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Mr Earl

"Great deeds are usually wrought at great risk." Herodotus

Take note those who think pandering and appeasing terrorists are sound tactics.

History will shine on the USA for this one.

Mr Earl

^That won't happen. The USA is a "can do" operation.
The rest of the world will be eating KFC and plagiarizing american soap operas before they know it.

Texpat

Achmed, please pass the cole slaw and a plump juicy breast!

Praise be to Allah for this extra crispy thigh.

Texpat

US IRAQ agree to troop withdrawal by 2011

Reuters
25 Aug 2008

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi Prime Minister Prime Nuri al-Maliki said on Monday that an agreement had been reached in negotiations on a security pact with the United States to end any foreign military presence in Iraq by the end of 2011.

"There is an agreement actually reached, reached between the two parties on a fixed date which is the end of 2011 to end any foreign presence on Iraqi soil," Maliki said in a speech to tribal leaders in the Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone.

"Yes, there is major progress on the issue of the negotiations on the security deal," Maliki said.

The Iraqi government has said it is proposing U.S. troops end patrols of Iraqi towns and villages by the middle of next year and U.S. combat troops leave Iraq by 2011.
But Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a visit to Baghdad last week that no final agreement had been reached. The Bush administration has sought to steer clear of fixed timetables in negotiating the agreement.

Iraq PM says U.S. agrees to withdraw troops by 2011 | Reuters

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My prediction of Home by Christmas was a bit off, but 2011 is workable. I can think of 100,000 troops that won't object. Now we see if the Iraqis can keep it together. I'm hoping they can.

bkkandrew

^The White House have just denied this agreement.

US, Iraq dispute troop withdrawal deadline

Boon Mee

October is on track to be the first month in which no U.S. troops have died in combat in Baghdad.


But that's not all. According to USA Today, there's even more to celebrate, including:

As of Thursday, the Pentagon had reported 13 U.S. troops killed in combat and non-combat incidents this month in Iraq. If the number holds, it would tie July for the lowest monthly U.S. death toll of the 5½-year-old war.

The news comes in a week in which the troops have already made headlines. Their latest milestone? Two days ago, the U.S. military had handed over control of yet another province to the people of Iraq. This is the 13th of the country's 18 provinces to be placed back in Iraqi control, a sign of the tremendous dedication of the men and women of our military.


But, but, didn't BO tell us the War was unwinnable???

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sabang

Way too late to talk about victory in Iraq now, but making the best of the situation US troop levels and the huge cost of keeping them there can hopefully start going down more.

Texpat

Oh -- sour grapes.

Be happy for the Iraqis enjoying freedoms they could have only imagined a few years ago.

bkkandrew

^Yep, loads of them are now free to spend more time in their grave...

Texpat

I realize you find the concepts of sacrifice and noble gestures a bit foreign.

Iraqis are now free to determine their future without the oppression and bloodthirsty policies of a genocidal dictator to hobble them.

I know that cuts you to the bone -- the idea that those fcuking Americans are far more forward-thinking, progressive and hold a wider global view than you ever will. But hey, you must be used to it by now.

When democracy takes hold in the ME we might start seeing other countries having a taste. The region could well rise from it's current decay and join the US among the ranks of the world's leaders. Sadly, I doubt if your leaders are up to the challenge.

Milkman

My serious question:

What constitutes a victory for the Americans in Iraq?

A Shiite government?

It's looking very doubtful.

Basra will splinter off into semi-independence and be influenced by Iran - contrary to US interest in Iraq and in the Middle East.

The main government in Baghdad will be Shiite and allied with Tehran?

How is this a "victory" for the Americans.

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Panda

^ Dont forget the Kurds.

Texpat

^^ Why do always insist that the US has installed a government?

Do you recall the Iraqi elections? A permanent 275-member Iraqi National Assembly was elected in a general election in December 2005, initiating the formation of a new government.

Or was that another CIA fabrication designed to hoodwink the world?

If they decide to split up their country, then it's their decision -- as it should be. The people will decide -- not a UN snubbing, neighbor invading, genocidal dictator.

I'd say the Iraq war was a success in December 2005. Islamic fundamentalists didn't care for the new government much and set about to dismantle it so the US remained. Much to the chagrin of millions of observers around the world who would love nothing more than to see the fledgling government fail.

Some people are soooo petty.

Petraeus on CNN Oct 31: "We do not judge the success of our operations based on casualties or deaths. Coalition forces are focused on bringing stability and security to the people of Iraq."

Death toll down for U.S. troops, Iraqi civilians in October - CNN.com

sabang

So now you've taken it upon yourself to rewrite history Tex.
It will be a few more years before that can start happening.

Whether it be members of the Bush admin admitting 'it didn't go to plan', senior military people (usually retired) admitting it's been a debacle, or a broad consensus among the media, general population and rest of the world that it has been a mismanaged, bloody mess anyone talking 'Victory' in Iraq is being disengenous at best.

