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DaffyDuck

Like I said, you clearly prefer to bury your head in the sand.

The Israel Situation: Rocket Attacks Increased During Truce

If you believe that 2,900 rockets, fired into Israel, DURING THE TRUCE (it was a TRUCE, not a CEASEFIRE) did not result in any devastating maimings and wounded (which is the whole design goal of Kassam rockets), then you must be terribly naive.

Do proportionally more Palestinians get killed - seeing as how Hamas cowardly uses civilians as shield, it seems unavoidable -- but you have Hamas to blame for that, not Israel.

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sabang

What is there you don't understand about my statement- None Of Your Links Refer to Any Single Fatality Caused by Hamas??

Stay out of Issues- you would be eaten alive.

Takeovers

Continuous action as a government policy?

The worst I would know of recently would be the building of that wall and some consequences of it. I can see why Palestineans are outraged. But I see the Israeli side on this one too.

Just leaving the West Bank wouldn't bring peace. Leaving Gaza didn't.

But always making real peace would be the only way out and if Israel wouldn't go along the West including the USA would pressure them into that direction.

sabang

I find it very hard to believe that forty times as many Palestinians were killed by the Israeli defence Forces in 2007 as Israeli's were killed by Palestinians was not a function of government policy.

Don't you?

Takeovers

Right but I don't have any problem with this. It's simply the consequence of the Palestineans not agreeing to peace in combination with better efficiency by Israel. The difference in counting civilians would be smaller. But regrettably Palestinean civilians suffer the consequences of their radicals.

The alternative would be to let attacks by Palestinean radicals go unanswered. That's not an option in my eyes.

spiff

Reports of casualties are scarce.
Have you had a look at these rockets and how they are launched?

quack, quack.

Boon Mee

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DaffyDuck

Obviously, you prefer your strawman, as you deliberately prefer to ignore the obvious. That's fine, some people prefer deluding themselves with ignorance, as you clearly prefer to do.

Thanks for that quote Boon Mee posted, pointing out once again that Israel has targeted military targets, while Hamas just lob thousands of rockets into Israel, deliberately into civilian targets, with the intent of inflicting as much civilian damages as possible.

It's quite obvious that sabang prefers to not educate himself on what he is talking about, but nevertheless, here's another link with interesting content:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hta.../20080520.aspx

Relevant information: "For every 30-40 Kassams fired, an Israeli is killed or wounded. Until this year, for every 2-3 Kassams fired, a Palestinian is killed or wounded by Israeli military operations against the firing sites and workshops that build the rockets. For the last six months or so, the Israelis have been more precise in their retaliation, trying to limit Palestinian civilian casualties. For the Palestinians, causing Israeli civilian casualties is their main goal."

"So far, the war the Palestinians began in late 2000, has left 5,800 people dead, 82 percent of them Palestinians."

List of Qassam rocket attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's interesting to also compare Palestinian casualties *casued by Palestinians*, wich of course our friends in this thread will attribute to the israelis (like the 5 and 13 year old girls recently killed by Palestinian rockets gone astray).

terry57

Considering how the Israelis act when they are traveling I have no doubt about Willys statement.

A bigger bunch of coonts one could never run into and its very easy to understand why every bastard hates them including the Palestinians.

They are very foking lucky, if it where not for the yanks feeding them money and military might they would of been blown of the face of the earth many years ago.

The rag heads are foked as well but the Israelis are right down there with them.

Fok both of them, let them blow themselves to oblivion as the world don't need either of them.

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DaffyDuck

The same can be said for Australians abroad, or Brits abroad, or Chinese mainlanders abroad -- does that means we should kick them out of their country?

In fact Australia is a good example, seeing as how it was an artificially created country as well (in other words, Brits were shipped there to colonize it) - so do we kick Aussies out?

Whiteshiva

As anyone who has read my posts over the last few years, I am no great lover of Israel either, but Hamas has been provoking Israel for some time now, and I just surprised they haven't struck back sooner. Hamas brought this upon themselves.

