

but new oil would pobly cost more than diesel

How much is a litre of palm or whatever cooking oil in Thailand?

blackgang · 07-07-2009, 04:57 PM

Palm oil when on sale in stores is 32 to 34 baht a liter and diesel is 27 a liter.

05-07-2009, 04:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
BillyBobThai Nan Last Online: Yesterday 11:53 PM Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Khao Sai-60 km south of Phichit Posts: 163	Bio-Diesel, ok to use in truck?? I have just bought a used Nissan truck, and am wondering if the bio-diesel is ok to use on a regular basis or should I use regular diesel?? I live 250 km north of Bangkok and the only concern I know of is that it might gel in the tank. Thanks for any help.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

05-07-2009, 10:20 AM	#2 (permalink)
Eliminator Thailand Expat Last Online: Yesterday 07:42 AM Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Thailand Posts: 2,145	You can get heaters for the tanks if that's your main concern. Nothing wrong with bio diesel as long as it's clean.

05-07-2009, 12:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
blackgang I am in Jail Last Online: 25-10-2009 08:00 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 13,218	There s no Bio-Diesel in Thailand unless you are making it. The stuff that is in stations is only Petro diesel with 5% palm oil added to it and that is not enough to make it thicken to an extent that it will hurt your pump or nozzles. If there was Bio Diesel then the country would be better off for it as it is much less polluting than petro diesel.

05-07-2009, 12:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
GS Rider Pattaya Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6	Being a used truck you might want to perform an additional fuel filter change at around 5000kms. Bio is known to clean/loosen all the gunk inside the tank this would end up in the fuel filter causing it to block prematurely. I've never heard of bio diesel gelling and I have used and parked overnight in temps of -3. I think you might have bio confused with SVO or other splash blends.

05-07-2009, 01:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
good2bhappy Thailand Travel Forum Last Online: Yesterday 10:21 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Klong Samwa Posts: 10,969	The question is a good one So the answer is "yes no problem"?

05-07-2009, 01:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
crippen Thailand Expat Last Online: Yesterday 07:53 PM Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Korat Posts: 1,252	Bio diesel 'gels' at about -10 deg c in U.K. Should be no problem here.

06-07-2009, 08:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
Eliminator Thailand Expat Last Online: Yesterday 07:42 AM Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Thailand Posts: 2,145	straight bio will gel and or thicken at low temps and that is why they make tank and line heaters for it. Check these sites on Google: Google

06-07-2009, 08:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
blackgang I am in Jail Last Online: 25-10-2009 08:00 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 13,218	Any Diesel will gel if it gets cold enough, the more oil in it the higher the gel point,They do make fuel additives to prevent this, #2 diesel first and then #1 will do it too but at about -50 F and they make a produck called HEET that you add about a gallon a tank to prevent it from shutting down your engine, but hardly need to worry in most places about that.

