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raycarey · 24-09-2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Ever wonder what an IED can do

ever wonder why the white house didn't consider that very question before they invaded iraq?

ever wonder why there are still unarmored humvees in iraq?

ever wonder why parents have to send their sons armor so they don't get killed by an IED?

ever wonder why there weren't enough troops to guard saddam's munition dumps? which is where the explosives for these IEDS are coming from.

Boon Mee · 30-09-2007, 05:31 AM

Well, not all Europeans want America out of Iraq. There are some sane voices out there:

"Europeans Want America to Stay in Iraq

The Atlantic Community Editorial Team asked European policy experts for their opinions on proposed ways forward in Iraq. Respondents from ten different countries provided some surprising results."

"While the American public and policy debate revolves largely around exit strategies and “redeployment,” there is apparent consensus among European policy analysts that American troops should remain in Iraq for the foreseeable future. In contrast to both European media opinion and the prevailing views of American liberals, our respondents supported sustained troop levels. Many consider the announcement of a timetable for withdrawal to be counter-productive and even outright dangerous, saying that lack of American involvement would drive Iraq into further chaos."

Plus, you can't find even one of the Democrat contenders for president in '08 who will say they will pull the troops out anytime soon.

raycarey · 30-09-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Plus, you can't find even one of the Democrat contenders for president in '08 who will say they will pull the troops out anytime soon.

there aren't any good options left in iraq. the arrogance and incompetence of bush/cheney/rumsfeld has created such a mess that i have a slight amount of sympathy for the dem candidates on this issue. i believe i read something the other day about how gates is going through back channels to advise them about their rhetoric.

and who knows how much worse W is going to fuck things up in the next 15 months? but with his track record, the sky's the limit. my guess is that based on this fact, they see it as irresponsible to predict a total withdrawal for 2009. either way, it is my understanding that they are all promising a draw down.

Milkman · 30-09-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, not all Europeans want America out of Iraq. There are some sane voices out there:

"Europeans Want America to Stay in Iraq

The Atlantic Community Editorial Team asked European policy experts for their opinions on proposed ways forward in Iraq. Respondents from ten different countries provided some surprising results."

"While the American public and policy debate revolves largely around exit strategies and “redeployment,” there is apparent consensus among European policy analysts that American troops should remain in Iraq for the foreseeable future. In contrast to both European media opinion and the prevailing views of American liberals, our respondents supported sustained troop levels. Many consider the announcement of a timetable for withdrawal to be counter-productive and even outright dangerous, saying that lack of American involvement would drive Iraq into further chaos."

Plus, you can't find even one of the Democrat contenders for president in '08 who will say they will pull the troops out anytime soon.

And this is for a couple of reasons.

One, the political reason.

Two, the current sentiment (which may or may not be correct or partially correct) is that if the U.S. pulls out then will get worse as far as destabilizing the Al-maliki coalition government and there may be an increase in sectarian killing.

Boon Mee · 01-10-2007, 04:32 AM

That pesky 'ol surge just might be working, eh?

September will have the lowest U.S. death toll in Iraq in 14 months. September also represents the fourth consecutive monthly decline in deaths of U.S. service personnel.

attaboy · 01-10-2007, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon

That pesky 'ol surge just might be working, eh?

September will have the lowest U.S. death toll in Iraq in 14 months. September also represents the fourth consecutive monthly decline in deaths of U.S. service personnel.

Success only prolongs the war.

Quote:

One, the political reason.

Which political reason? Obama and Hillary raised about 100 million each while the Demos were whipping up sentiments of pulling out of Iraq. Hillary said she would begin pulling troops out 90 days into her presidency. Now they all go mum like one of the 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" chimps. I get the impression it was all rhetoric to raise funds for the election. Demos aren't pulling out if they get into office. They wanted people to believe it so they would donate to the candidates' election campaigns. I wonder how people feel to be suckered once again. How long can politicians keep wringing the rag for water?

chinthee · 01-10-2007, 09:16 AM

^ I believe your analysis is correct. I don't think anyone (who's electable) will pull out of Iraq from either party.

attaboy · 01-10-2007, 10:32 AM

If Iraq becomes a theocracy how long before the Shiites say, "We must take Mecca for the righteous believers. The Sunnis are heretics!"?

Plus, I don't don't see how long troop rotations can go on. But yeah, I don't see any president pulling out in his first term. The stakes are too high. It's a f'n mess.

sabang · 01-10-2007, 10:39 AM

^ I think a phased withdrawal is the unspoken tactic. We'll see.

britmaveric · 01-10-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

^ I believe your analysis is correct. I don't think anyone (who's electable) will pull out of Iraq from either party.

This would be correct line of thinking - yanks will be based there indefinitely. So get used to it.

Boon Mee · 01-10-2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

^ I believe your analysis is correct. I don't think anyone (who's electable) will pull out of Iraq from either party.

This would be correct line of thinking - yanks will be based there indefinitely. So get used to it.

Ala S. Korea.

sabang · 01-10-2007, 10:44 AM

^^ Their long term interest is the oil. My guess is private oil installations, ports and the like will end up being guarded by mercenaries and/or the UN- although there will be US and UK troops amongst them in that case.

Boon Mee · 05-10-2007, 08:35 AM

A Fox News poll finds that 19 percent of Democrats believe the world will be better off if the U.S. loses the war in Iraq.

Un-fucking believable

raycarey · 05-10-2007, 09:58 AM

first of all, the US already lost. and if you disagree, please post what 'winning' is.....with all the goal post moving over the last 5 years, it's hard to keep track.

and secondly, the US and the world will be better off because of it..... the majority US citizens hopefully won't be so easily duped into wars of choice that are incompetently conceived and disastrously managed.

better for the US, and better for the world.

