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Boon Mee · 20-09-2007, 05:23 AM

And this really makes sense, eh?

CIA Shut Down in Iraq

"Movements of key CIA station personnel in Baghdad—along with most State department diplomats and teams building police stations and schools—have been frozen for the second day in a row, according to a State department source who spoke on the condition of anonymity."

Hootad Binky · 20-09-2007, 05:33 AM

Meanwhile, Sadr has left the Shia portion of the "coalition" government...

Boon Mee · 20-09-2007, 06:10 AM

^
No great loss there. "Exploiting that anger, anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr demanded the government ban all 48,000 foreign security contractors, whom Iraqis have long viewed as mercenaries, the Associated Press reported."

The whole system of security forces and their licenses is corrupt beyond belief. Anyhow, this latest incident "which left eight Iraqi civilians dead by most accounts, occurred Sunday when Blackwater was escorting a convoy through one of Baghdad’s Sunni neighborhoods.

According to the North Carolina-based company, the convoy was attacked by armed insurgents using small-arms fire. The U.S. contractors returned fire to get their clients out of the area safely.

“By doctrine, you return fire — that’s how you stay alive,” said the Blackwater contractor, who spoke on the condition that he not be identified. “They killed who they needed to kill to get out of there. The teams that try to be all nicey-nicey, guess what? Their guys get kidnapped,” he said.

Several expatriate security contractors who did not open fire have been taken hostage while protecting their clients in western Iraq near Ramadi and in Baghdad.

Iraq has turned into a kill or be killed place - no whimps allowed...

britmaveric · 20-09-2007, 11:38 AM

I know some BW lads. And that pretty much sums its up, get attacked you shoot your way out. Least we forget the lads who were burned, dragged, and then hung from an overpass were BW security.

sabang · 20-09-2007, 12:19 PM

I suppose, to the various factions of the Iraqi resistance, mercenaries are targets just like soldiers. I certainly don't question their right to defend themselves, or return fire if fired upon. Why they are there in the first place is a question for another thread.

But the messages coming from Iraq are suggesting that the BW crowd are more trigger happy, violent, and less well trained and professional than other mercenary operations.

The NY Times article even mentions they had their own helicopter gunships firing down on unarmed civilians, and the mortar fire they used as an excuse was kilometre's away. They also quote a figure of around 20 dead, so some widely conflicting reports at the moment.

britmaveric · 20-09-2007, 12:25 PM

Blackwater USA - About Us

Dunno about current standards, but most are former military and founded by an ex-navy seal.

raycarey · 22-09-2007, 09:37 AM

more info on the war profiteers blackgang is falling all over himself to defend...

Quote:

WASHINGTON - Federal prosecutors are investigating whether employees of the private security firm Blackwater USA illegally smuggled into Iraq weapons that may have been sold on the black market and ended up in the hands of a U.S.-designated terrorist organization, officials said Friday.
The U.S. Attorney's Office in Raleigh, N.C., is handling the investigation with help from Pentagon and State Department auditors, who have concluded there is enough evidence to file charges, the officials told The Associated Press. Blackwater is based in Moyock, N.C.

Quote:

In Saturday's editions, The News & Observer of Raleigh reported that two former Blackwater employees — Kenneth Wayne Cashwell of Virginia Beach, Va., and William Ellsworth "Max" Grumiaux of Clemmons, N.C. — are cooperating with federal investigators.
Cashwell and Grumiaux pleaded guilty in early 2007 to possession of stolen firearms that had been shipped in interstate or foreign commerce, and aided and abetted another in doing so, according to court papers viewed by The Associated Press. In their plea agreements, which call for a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, the men agreed to testify in any future proceedings.

Feds probe Blackwater weapons smuggling - Yahoo! News

btw, did anyone else hear the story about how blackwater guards helped the guy who embezzled $2.5 billion from the US/iraq escape from prison in iraq? i read it in print, but i'll try to find a link later.

Butterfly · 22-09-2007, 11:23 AM

The face of BW, a bad Gi-Joe

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Blackwater working again in Iraq

blackgang · 22-09-2007, 11:31 AM

RC, Mostly just more allegations, but you do seem to pick them up and run with em don't you.