Civilian casualties are always regrettable though - no matter what race, religion or nationality.

I am also a bit puzzled as to why nobody seems capable of administering first aid to the survivors in the video above. There is a lot of running around, shouting "Allahu Akbar" and carrying dead and wounded around, but I wonder how many of the dead cound have been saved by simple first aid techniques such as CPR, stopping major bleeding, mouth-to-mouth (perhaps a cultural taboo?), positioning the wounded in the recovery position while awaiting transport, etc. Instead most of the men are running around like headless chickens.

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Butterfly

This is all happening because the Neocons, the Bush Administration, the Israelis extremists and the US Christians fundamentalists have destroyed the peace process that took 10 years to materialize.

They wanted a United Israel for some silly reasons, and having a Palestine state could only break up that plan. Their only solution will be to commit a genocide with the world standing by watching, as usual.

keda

That's the most ambiguous, deceptive, challenging soundbite to come out of the ME in the past 60 years.

What does it mean? How much land, and where? In relation to the ME, some have suggested having returned Sinai and Golan, with the West Bank and Gaza designated for a future Pal state, East Jerusalem would be enough. Islamists, otoh, bandy the slogan Land for Peace to mean nothing less than the land between Golan and Eilat. Does anyone have views on what should be fair and reasonable, in return for a resolute, long lasting peace in the region? Is it land, or removal of the Jew?

Then, who does anyone negotiate with? Is it the Pals, in which case the rest of the arab/muslim world are not bound by any agreement, or the arab/muslim clerics and govs - and people - as a collective?

And then, what Peace does any reasonable person imagine, when all that's needed is a call to arms under the flag of allah/jihad, and the still uneducated masses will flock? Or, would anyone care to propose that with a so-called peace would come education for the masses, so they can start thinking for themselves?

Some might even choose to believe that radical rhetoric is a bluff and should not be taken at face value, since its vocalists are actually looking for a way to justify deserting allah and visions of the Caliphate, or that this principle could be removed from the school curriculum, to be replaced with teachings of peace, as in true peace, with the Jew, first, and then the infidel.


Come now!

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sabang

^ The nation of Palestine will be based on the 1967 borders, with some tweaks and land trading here and there keda- no secret about that.

I seem to remember you stating that the 'scourge of Allah' is the worst threat the world has ever faced, so that rather defines your attitudes. However the behind the scenes negotiations involving the Palestinian Authority, Israeli gov't, and in a more informal capacity US gov't, UN and Arab League are based around this.

Really, the latest fireworks are just yet another sideshow, albeit a depressing spectacle.

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keda

Why should you be offended at being asked if you believe it is reasonable, considering you first touted the slogan and then its defining source?

Must I be wrong to ask, simply because in my opinion the 'scourge of Allah' remains the world's most insidious threat to civilisation and progress? - can't see a connection, please clarify.

sabang

I'm not the least offended keda- what made you think that?

If I got it wrong, correct me, but I was stating what I believe to be true- you are deeply sceptical about there being any workable peace betweeen Palestine and Israel, your main tenet being the wider Islamic issues.

keda

I can't say you got it wrong...seeing as nobody has got it right yet there's no measure for comparison.

As to your other point, if I may call it that, spot on because I am truly sceptical about there being a workable peace betweeen the Pals and Israel. Is there anything at all you find troublesome or intrinsically wrong with that, considering the matter has only been grinding for 60 years?

Mid

so Hamas uses longer range rockets and more Israelis than before are now at risk ...................................

spiff

Any numbers to show, Daffy?
How many thousands have been killed by these devastating rocket attacks?

Go on then, compare.
How many casualties from stray Hams rockets, how many from Israeli "precision" missiles?

quack, quack.

keda

It's ok for Hamas to lob rockets into Israel because they don't kill many people, but wrong for Israel to retaliate because they do kill many people...Is that what you're implying, sTroller?