Boon Mee · 05-10-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raycarey

better for the US, and better for the world.

Can you elucidate this for us?

Milkman · 05-10-2007, 10:01 AM

Boon:

^^ Ahh, yes. The happy picture of a soldier giving candy to a child, hugging babies, and smiling with the local community - all - while supporting a Shiite government that back Hezbollah.

So yes, maybe if the Americans can secure this Shiite government, those sympathetic to Hezbollah will be better off.

raycarey · 05-10-2007, 10:03 AM

^^i already did, but since you're having trouble keeping up....

because of the shame involved with losing in iraq, americans will be less likely to believe the lies the next time around....this is good for america's image abroad....you know, when america was actually respected in some quarters instead of despised around the world.

and the world community benefits by not having another war of choice inflicted upon it by the US.

Boon Mee · 05-10-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milkman

Boon:

^^ Ahh, yes. The happy picture of a soldier giving candy to a child, hugging babies, and smiling with the local community - all - while supporting a Shiite government that back Hezbollah.

So yes, maybe if the Americans can secure this Shiite government, those sympathetic to Hezbollah will be better off.

Well, it might take some time so I hope your patience holds out. N. Korea only now wants peace with the south so...

Milkman · 05-10-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milkman

Boon:

^^ Ahh, yes. The happy picture of a soldier giving candy to a child, hugging babies, and smiling with the local community - all - while supporting a Shiite government that back Hezbollah.

So yes, maybe if the Americans can secure this Shiite government, those sympathetic to Hezbollah will be better off.

Well, it might ta

30-09-2007, 05:31 AM	#282 (permalink)
Boon Mee Senior Member Last Online: 05-01-2009 05:56 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,108	Well, not all Europeans want America out of Iraq. There are some sane voices out there: "Europeans Want America to Stay in Iraq The Atlantic Community Editorial Team asked European policy experts for their opinions on proposed ways forward in Iraq. Respondents from ten different countries provided some surprising results." "While the American public and policy debate revolves largely around exit strategies and “redeployment,” there is apparent consensus among European policy analysts that American troops should remain in Iraq for the foreseeable future. In contrast to both European media opinion and the prevailing views of American liberals, our respondents supported sustained troop levels. Many consider the announcement of a timetable for withdrawal to be counter-productive and even outright dangerous, saying that lack of American involvement would drive Iraq into further chaos." Plus, you can't find even one of the Democrat contenders for president in '08 who will say they will pull the troops out anytime soon. __________________ ผมเป็นคนบ้านนอก

01-10-2007, 10:32 AM	#288 (permalink)
attaboy Elite Member Last Online: Today 10:43 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,458	If Iraq becomes a theocracy how long before the Shiites say, "We must take Mecca for the righteous believers. The Sunnis are heretics!"? Plus, I don't don't see how long troop rotations can go on. But yeah, I don't see any president pulling out in his first term. The stakes are too high. It's a f'n mess. Last edited by attaboy : 01-10-2007 at 10:39 AM.

01-10-2007, 04:32 AM	#285 (permalink)
Boon Mee Senior Member Last Online: 05-01-2009 05:56 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,108	That pesky 'ol surge just might be working, eh? September will have the lowest U.S. death toll in Iraq in 14 months. September also represents the fourth consecutive monthly decline in deaths of U.S. service personnel.

01-10-2007, 09:16 AM	#287 (permalink)
chinthee Sundance is my bff Last Online: 23-09-2008 07:21 AM Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,033	^ I believe your analysis is correct. I don't think anyone (who's electable) will pull out of Iraq from either party.

01-10-2007, 10:39 AM	#289 (permalink)
sabang Watching the Wheels Last Online: Today 01:30 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: east of Pattaya Posts: 9,044	^ I think a phased withdrawal is the unspoken tactic. We'll see.

01-10-2007, 10:44 AM	#292 (permalink)
sabang Watching the Wheels Last Online: Today 01:30 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: east of Pattaya Posts: 9,044	^^ Their long term interest is the oil. My guess is private oil installations, ports and the like will end up being guarded by mercenaries and/or the UN- although there will be US and UK troops amongst them in that case.

05-10-2007, 08:35 AM	#293 (permalink)
Boon Mee Senior Member Last Online: 05-01-2009 05:56 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,108	A Fox News poll finds that 19 percent of Democrats believe the world will be better off if the U.S. loses the war in Iraq. Un-fucking believable

05-10-2007, 09:58 AM	#294 (permalink)
raycarey Incoming! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: deleting posts in issues Posts: 5,579	first of all, the US already lost. and if you disagree, please post what 'winning' is.....with all the goal post moving over the last 5 years, it's hard to keep track. and secondly, the US and the world will be better off because of it..... the majority US citizens hopefully won't be so easily duped into wars of choice that are incompetently conceived and disastrously managed. better for the US, and better for the world.

05-10-2007, 10:01 AM	#296 (permalink)
Milkman Gone Off Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: shelf Posts: 10,354	Boon: ^^ Ahh, yes. The happy picture of a soldier giving candy to a child, hugging babies, and smiling with the local community - all - while supporting a Shiite government that back Hezbollah. So yes, maybe if the Americans can secure this Shiite government, those sympathetic to Hezbollah will be better off.

05-10-2007, 10:03 AM	#297 (permalink)
raycarey Incoming! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: deleting posts in issues Posts: 5,579	^^i already did, but since you're having trouble keeping up.... because of the shame involved with losing in iraq, americans will be less likely to believe the lies the next time around....this is good for america's image abroad....you know, when america was actually respected in some quarters instead of despised around the world. and the world community benefits by not having another war of choice inflicted upon it by the US.