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Motoring in Thailand and Asia Cars and motorbikes in Thailand and Asia, Where to buy and sell your truck? Where to get fixed and what garage to use. Should I buy a suzuki carry? Will it have a car DVD? Will my travel insurance cover me for driving in Thailand? Or should I just buy a Mercedes or a Honda CRV? Everything to do with motoring and vehicles goes in this section. Do I really need a driving licence in Thailand to drive to Bangkok car hire?


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Old 27-11-2007, 06:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Fcuking Toyota Dealers

I've been looking to get a Fortuner for a while now so I went round a few dealers. It became a choice of two. One offered me a one month delivery date and 40,000 B of extras. The second offered 2 month delivery and 30,000 B of extras. I needed the vehicle asap and drove 100 km to place my order with the first dealer. Upon arriving they changed the delivery time to 3 months. So I walked out and drove to the second dealer and placed my order. At the same time as paying my deposit I got the salesman to sign his name to the 2 month delivery date. Delivery to be at the end of November. I had a phone call today saying the car wont be delivered now until the end of next month. Total 3 month. I really want to walk into their showroom and create shit and then cancel my order. This has put me in a really tight spot and I don't know what to do. I'm so angry I'm having trouble thinking straight. Anyone care to advize ? Should I continue with the order and ask for compensation or is that a waste of time. Why the fuck can't Thai tell the truth. Fucking wankers.
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Old 27-11-2007, 06:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What radiator does that model have?

If it's anything like the Vigo - it's a heap of sh.it. The radiator is under-designed & will fail in a short timeframe. A Thai Toyota is NOT a Japanese Toyota - period.

Look around, there's some other reasonable stuff out there.
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Old 27-11-2007, 06:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You might consider demanding a loaner from them until yours is delivered. I suppose you'd have to threaten legal action or something to get it done.
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Old 27-11-2007, 06:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun
Why the fuck can't Thai tell the truth. Fucking wankers.
I had the same run around from Honda dealers when i bought a new civic.

Bunch of lying cnuts all playing the same game. lie to get the order and then change all the details to suit them when they have your 10,000 baht order deposit.

On the day of delivery one dealer tried to give me a car that was dirty and covered in tree sap. I had to tell him to take the fucking thing away and give me my 10,000 back.

Assholes.
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Old 27-11-2007, 06:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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All depends on the dealer. I've bought a Ford in Phuket, two Toyotas in Phuket and a Honda in Bangkok and have had absolutely great dealers. It's wise to ask for a reference before buying from a particular dealer.
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Old 27-11-2007, 07:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thai Car dealers are like Thai builders !
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Old 27-11-2007, 07:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by watterinja View Post
What radiator does that model have?

If it's anything like the Vigo - it's a heap of sh.it. The radiator is under-designed & will fail in a short timeframe. A Thai Toyota is NOT a Japanese Toyota - period.

Look around, there's some other reasonable stuff out there.
Dunno what you are on about, my Vigo 2.5 yrs old 120,000 Ks and so far new front shocks and tires. Not a thing else
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Old 27-11-2007, 08:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
Thai Car dealers are like Thai builders !
And car dealers and builders are held in high esteem in our home country?


Admittedly we had no trouble with our cars here, aside from them fixing some minor things asap.
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Old 27-11-2007, 08:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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What radiator does that model have?

If it's anything like the Vigo - it's a heap of sh.it. The radiator is under-designed & will fail in a short timeframe. A Thai Toyota is NOT a Japanese Toyota - period.

Look around, there's some other reasonable stuff out there.
Dunno what you are on about, my Vigo 2.5 yrs old 120,000 Ks and so far new front shocks and tires. Not a thing else
Auto, or manual box?
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Old 27-11-2007, 08:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Back in '96/7 my old man had a Citroen XM, it was christened ' the hearse' by the rugby boys.

Having just passed my test I took it out for a spin and discovered that automatic gearboxes can do burn outs. After a week or so I killed it. Somehow I managed to get the blame off myself and onto the car. After that though it was all down hill.

Gearbox needed replacing, drive shaft,, gearbox again, 5 aircons sytems, suspension, electrics, drive shaft, around and around.

It got to the point one day where my old man went to Citroen and dropped it off. He asked to see the managers car which was a brand spanking new 15 miles on the clock Xantia 2.5TD sportyish thing.

My old man got into the car and told the lads he would bring it back when they fixed his car and drove off. He kept it locked in the garage had many angry phone calls from citroen's manager but stuck to his guns and kept it.
Citroen even came around to the house one afternoon to try and steal it back and give him a crappy courtesty car instead.

He took the car all over Scotland on business scaring himself with the fairly nippy diesel in it.

