The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

Mr Earl · 30-08-2007, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabang

I would have thought Pakistan is a far worse risk in that regard Booner, and they've already got nukes.
Iran is not the nation of fierce jihadists you seem to think.

Tell that to the Hostages Iran has taken at various points in time

Quote:

Under international law, they are breaking no rules at all.

In fact they are breaking the IAEA nuclear non proliferation treaty by continuing to build centrifuges and enriching weapons grade uranium.

Gerontion · 30-08-2007, 04:30 PM

^ America is equally in breach of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, as it requires nuclear powers to, at a bare minimum, "pursue negotiations in good faith on...nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control." Unfotunately, I don't see anyone threatening to bomb Washington because of this but I suppose we can always live in hope.

AntRobertson · 30-08-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Tell that to the Hostages Iran has taken at various points in time

And the illegal detainees at Gitmo deprived of due process? What do we tell them?

Boon Mee · 30-08-2007, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerontion

Tell that to the Hostages Iran has taken at various points in time

And the illegal detainees at Gitmo deprived of due process? What do we tell them?

Heh...I'll bite at this troll.
Tell 'em they're lucky to have 3 squares and a cot to lay down on. Enemy combatants (no uniform etc) do not enjoy privileges granted under the Geneva Convention.

Then again, your gig might be corporate law so you're out of your element?

raycarey · 30-08-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

you're out of your element

has anyone seen 'the big lebowski'?
on several occasions booner's posts have reminded me of the character walter who (in addition to being psychotic), is always saying, 'you're out of your element donny'

AntRobertson · 30-08-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Then again, your gig might be corporate law so you're out of your element?

I wish you'd make your mind up, one minute I'm a "TEFL'er", the next a lawyer.

Regardless, whatever my "gig" is Booners, I do know that illegal detention and torture is in stark contrast to "Freedom" and "Democracy".

Boon Mee · 30-08-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Then again, your gig might be corporate law so you're out of your element?

I wish you'd make your mind up, one minute I'm a "TEFL'er", the next a lawyer.

Regardless, whatever my "gig" is Booners, I do know that illegal detention and torture is in stark contrast to "Freedom" and "Democracy".

Well, I've since learned you might even be an 'ambulance-chaser' as opposed to a TEFLer. Torture? Let's have some proof of that, eh? And water-boarding, loud noises, sleep-deprivation do not count.

AntRobertson · 30-08-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Torture? Let's have some proof of that, eh? And water-boarding, loud noises, sleep-deprivation do not count.

Why not? Because you say so? Going to have to do much better than that Booners...

Inter alia:

Human Rights Watch - Torture - Abuse of Detainees - Iraq - Afghanistan

Quote:

Each day brings more information about the appalling abuses inflicted upon men and women held by the United States in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere around the world. U.S. forces have used interrogation techniques including hooding, stripping detainees naked, subjecting them to extremes of heat, cold, noise and light, and depriving them of sleep—in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. This apparently routine infliction of pain, discomfort, and humiliation has expanded in all too many cases into vicious beatings, sexual degradation, sodomy, near drowning, and near asphyxiation. Detainees have died under questionable circumstances while incarcerated...

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN - Forbes.com

Quote:

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN
06.24.2005, 11:37 AM

GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said...

United States of America - Amnesty International

Quote:

Hundreds of detainees continued to be held without charge or trial at the US naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Thousands of people were detained during US military and security operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and routinely denied access to their families and lawyers.

Military investigations were initiated or conducted into allegations of torture and ill-treatment of detainees by US personnel in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and into reports of deaths in custody and ill-treatment by US forces elsewhere in Iraq, and in Afghanistan and Guantánamo. Evidence came to light that the US administration had sanctioned interrogation techniques that violated the UN Convention against Torture. Pre-trial military commission hearings opened in Guantánamo but were suspended pending a US court ruling.

And look Booners, not a single blog either!

Quote:

Well, I've since learned you might even be an 'ambulance-chaser' as opposed to a TEFLer

Really? So what is it you do Booners? Does it involve brushes and public commodes?

DrB0b · 30-08-2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabang

I would have thought Pakistan is a far worse risk in that regard Booner, and they've already got nukes.
Iran is not the nation of fierce jihadists you seem to think.

Tell that to the Hostages Iran has taken at various points in time

Quote:

Under international law, they are breaking no rules at all.

In fact they are breaking the IAEA nuclear non proliferation treaty by continuing to build centrifuges and enriching weapons grade uranium.

So if they were to withdraw from the treaty and no longer be signatories would they then be considered good friends of the USA, like the nuclear-armed non-signatories Pakistan, India, and Israel (at least one of whom, considering it's recent and current history, is well worth worrying about when it comes to sharing technology with the bad guys)? After all they only have to give three months notice and withdrawing from the treaty doesn't seem to have had any bad effect on North Korea, who will proliferate anything to anybody who's got hard currency.

