Thread: Wheel rotation when being serviced.

Every year, or every 10,000 km, I rotate my wheels as per the book. But every year I get the car serviced where they take off the wheels to check the brakes. Now, should the servicer rotate the wheels during service?

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Every year, or every 10,000 km, I rotate my wheels as per the book. But every year I get the car serviced where they take off the wheels to check the brakes. Now, should the servicer rotate the wheels during service?

Wot? ..

I thought wheel rotation was a hangover from the old days before the science of suspension and wheel alignment was as advanced as it is today. If you need to rotate your tyres because of uneven wear, then you need to look at your car's suspension and wheel alignment...and other stuff probably.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Every year, or every 10,000 km, I rotate my wheels as per the book. But every year I get the car serviced where they take off the wheels to check the brakes. Now, should the servicer rotate the wheels during service?

Either you do it or ask them to do it. You don't need both.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

I thought wheel rotation was a hangover from the old days before the science of suspension and wheel alignment was as advanced as it is today.

Supposed to be done every 10,000 km. Obviously you don't do it?

Generally you should be following the rule on having your tires rotated every 4,000-6,000 miles

www.toyotaarlington.com

One time they rotated tires diagonally but now tires are directional so you can only rotate left front to left rear and right front to right rear or vice versa.

Toyota recommend every 10,000km. All I'm asking is is 'rotation' part of a 10,000km service, or an extra? After all they take the wheels off to check the brake shoes. Seems only logical they should rotate them at the same time?

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Toyota recommend every 10,000km. All I'm asking is is 'rotation' part of a 10,000km service, or an extra? After all they take the wheels off to check the brake shoes. Seems only logical they should rotate them at the same time?

Honda dealer I go to does it free if I ask them to. As you say, makes sense.

There's something to be said for either way.

My own view is that rotating will give you more even tyre wear, but if you get uneven wear due to an alignment or other problem, you will then find it difficult to differentiate between whether it has been the front or rear suspension which caused it.

I myself let them stay on where they are for about half their life, then inspect them for uneven wear, and usually rotate after that irrespective of wear. If one pair doesn't look too good, I fix the problem that caused it and put em (or leave em) on the front of my front wheel drive car and wear em out fast.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

I thought wheel rotation was a hangover from the old days before the science of suspension and wheel alignment was as advanced as it is today. If you need to rotate your tyres because of uneven wear, then you need to look at your car's suspension and wheel alignment...and other stuff probably.

Nonsense. All tyre companies recommend it. Wheel alignment also costs more.

Simple really if you want it done tell them. The rights or wrongs dont matter if thats what you want get it done.

Tyre Rotation
Tyre rotation is the practice of moving your tyres from one position on the vehicle to another so that tyres wear more evenly over the course of their lives.

Many tyre manufacturers agree that it is no longer good practice to rotate your tyres in order to extend their legal life. The reasons for this are:

Partly worn tyres are more likely to experience punctures – particularly in wet weather conditions.
Front tyre deflation will create an under-steer effect which is easier to control than over-steer (the effect produced by a rear tyre deflation)
In the unlikely event that a tyre deflates suddenly, then it is easier to control the vehicle if this occurs at the front of the vehicle. For improved handling and stability it is now recommended that the ‘best’ tyres should always be fitted at the rear of the vehicle. This is irrespective of whether the car is front or rear wheel drive.
Because of this, at Kwik Fit we do not recommend tyre rotation and we do recommend fitting your best tyres at the rear of the vehicle. If you are replacing a single tyre then this should be paired at the rear with the tyre having the most tread depth. There are some circumstances when this advice does not apply, such as;

Where front and rear tyre sizes are designed to be different
Where a vehicle is designed to have directional tyres at the front and asymmetric at the rear
If you are not sure about the tyre fitment on your vehicle, contact your local Kwik Fit centre for advice.

Originally Posted by birding

Simple really if you want it done tell them. The rights or wrongs dont matter if thats what you want get it done.

But I want to know if it should be done free of charge on a 10,000 km service based on the wheels having to come off for them to inspect the brake shoes? I think it should be but I can't kick up shit til I'm sure.

^ they'd need balancing again wouldnt they?

^
Fcuk knows.

Maybe get your tracking done too

Alignment& Balance



Wheel alignment and Wheel Balancing are two totally different things, but many people often get them confused. In a nutshell, wheel alignment consists of adjusting the angles of the wheels so that they are perpendicular to the ground and parallel to each other. The purpose of these adjustments is maximum tire life and a vehicle that tracks straight and true when driving along a straight and level road. Wheel Balancing, on the other hand allows the tires and wheels to spin without causing any vibrations. This is accomplished by checking for any heavy spots on the wheel-tire combination and compensating for it by placing a measured lead weight on the opposite site of the wheel from where the heavy spot is.

