Best Realistic Career Paths for Enjoying a Decent Expat Life in The Far East

[tamsin]

If you want to write there is always work on freelancer.com, it's not well paid but a lot of it is just re-writing copied stuff to pass the copyscape test for website content, this one has 3 bids at $38.

• Project ID:
  
  1256865
• Project Type:
  
  Fixed
• Budget:
  
  $30-$250 USD

Project Description:

I am in need of high quality articles for two of my websites. Right now I'm searching for a team as well as individuals that can constantely provide me with fresh website content.

Article must be unique, readable and pass Copyscape. They must be free of any grammar mistakes.

For now I'm willing to pay up to $.80 for of 500 words. Should you convince me with quality work, I'm willing to pay more in future projects!

Article re-writer needed | Academic Writing | Article Rewriting | Articles | Copywriting

This is one of those assholes on Black Hat Forum outsourcing for some US outfit called Associated Content (I think). They're too bloody idle to do the actual writing themselves and so post on freelance websites and get others to do it for them, whilst they take the lion's share of the payout.

Do it yourself, if you enjoy mind boggling tedium. Christmas coming up, so they'll all be looking for shit about crackers or how to stuff a turkey.

[Bettyboo]

consultant things like Accenture.

I worked in New Media at SMT level before getting bored of it around 12 years ago, sick of the idiots talking b/s and wasting money, etc... I had offers of CEO positions at international companies on decent enough salaries (0ver 400,000 baht per month), thought it through but decided to get out of that game... Accenture was where all the absolute muppets ended up; any project with them on it was sure to be wasting money and get bad recommendations at the end of an unnecessarily extend project time... About 10 years ago, I spoke to the people in Thailand involved in the same area I worked in (TrueVisions, production companies, channels, a couple of consultants), and they were as I'd imagined them to be here - useless, underskilled, knowledgeless, bullshitting muppets (granted they no doubt earned decent salaries... ) - I didn't want to work with them.

Fuk Accenture... Worked with them on projects in Germany and Holland - absolute waste of the clients money...

I do know a lecturer in a top tier uni who I think used to teach electronics at AIT, but I think moving to the UK uni must have been an obvious step up in their career (...and I can't picture them being there for the poon-tang, tbh... if you've ever met a science or engineering lecturer, you'll know what I mean).

I saw a position in a UK uni, similar to what I'm doing now, it was paying 150,000 baht per month - my quality of life, expendable income, accom situation and holiday time would all take a downward step if I took it.

If you have post-graduate qualifications in the area you teach, do some research and presentations/publish articles, etc, then Thailand is not a bad place to be employed. I should imagine that there are a fair few titled foreigners working in Thai Unis doing better than you think...

[CaptainNemo]

competent TEFLers.

Allegedly an oxymoron.

I think we've established that "TEFLing" is more a term of abuse than a job description

The term "TEFLer" is not used to describe good teachers, but the "duds", the amateurs, the mickey-takers etc... I think you probably know that.
I haven't got any issues with TEFLers, I just noticed that a lot of sneering about them goes on. My understanding of what a TEFLer is does not fit into what I understand as being an "expat lifestyle", so don't misconstrue this as an attack on TEFLers, I just want to hear about the alternatives.

viability also means having a decent amount of time there every year.

Yes. The mount of time a teacher gets off each year is terrible! Two months over March & April, three weeks in October and a dozen or so public holidays (long weekends) ... not good enough! 3 months or so a year!..... I want 6 months to make it "viable"

It seems you didn't quite manage to read or understand what I wrote in the midst of all that thrashing.
It's hard to understand what your point is...

Especially when you don't proof read what you write.

because I used the term "expat lifestyle", viability also means having a decent amount of time there every year. It seems a bit inviable to just spend your 2-6 weeks holiday every year there. Those who work offshore in some way can maybe spend half the year there broken up into bits, which is just about viable, but nowhere near as viable as physically being there 9+ months a year.

If you are thinking that I meant working abroad in Thailand for 6 months and then having 6 months holiday there, then you are mistaken, that's not what I implied. I was talking about people who, as an alternative to TEFLing, live and work outside Thailand, and can only spend some portion of their time off there. My point was that if they spend less than 6 months in Thailand, then it's not, to my mind, a sustainable expat lifestyle. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, just that it doesn't fit the criteria.