Never have any proof of wrong doing, just supposed and use that to slander others that are your betters and most is jealousy fueled.

OH did you see where Blackwater is again running convoys in Iraq??

And your other allegations of Americans restricted to Green zone because of Blackwaters wrong doing has made it unsafe for them to leave the zone,
Thats also bullshit, they couldn't leave because it is to dangerous because of Blackwater being sidelined temp. and without them it is just to dangerous for anyone to go outside of the zone.

Milkman · 22-09-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgang

....Mostly just more allegations, but you do seem to pick them up and run with em don't you.

Never have any proof of wrong doing....

There is enough evidence to for the U.S. Attorney to file charges. Two Blackwater employees are cooperating with investigators.

There may be more charges and info coming out soon.

blackgang · 22-09-2007, 11:47 AM

Charges being filed do not mean much, just that they are trying, And that has nothing to do with Blackwater supposedly killing a bunch of folks and getting kicked out of Iraq. As is the OP of this thread.
There is corruption in a lot of things, just look at what Toxin has been accused of and nothing is or has been proven or him being convicted.

Kind of like Thai gossip, nothing solid, just some accusations. Can't run a world on that.
so why make a big deal out of gossip, why not wait for some solid convictions and then smear them?
Sounds just like the DUKE LaCross team rape accusations. That DA with the solid charges is going to prison for that fiasco. Maybe should take RC with him.

Ivor Biggun · 22-09-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabang

^ There is a very simple issue with mercenaries in Iraq BG.

They can murder at whim, but under the terms of the Occupation can not be held accountable for it within Iraq. They can not even be charged, or tried.

A soldier can be held accountable, however.

Do you think this is fair, and just?

Soldiers are made to account for murders etc in Iraq but America tries them at home and not in the country where the crime was carried out. This is wrong. The crime was carried out in Iraq and therefore should be tried in that country.

blackgang · 22-09-2007, 11:59 AM

^ Disagree, a soldier is an employee of the US govt. and the employer is responsible for the actions of the employee in the performance of his dutys and is a represenitive of said employer.

So the US Gov should maybe tried in Iraq, but the employee should be tried in the country of the employer if anything.

Ivor Biggun · 22-09-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgang

^ Disagree, a soldier is an employee of the US govt. and the employer is responsible for the actions of the employee in the performance of his dutys and is a represenitive of said employer.

So the US Gov should maybe tried in Iraq, but the employee should be tried in the country of the employer if anything.

It only appears the US has this policy. British soldiers, during N Ireland conflict, were tried in N Ireland Civil courts when accused of wrong doing. Aren't there US servicemen presantly in Philipino jails for rape crimes ? It doesn't matter who your employer is you should be still subject to the law of the land. Just because at home you drive on the right doesn't mean you can do that where they drive on the left, if you get my drift

stroller · 22-09-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

It only appears the US has this policy.

Yeah, and it entirely disregards the law of the land they operate in. Anywhere else everyone gets tried according to the law of the place they committed a crime, the US seem to think they are above all that.
They also reject international legislation.

raycarey · 22-09-2007, 11:33 PM

blackgang says he has me on ignore

but if by chance he's reading this post (simply by chance of course) it seems you were right about this BG....

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgang

There is corruption in a lot of things,

it's all starting to spill out.....

Quote:

Defense Ministry spokesman Mohammed al Askari told McClatchy Newspapers that one of the incidents was former Iraqi Electricity Minister Ahyam al Samarrai's escape from a Green Zone jail in December. Samarrai had been awaiting sentencing on charges that he had embezzled $2.5 billion that was intended to rebuild Iraq's decrepit electricity grid.

>>>snip<<<

Until now, Iraqi officials hadn't named the private security company that they believe helped Samarrai, the only Iraqi cabinet official convicted of corruption, to escape from a jail that was overseen jointly by U.S. and Iraqi guards.