The symptoms of a car that is out of alignment are:

Uneven or rapid tire wear
Pulling or drifting away from a straight line
Wandering on a straight level road
Spokes of the steering wheel off to one side while driving on a straight and level road.
The symptoms of a wheel that is out of balance are:

Vibration in the steering wheel at certain highway speeds.
Vibration in the seat or floorboard at certain highway speeds.
Scalloped or cupped wear pattern on the tires
Wheel Alignment: Tofind out if you need an alignment, first check each tire and look for uneven wearpatterns. The problem with this method, however, is that if you can see a wear patternlike the ones listed below, it may be too late to save that tire. This is why it is a goodidea to have your alignment checked periodically.

At each tire, take a coin and insert it in the tread at the inside, center and outside.

Overinflated TireIf the tread is deeper on the edges than in the center, the tire is over inflated.
Underinflated TireIf the tread is deeper in the center than the edges, the tire is under inflated.
Tire Wear from Wheel Alignment ProblemIf the tread is deeper on one side than the other, have your wheel alignment checked soon.
Tire Wear from Wheel Alignment ProblemRun your hand back and forth across the tread, being careful not to cut yourself on any debris or exposed steel belt wire. If the tread is smooth in one direction, but jagged in the other you have what is called a "saw-tooth" wear pattern which is caused by a toe-in problem. Have the alignment checked as soon as possible as this condition causes rapid tire wear.
The first two conditions do not call for a wheel alignmentbut the second two do. If these wear patterns are pronounced, you should replace the tiresor move them to the rear before aligning the car. Ask your alignment specialist to besure.

Another indication of an out-of-alignment condition is a car that continuously driftsor pulls to one side of the road when you let go of the wheel. A car that is hard to keepin a straight line without constant steering corrections is also a candidate. Theseconditions may or may not also contribute to premature tire wear.

A wheel alignment cannot be done on a car with loose orworn front end parts. The technician will first check for worn parts and inform you of anyproblems before beginning the alignment.

The best type of wheel alignment is afour wheel alignment. Many cars today have adjustable rearalignment settings, but even for cars without adjustments in the rear, a four wheelalignment will allow the technician to identify any rear tracking problems and compensatefor them with adjustments to the front.

After the wheel alignment is finished, you should drive thecar on a straight and level road and check that the car goes straight and that thesteering wheel is in the proper position with the spokes level. If you notice a problem,take the car back and have the technician drive it and fine-tune the alignment settings.

Click Here for more information on Wheel Alignment

Wheel Balance: Out-of-balancetires will cause a car to vibrate at certain speeds, usually between 50 and 70 mph. A tireis out of balance when one section of the tire is heavier than the others. One ounce ofimbalance on a front tire is enough to cause a noticeable vibration in the steering wheel at about 60mph. To balance a wheel, the technician will mount it on a balancing machine which spinsthe wheel to locate the heavier part. He will then compensate for the heavy part byattaching a lead weight on the opposite side. Many people are pleasantly surprised at howsmooth their car drives after balancing all four wheels.

Most high quality tires will hold their balance fairly well and go out of balance verygradually. If you notice a vibration that wasn't there the day before, it is possible thatone of the lead balancing weights fell off. If you feel the vibration mostly in thesteering wheel, the problem is most likely in a front wheel. If the vibration is mostly inthe seat, the problem is probably in the rear.

For those of you who are very sensitive about vibrations and your shop can't seem toget that last bit of vibration out, check to see if you have locking wheel lugs. Somelocking lugs are as much as 1.5 ounces heavier than the other lug nuts whichtranslates to about 1/2 ounce at the wheel rim. Try putting a 1/2 ounce weight oppositethe locking lug and see if it helps.

https://www.carparts.com/carcare/alignmentbalance.htm

Originally Posted by Dillinger

^ they'd need balancing again wouldnt they?

No. Balancing is done per wheel. Don't matter which wheel it ends up as.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

But I want to know if it should be done free of charge on a 10,000 km service based on the wheels having to come off for them to inspect the brake shoes? I think it should be but I can't kick up shit til I'm sure.

Yes it should, but they won't unless you insist.

FWIW my first set were not rotated and the front needed replacement after 35,000km the second set have done about 50,000, all 5 have been rotated and are only down by about 40% ~50%

If they take the wheels off to check your brakes they are already charging you. I suspect they might try but check the bill and suggest, if charged, you would like it removed. If they what more business from you they will cancel the charge.

Chalk a position code on your tyres and ask for rotation as part of your service.

I never use rotation direction tyres if I have a full spec spare tyre anyway, for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by Dillinger

I'm not sure it should be free since you should be rotating with the spare included. Rotating without including the spare is less effective and means you are tied to the same tyre choice.

In my case, spare not involved when rotating. Spare is one of those wee donut jobs.

Originally Posted by Troy

I'm not sure it should be free since you should be rotating with the spare included. Rotating without including the spare is less effective and means you are tied to the same tyre choice.

On my last Fortuner all the hubs were the same including the spare. So in the manual, for the 10,000km, they printed a diagram of rotation based on the five wheels.
My latest Fortuner, 3 years old, came with 4 hubs the same and the spare on a shitty hup design. And in the manual it only gave the diagram for a 4 wheel change and nothing for the spare.

I rotate mine..depends on how they are wearing.....