06-07-2009, 09:07 AM	#10 (permalink)
blackgang I am in Jail Last Online: 25-10-2009 08:00 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 13,218	EN14214 Biodiesel, B20 Biodiesel, B30 Biodiesel, B100 Biodiesel, B5, B10, Quality Biodiesel, Biodiesel Fuels, Biodiesel Blends, Blended Biodiesel, EN590, Diesel, Derv, Methyl Ester, FAME, Fatty Acid Methyl Ester, Biodiesel Benefits, Vegetable Oils Biodiesel - What is it? Biodiesel or Methyl Ester as it's also known, is a clean burning and renewable fuel alternative to mineral diesel made predominantly from vegetable oils. Biodiesel's physical and chemical properties are very similar to normal diesel, so it can be mixed and used as a blend with Derv or on its own. (Specification comparison) top Why should I use Biodiesel? Commercial benefit Biodiesel is cheaper than mineral diesel. With fuel bills representing 35% of an operator's costs, using Biodiesel will enable savings to be made. (See potential savings...) Environmental benefit The environmental benefits of using Biodiesel will enhance the operator's reputation. Better ignition and combustion Biodiesel has better ignition and combustion characteristics (due to a higher Cetane Index), which allows the engine to run more smoothly with less of the "knocking" sounds typical of diesel engines. Reduces exhaust emissions Biodiesel substantially reduces exhaust emissions (unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and particulate matter). It contains naturally occurring oxygen, which enables the fuel to burn more completely and all but eliminate the black smoke normally associated with diesel engines. There may be a slight increase in NOx emissions but this is dependant on the engine type and its operating environment. Improves lubricity & reduces engine wear Biodiesel has very good intrinsic lubrication properties. Even blends as low as B1 (1% in ULSD) can improve the lubricity in highly de-sulphurised mineral diesel. In engines approved for operation with B100 Biodiesel, the engine wear is significantly reduced. Fuel consumption Using Biodiesel as a B20 or B30 blend (20/30% mix with normal diesel) has no reported effect on fuel consumption. Some operators have even suggested it actually improves fuel consumption. There may be a slight increase in fuel consumption when using B100 pure Biodiesel, however the effects are mitigated by the improved ignition and combustion qualities of Biodiesel. Safer, biodegradable and non toxic Biodiesel has a higher flashpoint than mineral diesel. It is also readily biodegradable and non toxic, which makes it a safer and more environmentally friendly fuel to handle, particularly in sensitive areas. Sulphur free Biodiesel is naturally free of sulphur and so produces no sulphur dioxide, considered to be one of the main precursors to acid rain. Carbon dioxide neutral Biodiesel is made from renewable resources, which means it reduces the contribution of carbon dioxide (one of the main greenhouse gases) to the atmosphere. top How is Biodiesel used by others? Biodiesel as a 5% blend with mineral diesel, referred to as B5 Biodiesel is now permitted within the EN590 mineral diesel specification across Europe. There are pressures from within the European Community to increase this ratio, but no agreement has been reached as yet. In the UK, we recommend that operators consider switching to the B20 or B30 grade. This is a blend of 20/30% Biodiesel with 80/70% mineral diesel. B20/B30 are optimum blends for all year round performance and cost savings. Experienced operators can convert to higher blend ratios up to B100 (100% pure Biodiesel) when UK summer fuel specifications apply, to take full advantage of the benefits and savings Biodiesel can bring. Ready blended B20/B30 grade now available! In Germany Biodiesel is made from oil seed rape to the European Standard EN14214, and is used extensively as B100 by commercial vehicle and bus operators across Germany. A range of Biodiesel blends in ULSD are also widely used. American truck and bus operators prefer a blend of 20% Biodiesel manufactured to the US Standard ASTM D 6751 in mineral diesel which is referred to as B20 Biodiesel. The B20 blend currently provides commercial vehicle operators in the US with the optimum cost vs benefit balance. top Can I use Biodiesel now? In a word…YES!… At blends from B5 up to B20/B30, Biodiesel is easy to use. No new equipment and no modifications to existing equipment are necessary. Simply treat it as though it were ordinary mineral diesel. You just need to be aware of the handling characteristics of the fuel particularly if using it in higher concentration blends above B20/B30. What the engine manufacturers say Manufacturers provide warranties on their products against failure, where such failure is directly attributable to their own faulty materials or workmanship. Using any fuel, whether it is ULSD, Derv or Biodiesel does not in itself affect the engine manufacturers warranty. All private and commercial vehicle manufacturers have approved the B5 (5%) Biodiesel blend within mineral diesel. Manufacturers such as Mercedes in their BR 300, 400, 500 and 900 series engines, DAF in their LF, CF and XF Models, Scania and MAN Trucks, Peugeot Citroen Group have all approved certain models and engine types to use with B30 - B100 Biodiesel. Other manufacturers have adopted different positions regarding the use of Biodiesel and we are able to help with identifying the suitability of a particular vehicle or engine type. Using Biodiesel as a B5 blend Biodiesel as a 5% blend in Derv is fully accepted within the EN590 diesel specification. Using Biodiesel as a B20/B30 Blend We recommend that operators consider the B20/B30 grade, a blend of 20/30% Biodiesel with 80/70% mineral Diesel. B20/B30 are the optimum blends for year round performance and represents a good balance between cost savings, emissions, cold weather performance, materials compatibility and cleaning effect. Once blended, B20/B30 may be treated exactly like ordinary Diesel. Ready blended B20/B30 grade now available! Using pure Biodiesel as B100 Experienced operators can convert to higher blend ratios (up to B100 the 100% pure Biodiesel grade) when UK summer fuel specifications apply. B100 enables full advantage to be taken of the savings and benefits Biodiesel can bring. The BioRoute service…to help you enjoy the commercial benefits of using Biodiesel Vehicle suitability - can my vehicles use Biodiesel? We will evaluate your vehicle fleet profile and determine its suitability for running on Biodiesel as recommended by the vehicle manufacturers. We will provide you with assistance and support to ensure a smooth conversion to this renewable fuel, with no disruption to your operations. Biodiesel Storage - can I use my existing diesel storage? We will evaluate your current diesel storage arrangements and suggest how you can introduce Biodiesel into your fuel mix at the appropriate blend ratio. Where storage tank capacity is limited, we can arrange to co-ordinate the delivery of Biodiesel, with deliveries from your mineral diesel supplier, to ensure the required blend ratio is maintained. Supply of Biodiesel? We will deliver pure B100 Biodiesel to your site to ensure you maintain the required blend ratio in your mineral diesel storage. You will retain the flexibility to buy your mineral diesel from your preferred supplier

06-07-2009, 10:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
Jesus Jones Thailand Expat Last Online: Yesterday 05:06 AM Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,585	Used veg oil. I used it in my Mits L200 Animal in the UK. I had a heater to heat the oil first, but i don't think that will be a problem here. I don't know why more people don't use used veg oil in Thailand.

06-07-2009, 10:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
blackgang I am in Jail Last Online: 25-10-2009 08:00 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 13,218	Then that would be SVO and used might be OK, but new oil would pobly cost more than diesel, and some of the larger resturants sell their used oil, as I have did a check here to see abouit making Bio diesel and there is no used oil available.

06-07-2009, 10:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
Jesus Jones Thailand Expat Last Online: Yesterday 05:06 AM Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,585	That'll be it then Ted.

06-07-2009, 06:41 PM	#15 (permalink)
blackgang I am in Jail Last Online: 25-10-2009 08:00 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 13,218	There pobly ain't much that they would throw away and it would be damn well used. and they do buy a lot of bottles at the stores everytime they have it on sale and it is one of the main sale items here. I have a friend in Calif that uses used fryer oil from a couple of cafes there and all he does is filter it and has a tank heater, but he does start and shut down on diesel as it gets cold there sometimes.

06-07-2009, 07:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
blackgang I am in Jail Last Online: 25-10-2009 08:00 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 13,218	Yes, and they are killing thousands of acres of rain forest to get it too, so where is the benefit??

07-07-2009, 04:57 PM	#19 (permalink)
blackgang I am in Jail Last Online: 25-10-2009 08:00 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 13,218	Palm oil when on sale in stores is 32 to 34 baht a liter and diesel is 27 a liter.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)