Eventually after nearly a month he returned it to pick his car up which worked without any problems after that.

The xantia ended up with 2500miles on the clock.
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Old 27-11-2007, 08:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Auto, but I thought you said the radiator was a problem, not the transmission
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Old 27-11-2007, 08:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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^ The manual box has a 16mm downflow radiator, the autobox has a 27mm downflow radiator, both made by Denso Thailand.

Under burst-pressure, the radiators begin to look like a rugby-ball at something a little over cap-lifting pressure. They are under-designed from a strength point-of-view - the worst I have ever seen. There has been a progressive recall on many of them over the past few years. The 27mm version is obviously a bit stronger than the 16mm version.

They are pure rubbish, in my view. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
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Old 27-11-2007, 08:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Un-fucking-believeable

The Toyota MightyX had a radiator that coped marginally. Any slight restriction and you could be in trouble.
The 3 litre 5L engine had serious cooling problems and had to be replaced earlier than anticipated.
Now you say that the Vigo D4D has cooling problems.

Someone needs their arse kicking.
They should be over designing their radiators after the previous failures.
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Old 27-11-2007, 09:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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^
Un-fucking-believeable

The Toyota MightyX had a radiator that coped marginally. Any slight restriction and you could be in trouble.
The 3 litre 5L engine had serious cooling problems and had to be replaced earlier than anticipated.
Now you say that the Vigo D4D has cooling problems.

Someone needs their arse kicking.
They should be over designing their radiators after the previous failures.
This is the inside track.

The thermodynamic cycle for an engine - gasoline, or diesel normally works out how much power can be extracted from the cycle. With this, comes an amount of heat, also as a function of the thermodynamic cycle. For both gasoline & Diesel cycles, the heat-transfer rate, to power evolution is around 72%.

This means that ALL heat losses from the system - radiator, exhaust, block external etc amounts to around 72% of the engine power rating. I have trended the relationship between radiator design capacity (power) & engine power going back some years. Around 10 years ago it was around 120% & has slowly gone down until - Vigo - sits at 72%. This means that the slightest hangup anywhere in the system will have the radiator overheating & the engine in trouble.

Even large trucks are moving very close to this thermodynamic limit of 72%.

So, as engines evolve more power per unit space package, & underhood real-estate remains at a premium, the radiator itself is now the principle design problem for modern engines.

Oh, let's go hydrogen fuel-cell - you say. Wonderful - you need 3 radiators instead of one!!!

BTW, this part of the thermodynamic cycle analysis is not taught in standard text books - that's why the new designers haven't yet cottoned onto the issue.
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Old 27-11-2007, 10:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My experience with Toyota dealers here is very bad also.
Tell them the only reason you bought from them is because of their quick turn-time. If they con't meet their promise, stand your ground and demand your baht back. They get away with pulling this shit because everyone backs down.
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Old 27-11-2007, 10:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsquirrel
My old man got into the car and told the lads he would bring it back when they fixed his car and drove off. He kept it locked in the garage had many angry phone calls from citroen's manager but stuck to his guns and kept it.
RESPECT !



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They get away with pulling this shit because everyone backs down.
so fckiung TRUE!
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Old 27-11-2007, 11:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watterinja
If it's anything like the Vigo - it's a heap of sh.it. The radiator is under-designed & will fail in a short timeframe. A Thai Toyota is NOT a Japanese Toyota - period.
You're talking out of your arse.
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Old 27-11-2007, 11:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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You're talking out of your arse.
\

and that's different to when ? , exactly?
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Old 27-11-2007, 11:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watterinja
If it's anything like the Vigo - it's a heap of sh.it. The radiator is under-designed & will fail in a short timeframe. A Thai Toyota is NOT a Japanese Toyota - period.
You're talking out of your arse.

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Old 28-11-2007, 12:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watterinja View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thetyim View Post
^
Un-fucking-believeable

The Toyota MightyX had a radiator that coped marginally. Any slight restriction and you could be in trouble.
The 3 litre 5L engine had serious cooling problems and had to be replaced earlier than anticipated.
Now you say that the Vigo D4D has cooling problems.

Someone needs their arse kicking.
They should be over designing their radiators after the previous failures.
This is the inside track.

The thermodynamic cycle for an engine - gasoline, or diesel normally works out how much power can be extracted from the cycle. With this, comes an amount of heat, also as a function of the thermodynamic cycle. For both gasoline & Diesel cycles, the heat-transfer rate, to power evolution is around 72%.

This means that ALL heat losses from the system - radiator, exhaust, block external etc amounts to around 72% of the engine power rating. I have trended the relationship between radiator design capacity (power) & engine power going back some years. Around 10 years ago it was around 120% & has slowly gone down until - Vigo - sits at 72%. This means that the slightest hangup anywhere in the system will have the radiator overheating & the engine in trouble.