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 09/19/2007 | Maliki blasts Blackwater firm for other incidents

gee i wonder what happened to him and that $2.5 billion?

blackgang · 23-09-2007, 12:12 AM

I don't know the legal aspects of it, but I guess that they think they are in a war zone and doing stuff war time ways.
Police actions are not my strong suit and I do not know about the laws, but they have plenty of lawyers, all politicians are Lawyers, thats the reason that politics and politicians are so crooked and corrupt.
Hell I ain't gonna worry about it, they average 50 deaths a day in Baghdad and maybe someone else is killing them or maybe, but I doubt, that troopers are killing them, but someone is and I don't think that what are dying by troops gunfire is making that much difference.
Just wait until the troops leave and you will really see some killing until they find one with enough moxie and meanness, like Saddam, that kills in a painful way and scares them into quitting that shit.
Them folks is mostly stupid, if they would quit it then the troops would leave and then they could get down to the nitty gritty of killing each other, but what they are doing now is each sect is trying to outdo the other so there will not be enough of the other sect to run the country and the strong sect will undoubtly be in power so they will just keep it up.

It will eventually be IRAN that comes out running things and it ain't costing them much except a few guns and some explosives.

Milkman · 23-09-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgang

Charges being filed do not mean much, just that they are trying, And that has nothing to do with Blackwater supposedly killing a bunch of folks and getting kicked out of Iraq. As is the OP of this thread.
There is corruption in a lot of things, just look at what Toxin has been accused of and nothing is or has been proven or him being convicted.

Kind of like Thai gossip, nothing solid, just some accusations. Can't run a world on that.
so why make a big deal out of gossip, why not wait for some solid convictions and then smear them?

The corruption with contractors has been factually documented and corroborated numerous times. Congressional testimony under oath, by both military and civilain.

The reason for few convictions? They are not being charged.

Why are they not charged? There is a reason why.

If you really want to see dirty corruption and theft, check out the "Custer Battles" contractor in Iraq.

20-09-2007, 05:23 AM	#41 (permalink)
Boon Mee Senior Member Last Online: Today 03:40 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,823	And this really makes sense, eh? CIA Shut Down in Iraq "Movements of key CIA station personnel in Baghdad—along with most State department diplomats and teams building police stations and schools—have been frozen for the second day in a row, according to a State department source who spoke on the condition of anonymity." __________________ ผมเป็นคนบ้านนอก

20-09-2007, 12:19 PM	#45 (permalink)
sabang Watching the Wheels Last Online: Today 02:59 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: east of Pattaya Posts: 8,458	I suppose, to the various factions of the Iraqi resistance, mercenaries are targets just like soldiers. I certainly don't question their right to defend themselves, or return fire if fired upon. Why they are there in the first place is a question for another thread. But the messages coming from Iraq are suggesting that the BW crowd are more trigger happy, violent, and less well trained and professional than other mercenary operations. The NY Times article even mentions they had their own helicopter gunships firing down on unarmed civilians, and the mortar fire they used as an excuse was kilometre's away. They also quote a figure of around 20 dead, so some widely conflicting reports at the moment. __________________ To err is human. To blame someone else is politics.

22-09-2007, 11:31 AM	#49 (permalink)
blackgang Senior Member Last Online: Today 03:43 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 6,973	RC, Mostly just more allegations, but you do seem to pick them up and run with em don't you. Never have any proof of wrong doing, just supposed and use that to slander others that are your betters and most is jealousy fueled. OH did you see where Blackwater is again running convoys in Iraq?? And your other allegations of Americans restricted to Green zone because of Blackwaters wrong doing has made it unsafe for them to leave the zone, Thats also bullshit, they couldn't leave because it is to dangerous because of Blackwater being sidelined temp. and without them it is just to dangerous for anyone to go outside of the zone. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Political Correctness: A doctrine, fosteredby a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