DrB0b · 30-08-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Torture? Let's have some proof of that, eh? And water-boarding, loud noises, sleep-deprivation do not count.

Care to put that to the test, Booner? You name the time and place and we'll bring the "instruments", maybe we could have a TD poll on how long you'd stand up to the non-torture.

AntRobertson · 30-08-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Care to put that to the test, Booner? You name the time and place and we'll bring the "instruments", maybe we could have a TD poll on how long you'd stand up to the non-torture.

If his ability to stick to the issues and maintain a coherent position on here is anything to go by, odds are he'd fold like a cheap suit and be crying for his mum merely at the mention of the word "torture".

Boon Mee · 03-09-2007, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Torture? Let's have some proof of that, eh? And water-boarding, loud noises, sleep-deprivation do not count.

Care to put that to the test, Booner? You name the time and place and we'll bring the "instruments", maybe we could have a TD poll on how long you'd stand up to the non-torture.

Well, I probably wouldn't last as long a KSM did. He's the one they grabbed in Karachi who was the 'mastermind' of 9/11. He reportedly lasted 8 minutes of water-boarding - a record from what we hear - before giving up the goods. Anyhow, 'torture' is more like pulling fingernails, or the knout like the Russkies used to use, eh?

Having KSM and the rest of that lot listen to 'Nine Inch Nails' or some quality rap at 100db probably gave them a bit of a cultural exposure they wouldn't ordinarily have!

NathairCeann · 04-09-2007, 12:55 AM

Really ! Seeing a bunch of keyboard warriors get macho over torture really interferes with the digestion of my supper ! I was in my local village bar once when this occasional customer and permanent drunk decided to make a nest in my ear. When I got rid of him the lads apologised for not rescuing me from this 'ball breaker' (loosely translated from the French describing a pain-in-hole type person). I just shrugged and said it would take more than the likes of him to break my balls. The barman promptly produced a hammer from under the bar and invited me to put them on the counter so they could check them out.

raycarey · 04-09-2007, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Torture? Let's have some proof of that, eh? And water-boarding, loud noises, sleep-deprivation do not count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, I probably wouldn't last as long a KSM did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

He reportedly lasted 8 minutes of water-boarding

so if it doesn't 'count' booner, why do you admit you couldn't even last 8 minutes?

Boon Mee · 04-09-2007, 01:19 AM

^
Semantics.
One man's torture is another masochists pleasure?

To avert another 9/11, it's felt in some circles that water-boarding is an appropriate method of elicting information...

AntRobertson · 04-09-2007, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

To avert another 9/11, it's felt in some circles that water-boarding is an appropriate method of elicting information...

Whilst the rest of the World condems it as torture.

If you're going to lecture the rest of the World about 'freedom' and 'democracy' you can expect to be held to certain standards and expectations.

Boon Mee · 04-09-2007, 10:07 AM

^
Well, as John Wayne was fond of saying: "A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" and while there are hypocrites everywhere, America will do what's necessary to avert another attack.

AntRobertson · 04-09-2007, 10:09 AM

^

Even if that means illegally detaining people, torturing them and denying basic human rights all the while breeding more and more hatred, eh.

Movies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Reality.

30-08-2007, 04:30 PM	#162 (permalink)
Gerontion Surat Thani Last Online: 20-02-2008 04:44 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 154	^ America is equally in breach of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, as it requires nuclear powers to, at a bare minimum, "pursue negotiations in good faith on...nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control." Unfotunately, I don't see anyone threatening to bomb Washington because of this but I suppose we can always live in hope.

04-09-2007, 12:55 AM	#173 (permalink)
NathairCeann Mae Sai Last Online: 23-09-2007 12:56 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bangna , heading for Cambo Posts: 376	Really ! Seeing a bunch of keyboard warriors get macho over torture really interferes with the digestion of my supper ! I was in my local village bar once when this occasional customer and permanent drunk decided to make a nest in my ear. When I got rid of him the lads apologised for not rescuing me from this 'ball breaker' (loosely translated from the French describing a pain-in-hole type person). I just shrugged and said it would take more than the likes of him to break my balls. The barman promptly produced a hammer from under the bar and invited me to put them on the counter so they could check them out.

04-09-2007, 01:19 AM	#175 (permalink)
Boon Mee Senior Member Last Online: 05-01-2009 05:56 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,108	^ Semantics. One man's torture is another masochists pleasure? To avert another 9/11, it's felt in some circles that water-boarding is an appropriate method of elicting information...

04-09-2007, 10:07 AM	#177 (permalink)
Boon Mee Senior Member Last Online: 05-01-2009 05:56 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,108	^ Well, as John Wayne was fond of saying: "A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" and while there are hypocrites everywhere, America will do what's necessary to avert another attack.

04-09-2007, 10:09 AM	#178 (permalink)
AntRobertson Ich Bin Ein Auslander Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,628	^ Even if that means illegally detaining people, torturing them and denying basic human rights all the while breeding more and more hatred, eh. Movies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Reality.