Even large trucks are moving very close to this thermodynamic limit of 72%.

So, as engines evolve more power per unit space package, & underhood real-estate remains at a premium, the radiator itself is now the principle design problem for modern engines.

Oh, let's go hydrogen fuel-cell - you say. Wonderful - you need 3 radiators instead of one!!!

BTW, this part of the thermodynamic cycle analysis is not taught in standard text books - that's why the new designers haven't yet cottoned onto the issue.
Nice explanation thanks !
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Old 28-11-2007, 01:40 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun View Post
I've been looking to get a Fortuner for a while now so I went round a few dealers. It became a choice of two. One offered me a one month delivery date and 40,000 B of extras. The second offered 2 month delivery and 30,000 B of extras. I needed the vehicle asap and drove 100 km to place my order with the first dealer. Upon arriving they changed the delivery time to 3 months. So I walked out and drove to the second dealer and placed my order. At the same time as paying my deposit I got the salesman to sign his name to the 2 month delivery date. Delivery to be at the end of November. I had a phone call today saying the car wont be delivered now until the end of next month. Total 3 month. I really want to walk into their showroom and create shit and then cancel my order. This has put me in a really tight spot and I don't know what to do. I'm so angry I'm having trouble thinking straight. Anyone care to advize ? Should I continue with the order and ask for compensation or is that a waste of time. Why the fuck can't Thai tell the truth. Fucking wankers.
WELCOME TO THE LAND OF SMILES! i would say the fact they bothered to telephone you constitutes unbelievably good service by thai standards. most times they would just have avoided you- thai style. ignore the problem and it will go away....
why are all these farang in such a bloody hurry? why do they insist on good quality? why do they complain so much? why dont they just take it lying down when they get fucked over like the thais do?
tell them to fuck off and get your money back. make an official complaint with toyota head office
good luck
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Old 28-11-2007, 01:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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My Toyota Tiger Sl, 4WD had just passed the 3 year warranty stage, with 78000 kms on the clock, when a couple of pin holes in the head gasket between the back two pots appeared.
There was no warning on the temp guage, the engine just stopped while sitting at some lights.
The result was a rebuild for about 35000 baht, I decided on a complete set of bearings, pitons etc. Toyoat did not want to kno me due to the warranty being exceeded by 2 weeks.

More to the issue of ordering a car, I went into Honda in Pattaya in February this year, put 300,000 baht on the table and said what have you got TODAY. 5 hours later I was the proud owner of a 2.0 Ltr Civic.

Ford and Honda could do the same, just find the dealer with the biggest turnover, or one with fuck all turnover and a couple in the showroom.

I agree that the Vigo is crap, but all the new models are. A second hand ute circa 2000 would be a better deal, even if you had to rebuild the engine like I did. By the way the Thai brother in law bought my Tiger and won't part with it, even offered him 300,000 cash and he said no.
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Old 28-11-2007, 01:53 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Gone are the days when a decent diesel would go through 250,000 km & still purr along.

Travelled in a 2.5D Benz diesel in Germany that had gone through 1,000,000 km, with only one engine rebuild.
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Old 28-11-2007, 03:43 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsquirrel View Post
Back in '96/7 my old man had a Citroen XM, it was christened ' the hearse' by the rugby boys.

Having just passed my test I took it out for a spin and discovered that automatic gearboxes can do burn outs. After a week or so I killed it. Somehow I managed to get the blame off myself and onto the car. After that though it was all down hill.

Gearbox needed replacing, drive shaft,, gearbox again, 5 aircons sytems, suspension, electrics, drive shaft, around and around.

It got to the point one day where my old man went to Citroen and dropped it off. He asked to see the managers car which was a brand spanking new 15 miles on the clock Xantia 2.5TD sportyish thing.

My old man got into the car and told the lads he would bring it back when they fixed his car and drove off. He kept it locked in the garage had many angry phone calls from citroen's manager but stuck to his guns and kept it.
Citroen even came around to the house one afternoon to try and steal it back and give him a crappy courtesty car instead.

He took the car all over Scotland on business scaring himself with the fairly nippy diesel in it.

Eventually after nearly a month he returned it to pick his car up which worked without any problems after that.

The xantia ended up with 2500miles on the clock.
I wonder what would happen if one tried that in Thailand!
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Old 28-11-2007, 06:10 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by watterinja
If it's anything like the Vigo - it's a heap of sh.it. The radiator is under-designed & will fail in a short timeframe. A Thai Toyota is NOT a Japanese Toyota - period.
You're talking out of your arse.
I think so too, but rather than flipping off a trite comment I will measure some temperatures today.
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