23-09-2007, 12:12 AM	#57 (permalink)
blackgang Senior Member Last Online: Today 03:43 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 6,973	I don't know the legal aspects of it, but I guess that they think they are in a war zone and doing stuff war time ways. Police actions are not my strong suit and I do not know about the laws, but they have plenty of lawyers, all politicians are Lawyers, thats the reason that politics and politicians are so crooked and corrupt. Hell I ain't gonna worry about it, they average 50 deaths a day in Baghdad and maybe someone else is killing them or maybe, but I doubt, that troopers are killing them, but someone is and I don't think that what are dying by troops gunfire is making that much difference. Just wait until the troops leave and you will really see some killing until they find one with enough moxie and meanness, like Saddam, that kills in a painful way and scares them into quitting that shit. Them folks is mostly stupid, if they would quit it then the troops would leave and then they could get down to the nitty gritty of killing each other, but what they are doing now is each sect is trying to outdo the other so there will not be enough of the other sect to run the country and the strong sect will undoubtly be in power so they will just keep it up. It will eventually be IRAN that comes out running things and it ain't costing them much except a few guns and some explosives. Last edited by blackgang : 23-09-2007 at 12:18 AM.

20-09-2007, 05:33 AM	#42 (permalink)
Hootad Binky Elite Member Last Online: Today 09:26 AM Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West Coast Canada Posts: 2,922	Meanwhile, Sadr has left the Shia portion of the "coalition" government...

20-09-2007, 06:10 AM	#43 (permalink)
Boon Mee Senior Member Last Online: Today 03:40 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,823	^ No great loss there. "Exploiting that anger, anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr demanded the government ban all 48,000 foreign security contractors, whom Iraqis have long viewed as mercenaries, the Associated Press reported." The whole system of security forces and their licenses is corrupt beyond belief. Anyhow, this latest incident "which left eight Iraqi civilians dead by most accounts, occurred Sunday when Blackwater was escorting a convoy through one of Baghdad’s Sunni neighborhoods. According to the North Carolina-based company, the convoy was attacked by armed insurgents using small-arms fire. The U.S. contractors returned fire to get their clients out of the area safely. “By doctrine, you return fire — that’s how you stay alive,” said the Blackwater contractor, who spoke on the condition that he not be identified. “They killed who they needed to kill to get out of there. The teams that try to be all nicey-nicey, guess what? Their guys get kidnapped,” he said. Several expatriate security contractors who did not open fire have been taken hostage while protecting their clients in western Iraq near Ramadi and in Baghdad. Iraq has turned into a kill or be killed place - no whimps allowed...

20-09-2007, 11:38 AM	#44 (permalink)
britmaveric nid aur yw popeth melyn Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pattaya Posts: 2,681	I know some BW lads. And that pretty much sums its up, get attacked you shoot your way out. Least we forget the lads who were burned, dragged, and then hung from an overpass were BW security.

20-09-2007, 12:25 PM	#46 (permalink)
britmaveric nid aur yw popeth melyn Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pattaya Posts: 2,681	Blackwater USA - About Us Dunno about current standards, but most are former military and founded by an ex-navy seal.

22-09-2007, 11:23 AM	#48 (permalink)
Butterfly Suspended Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,860	The face of BW, a bad Gi-Joe BBC NEWS \| Middle East \| Blackwater working again in Iraq

22-09-2007, 11:47 AM	#51 (permalink)
blackgang Senior Member Last Online: Today 03:43 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 6,973	Charges being filed do not mean much, just that they are trying, And that has nothing to do with Blackwater supposedly killing a bunch of folks and getting kicked out of Iraq. As is the OP of this thread. There is corruption in a lot of things, just look at what Toxin has been accused of and nothing is or has been proven or him being convicted. Kind of like Thai gossip, nothing solid, just some accusations. Can't run a world on that. so why make a big deal out of gossip, why not wait for some solid convictions and then smear them? Sounds just like the DUKE LaCross team rape accusations. That DA with the solid charges is going to prison for that fiasco. Maybe should take RC with him.

22-09-2007, 11:59 AM	#53 (permalink)
blackgang Senior Member Last Online: Today 03:43 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 6,973	^ Disagree, a soldier is an employee of the US govt. and the employer is responsible for the actions of the employee in the performance of his dutys and is a represenitive of said employer. So the US Gov should maybe tried in Iraq, but the employee should be tried in the country of the employer if anything.