Fuk Accenture...

Well, there are others... I just cited them as an example... like AT Kearney etc... (not that I know much about it).

If you have post-graduate qualifications in the area you teach, do some research and presentations/publish articles, etc, then Thailand is not a bad place to be employed. I should imagine that there are a fair few titled foreigners working in Thai Unis doing better than you think...

I imagine that some PhDs in very niche areas of science and engineering with connections to Japan and the UK could do better even than seagoing engineers.
Depends on what defines quality of life for you I suppose.

I wonder also, what kind of pay threshhold makes for a sustainable expat life there. I heard figures like 90,000THB/month is like the minimum amount. A lot of senior Thai jobs don't seem to get much beyond 50,000THB/month.

[Don Ho]

It's conversations like these that make me want to go back in time and slap the crap out of myself for thinking a degree in History would benefit me. Sure I'm educated but so what?

[CaptainNemo]

It's conversations like these that make me want to go back in time and slap the crap out of myself for thinking a degree in History would benefit me. Sure I'm educated but so what?

It means you understand the value of something, instead of just the price of it.

[keekwai]

Captain Nemo:

Ability to "Take the piss" 10/10

Ability to receive it back 0/10

[HansuMan]

It's conversations like these that make me want to go back in time and slap the crap out of myself for thinking a degree in History would benefit me. Sure I'm educated but so what?

Don't know where you're from, but if US, more & more are waking up to what a racket univ education has become, esp stemming from the inflated cost/debt-slave factor. Heard one critic note that debt-racked college grads today leave univ with a mortgage but no house! And they rejiggered the bankruptcy laws a few years ago so that school debt cannot be dissolved through bankruptcy. Those who borrowed their way through college but then can't get the big-bucks job at the end of the rainbow to pay it off, are well and truly slaves!

This segment from ABC 20/20 gave some rare truth (for mainstream/corp media):


And this independently produced documentary just came out early this year, 1 hour, goes into many facets of the "higher education" racket in the US,


Then consider the "Deliberate Dumbing Down of America" - Charlotte Iserbyt has been a big exposer of this- her book by the same name is available as free PDF at DeliberateDumbingDown.com, and she also has this great interview online now, 75 mins:


Also see: · How University Betrays Students
(^^^ from a guy with a Social Science BA, but no debt- paid my way through the CA State Univ system in '80s-'90s when it was a reasonable value...)

[keekwai]

I thought this had been common knowledge for years. Most people (including myself) I've met with degrees are working in something unrelated to the degree. Looks nice on the wall I suppose.

[Bettyboo]

I wonder also, what kind of pay threshhold makes for a sustainable expat life there. I heard figures like 90,000THB/month is like the minimum amount. A lot of senior Thai jobs don't seem to get much beyond 50,000THB/month.

It's all relative - we'll spend what we earn...

90k is high, I think 60k is comfortable, 40k is manageable.

It depends if you have your own house or not, where you want to live, what food you buy, etc. Some expats pay more than 90k per month for a condo in Bkk - I pay 8k per month for a 4 bedroom house with a garden in Bangkok; takes me 30 minutes to drive to work (or taxi, they're cheap here).

If you had a house and car of your own and were earning 60k then you'd be very comfortable. If you had to pay for your house and car out of that 60k, it would still be manageable, but you'd be watching your money (in which case the 90k would be a nice figure).

There are all sorts of jobs; they'll be expats who earn 250k+ per month who have accom and car on expenses, good luck to them (I'd rather be in London playing that game, but each to their own...). Others get by on pensions or jobs paying 30k per month; good luck to them too.

[keekwai]

^ Now that's a realistic viewpoint.

[Bettyboo]

I thought this had been common knowledge for years. Most people (including myself) I've met with degrees are working in something unrelated to the degree. Looks nice on the wall I suppose.

Very true.

My undergraduate degree was in Electronic Engineering; don't use that much... At a young age, we rarely know how the core of life will sort itself out, and exactly what skills we might need. Now, I kinda wish I'd done undergraduate studies in English Literature or Literary Linguistics, but at that time I wasn't in the slightest bit interested and it wouldn't have helped me to get the jobs I wanted at that time...