Thats looking backwards I agree- but why shouldn't this be done, how else can lessons be learnt from it? At least Al Qaeda has been all but defeated (they wouldn't have been there at all if it weren't for the invasion), and reduction in overall violence levels gives hope for a meaningful staged withdrawal from Iraq sooner rather than later. Iraq remains shattered however, it's infrastructure a mess, many areas ethnically cleansed, a sizable segment of it's population displaced, fled the country, dead or maimed. It's future is uncertain.

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To err is human. To blame someone else is politics.

Texpat

It's all but fixed.

lom

^After tomorrow

Texpat

The U.S. is “clearly in the endgame in Iraq,” a retired general and defense analyst says in his latest report on the war, adding that security and economic gains in Iraq are “unlikely to be reversible” and that the U.S. is on track to withdraw most of its combat forces within the next 36 months.

And although continued success in Iraq and the deteriorating security situation in neighboring Afghanistan likely will force a “more rapid forced drawdown than desirable in Iraq” to boost troop strength, retired Army Gen. Barry McCaffrey said he feels the U.S. will successfully manage this “tricky balance.”

McCaffrey’s estimate that any U.S. withdrawal should take place over 36 months is twice the 18-month timeframe proposed by President-elect Barack Obama during the presidential campaign. Obama added the caveat that he would pursue a withdrawal in that timeframe if conditions allow and military commanders agree.

The after-action report, the sixth in a series that have followed McCaffrey’s visits to Iraq on behalf of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, where he is an adjunct professor of international affairs, was based on interviews and meetings with dozens of U.S. and Iraqi military and civilian leaders and officials, from the rank of command sergeant major up to U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and Multi-National Force-Iraq commander Army Gen. Ray Odierno.

McCaffrey, pointing out that the report was not submitted for clearance by MNF-I and is an “unclassified and objective analysis” of the situation in Iraq, touted a dramatically improved security situation, not only in terms of decreased attacks on civilians and U.S. troop deaths, but also in ethnic strife that “has all but stopped”; substantial improvements in Iraqi Security Forces; new economic ties between Turkey and the semi-autonomous Kurdish north; and increasingly competent leadership in Iraq’s defense and interior ministries.

McCaffrey also praised the “courage and effectiveness” of U.S. troops.
But he also cautioned that many potential problems remain that could undo the entire 5½-year effort:

* Iraqi political failure to ratify the Status of Forces Agreement and Strategic Framework Agreement by Jan. 1, when the U.N. mandate authorizing the U.S. presence expires.
* Iranian aggression that produces a U.S. military response.
* Continued unrest and continued potential Turkish aggression against separatists in the Kurdish north.
* A premature U.S. withdrawal “before the Iraqis have developed a fully functioning security presence” in all 18 provinces.

McCaffrey also warned that the Iraqi government “remains largely dysfunctional” in its ability to deliver municipal services; agriculture is “grossly underfunded”; unemployment is 20 percent and “underemployment” is “probably 60 percent”; the financial system is immature; and the country has suffered a “brain drain” as a result of flight from chaos or murder.

McCaffrey ended with a scathing critique of Pentagon leadership during the war’s early years and concluded with a cautionary note.

“As the Saudis note with great sadness, we entered Iraq uninvited, ... but we must not leave the same way. It is essential for both U.S. and Mideast security that we pull out of Iraq in a deliberate and responsible manner — and leave a stable and functioning state. This is clearly within our capabilities.”


http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/20..._iraq_111008w/


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sabang

I agree with this statement, although the last bit I italicised remains a hope at this point. But I hope so too.

Panda

The US/UK led invasion of Iraq has to go down in history as one of the greatest monumental strategic and military failures of all time!!

Forget the original bogus excuse of protecting the world from WMDs. That bogyman has now been passed to Iran.

What the "Coalition of the Willing" will leave behind is a fractured country in chaos with basic infrastructure like running water and electricity severely compromised, and up to a million dead, -- mostly civilians including women and kids.
A country divided into competing ethnic groups in a state of virtual civil war.
A country that has provided a fertile recruiting ground for anti-western Muslim radicals.

And to top it off, -- a country that didn't live up to expectations of providing a puppet government under the pretence of democracy. A country that refused to abandon OPEC. A country that refused to sign an open ended contract allowing continuous US occupation. A country that refused to sign an open ended contract allowing US and UK companies exclusive rights to develop Iranian oil reserves.

After 5 years and hundreds of $billions, there has been nothing gained and indeed much lost.

All in all, no sane person could call the US/UK folly in Iraq a victory. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Not for USA, UK or Iraq itself. Everyone has been a looser in this unnecessary and illegal war.

Navel gazing at how to get out of this mess with the least amount of damage is no consolation.

Texpat