[keekwai]

At a young age, we rarely know how the core of life will sort itself out, and exactly what skills we might need.interested and it wouldn't have helped me to get the jobs I wanted at that time...

Should be a core subject. Swap it for something useless ... like algebra.

[CaptainNemo]

I wonder also, what kind of pay threshhold makes for a sustainable expat life there. I heard figures like 90,000THB/month is like the minimum amount. A lot of senior Thai jobs don't seem to get much beyond 50,000THB/month.

It's all relative - we'll spend what we earn...

90k is high, I think 60k is comfortable, 40k is manageable.

It depends if you have your own house or not, where you want to live, what food you buy, etc. Some expats pay more than 90k per month for a condo in Bkk - I pay 8k per month for a 4 bedroom house with a garden in Bangkok; takes me 30 minutes to drive to work (or taxi, they're cheap here).

If you had a house and car of your own and were earning 60k then you'd be very comfortable. If you had to pay for your house and car out of that 60k, it would still be manageable, but you'd be watching your money (in which case the 90k would be a nice figure).

There are all sorts of jobs; they'll be expats who earn 250k+ per month who have accom and car on expenses, good luck to them (I'd rather be in London playing that game, but each to their own...). Others get by on pensions or jobs paying 30k per month; good luck to them too.

Of course.
I'm just curious about the modal average based on a typical and sustainable "comfortable" lifestyle, whether people have kids or not, and whether they are nearer the start or end of their careers.

The main point I was interested in was what kinds of things to people do to get those salaries. Not necessarily because I want to get those kinds of jobs (I'm already ploughing a particular furrow), I'm just curious.
I guess that the 30k jobs are often the semi-pro English-teachers (i.e. the ones without formal training like PGCEs and teaching Masters); and the 250k+ jobs are very senior managers in quite technical areas that either the locals can't do or that are temporary placements within a transnational corporation.

My undergraduate degree was in Electronic Engineering; don't use that much... At a young age, we rarely know how the core of life will sort itself out, and exactly what skills we might need. Now, I kinda wish I'd done undergraduate studies in English Literature or Literary Linguistics, but at that time I wasn't in the slightest bit interested and it wouldn't have helped me to get the jobs I wanted at that time...

I did a first degree in electronics as well, which I've barely ever used, but I could. I also did another first degree before that in languages, which I've also barely ever used at work, except to chat to foreign scientists.
I don't think it does you any harm to do a degree, because it can still open up new things... doing languages got me interested in physics and electronics, and doing physics and electronics got me interested in philosophy, and switched me from thinking it was the most pointless subject to thinking it was in fact the most fundamentally important.
Having said that, I think everyone should have to do *some* maths at uni, it would really sort out a lot of branez, and might open people up to new things, and give people more options... speaking of digressions.

Captain Nemo:

Ability to "Take the piss" 10/10

Ability to receive it back 0/10

That doesn't even make sense in English, what are you trying say? Take your time, don't rush yourself.

[keekwai]

If you were British, Aussie or Kiwi you'd understand. American? "Take the Mickey"?

Kowjai mai?

[Don Ho]

(^^^ from a guy with a Social Science BA, but no debt- paid my way through the CA State Univ system in '80s-'90s when it was a reasonable value...)

I'm American and most of my education was paid for through the G.I. Bill. I went with history because of my love for it and I enjoyed the classes. I got an associates in economics but that's little more than a piece of paper. If I could do it again I would buckle down on the math and go into engineering. Sigh.

[CaptainNemo]

(^^^ from a guy with a Social Science BA, but no debt- paid my way through the CA State Univ system in '80s-'90s when it was a reasonable value...)

I'm American and most of my education was paid for through the G.I. Bill. I went with history because of my love for it and I enjoyed the classes. I got an associates in economics but that's little more than a piece of paper. If I could do it again I would buckle down on the math and go into engineering. Sigh.

What flavour engineering? Engineering is pretty boring tbh, but it supposedly opens doors in a wide range of careers.
Surely doing something you love is worthwhile?
I'm sure that humanities subjects open doors too, in different areas, perhaps there are people on TD who have managed to carve out an expat-equivalent career that doesn't involve teaching. I'd be interested to hear about it.

[meat]

(^^^ from a guy with a Social Science BA, but no debt- paid my way through the CA State Univ system in '80s-'90s when it was a reasonable value...)

I'm American and most of my education was paid for through the G.I. Bill. I went with history because of my love for it and I enjoyed the classes. I got an associates in economics but that's little more than a piece of paper. If I could do it again I would buckle down on the math and go into engineering. Sigh.

I know of this guy who can help you get jobs anywhere. he helped me out. contact him... dxsales1[at]hotmail.com. the guy's name is Don and he can get you what you need.

[CaptainNemo]

I wonder what the proportions are of different categories of "expat" in Thailand... has anyone ever done a survey on this site about roughly what category people fit into? e.g. "retired", "TEFLer", "corporate", "small business", "lecturer", "occasional visitor", "offshore worker" etc...?

[keekwai]

I wonder what the proportions are of different categories of "expat" in Thailand... has anyone ever done a survey

Yes. 67.3% are whore mongers.

[CaptainNemo]

The 'best' expat jobs require previous experience, a good track record- and they come with a cushy benefits package. But you can't just lob into your port of choice and get a job like that.
Starting from 'zero' I'd say the most likely option of getting a decently paid job is in oil and gas, by doing the requisite courses combined with tenacity and determination. Be original- try and get around the usual employment agencies by researching, and approaching companies directly. If you impress the right person, you'll get the nod. Hang around places where O&G workers hang out, such as Songhkhla, and you might get lucky too.

I have had a go at that, chatted to some bods in central London, but it feels like a cryptic labyrinth or a verbal Rubic's cube. Might try shifting sideways into marine and electronic instead of trying to blag a tropical shore job.

I work for an Oil and Gas Company in Qatar. My rotation in and out of Qatar is 28/28. My leave can be spent in any country on the planet I wish as long as I give them enough notice to purchase the flight tickets.
However I choose Thailand because of my girlfriend and our twins. When I come back to Thailand at the end of every rotation we go on holiday outside of Thailand as there are other places we like to travel too.
Last four rotations were Hong Kong/China mainland, Langkawi Malaysia, UK and this trip Northern Vietnam.
I have a house in North East Thailand and we could stay at home anytime, but travel to different destinations in different countries, seeing different cultures is what we like to do.

That sounds like you are in some kind of power station, but the rotation sounds like for an OSV or a rig, apart from that it sounds similar-ish to what I'm looking at. Though I'm not sure how fond I am of the heat over there.

[Bob63]

I wonder also, what kind of pay threshhold makes for a sustainable expat life there. I heard figures like 90,000THB/month is like the minimum amount. A lot of senior Thai jobs don't seem to get much beyond 50,000THB/month.

It's all relative - we'll spend what we earn...

90k is high, I think 60k is comfortable, 40k is manageable.

It depends if you have your own house or not, where you want to live, what food you buy, etc. Some expats pay more than 90k per month for a condo in Bkk - I pay 8k per month for a 4 bedroom house with a garden in Bangkok; takes me 30 minutes to drive to work (or taxi, they're cheap here).

If you had a house and car of your own and were earning 60k then you'd be very comfortable. If you had to pay for your house and car out of that 60k, it would still be manageable, but you'd be watching your money (in which case the 90k would be a nice figure).

There are all sorts of jobs; they'll be expats who earn 250k+ per month who have accom and car on expenses, good luck to them (I'd rather be in London playing that game, but each to their own...). Others get by on pensions or jobs paying 30k per month; good luck to them too.

Good info, thanks.
Just out of curiosity what is a normal utility bill in LOS.
I mean monthly pay for water and electricity (probably including aircon) ?

[keekwai]

I live by myself at the moment and my water bill is between 75-100 Baht p/m I don't use air-con and my electricity bill is around 400 Baht p/m. A couple of years ago I was using the air-con almost 24/7 and the bill was around 900-1200 p/m

[Bettyboo]

^ I have a 4 bed house with 3 people living here. The water and electricity total rarely, if ever, exceeds 2000 baht.

[keekwai]

It's sort of like asking "How long is a piece of string?" Lots of variables to consider. How many people, how big a residence, how many showers a day, washing machine?, amount of air-con use etc

[Bettyboo]

^ yes, but quite cheap here for utilities compared to most places.