Thai Thinking - Nature or Nurture?

[Chairman Mao]

For those who have lived within Thai society (all classes) it is obvious that the average Thai is just about unable to produce logic, efficiency, forethought or consider the consequences of their (or others) actions, and to the large part, show signs of any form of awareness (of self or others). I wonder if this is simply their nature, as a people, or is a product of their environment (being raised in Thai society and culture).

Of course being Western raised these thought processes appear to come naturally, but could also be a product of being raised in a forward thinking and progressive society which not only recognises the importance of, but rewards such processes.

To the Western raised (or to me at least) it does appear that the ‘Thai’ way of thinking halts virtually all forms of progression (of self and country) and I don’t wish to label one process as ‘correct’ and one as ‘incorrect’ as it would simply be Eurocentric based, not to mention it is always best to view both ways with an open mind.

But the causes for our two different ways of thinking is an interesting topic, and one which I have yet to figure out.

Nature (we simply are) or Nurture (we are what our society and culture produces).

My opinion, for what it is worth, would be that being raised in a society where one is disciplined to blindly and silently follow the Phu Yai without question or thought, and where producing logical and efficient actions is seen as negative and could result in loss of face, so must not be acted upon must surely rub off on the young who are cocooned in the ‘be quiet and follow blindly’ society. But then you see fellow nations that adhere to a similar culture, Japan for example - I have only been in Japan for half a day so can hardly comment on it, but I do believe that their culture strongly promotes the importance of ‘face’ and seniority, and it hardly seems like some backward progressionless nation, while the Japanese that I have met appeared to be able to produce logical thought, act efficiently, process forethought and consider the consequences of their actions and act accordingly. So it appears there is more to it… But What?

What is it that halts the average Thai from producing logical ideas, acting efficiently, using forethought to better the future, or consider the consequences of their actions?

Is it simply their nature or is it the nurturing affect of their society and culture? What do you think?

[NickA]

Nurture of course.

Thread closed

[Chairman Mao]

What is it in your opinion that nurtures such thought processes (or lack of) though?

(I think we all can only have opinions on this topic, but it's really interesting I think)

[kingwilly]

some major generalizations there.

All thai's unable to produce logic, efficiency, forethought or consider the consequences of actions, and show signs of any form of awareness?

All westerners forward thinking and progressive society?

All Japanese logical thought, act efficiently, process forethought ?

nope. Op is flawed from the start.

I've met some Thai business men/women, adn those people are quite well educated, smart, logical, certainly able to think through consequences and so on. But I suppose your average som tam seller, taxi driver, and bar girl is not. I guess not all thai are the same.

Westerners forward and progressive thinking? Erm, George W Bush ? and (just to include the other side of politcis, Bill Clinton didnt exactly think through the consquences of monica leuinsky now, did he? Just two examples.

Japanese, actign efficiently and pocessing forethought? Feck me, how many japanese do you actually know? More than a few are little more than bloody robots, yeah yeah yeah I know that they have a tradition of teh Samurai way and honour code, but fer fecks sake the modern day bureaucrat is anythign but....

and the young Japanese that want to show that they are no longer conforming, all grow their hair long, travel and love fast 4 cylinder cars, oblivious to the irony.

Puhlease.

Now thread closed.

[NickA]

they probably don't eat enough cheese.

[Chairman Mao]

^^

OP:
the average Thai

Not ALL.

Feck me, how many japanese do you actually know?

did you read this part either?

OP:
I have only been in Japan for half a day so can hardly comment on it, but I do believe that their culture strongly promotes the importance of ‘face’ and seniority, and it hardly seems like some backward progressionless nation

Puhlease.

Puhlease actually read the OP before commenting on it. It won't take that long. There's a good lad.

[kingwilly]

the average Thai

so what is the average thai? the hiso set, business set, or the somtam sellers adn bargirls. I think I know which you seem to mingle with most, hence your slanted view on things.

I have only been in Japan for half a day so can hardly comment on it, but

so dont comment at all. its bollocks.

Puhlease actually read the OP before commenting on it. It won't take that long. There's a good lad.

puerile.

[Chairman Mao]

some major generalizations there.

All thai's unable...

All westerners...

All Japanese...

nope. Op is flawed from the start.

Do you actually read other people's posts?

[Chairman Mao]

the average Thai

so what is the average thai? the hiso set, business set, or the somtam sellers adn bargirls.

Yet again KW fails to read the very first sentence.

Read man read, it ain't that difficult.

OP: For those who have lived within Thai society (all classes)

However, if you believe that it is in fact the level of class that nurtures such ways of thinking, I do believe (from my experiences) that you are wrong (I have to say 'believe' as I don't think anybody can definitely say that they are right or wrong), altough I do believe rote learning may be a factor in it (you mentioned education), but there are other countries that support rote learning and don't suffer from the same progressionless, mindless mindset.

[kingwilly]

For those who have lived within Thai society (all classes)

I read that bit, i disagree with it. aint that hard to understand is it?

Quote: Originally Posted by kingwilly Quote: Originally Posted by Chairman Mao the average Thai so what is the average thai? the hiso set, business set, or the somtam sellers adn bargirls. Yet again KW fails to read the very first sentence.

ok, I'll answer this tripe, you and I and everyone in the world knows, that when one says "the average thai or the average Brit, ro teh average yank, etc then what they really mean is ALL (expect one or two exceptions)

Your Op sucks dogs mouldy bollocks.

full on generalisations, and shows you have little understanding of basic science.

Quite obvisously the traits that you mention that are possesssed by a very large number of thai's are a result of their culture and upbringing.

next.

[Bluecat]

Nurture makes your nature.
And how you are nurtured depends on your parents nature.

[Chairman Mao]

the traits that you mention that are possesssed by a very large number of thai's are a result of their culture and upbringing.

If I may ask, what aspects of their culture do you believe results in such traits?

It's interesting.

[spiff]

I have only been in Japan for half a day so can hardly comment on it, but I do believe that their culture strongly promotes the importance of ‘face’ and seniority, and it hardly seems like some backward progressionless nation, while the Japanese that I have met appeared to be able to produce logical thought, act efficiently, process forethought and consider the consequences of their actions and act accordingly.

Thailand is not a "progressionless nation" either, and you obviously have not been in Japan long enough to experience or compare social and cultural conventions to anywhere else. Good enough for some bar-stool philosophy and clever-dicking though, it seems.

This is another one of these "we are so much better than them" type threads, isn't it?

[blackgang]

did you read this part either?

No he did not and will not.

Puhlease actually read the OP before commenting on it. It won't take that long. There's a good lad.

He has no time or inclination to read anyones posts as all he comes here for is to make stupid comments.

so what is the average thai? the hiso set, business set, or the somtam sellers adn bargirls. I think I know which you seem to mingle with most, hence your slanted view on things.

See all he wants to do is make stupid comments as stated previously.

Do you actually read other people's posts?

No he does not.

Yet again KW fails to read the very first sentence.

As is his way to do things.

[Chairman Mao]

This is another one of these "we are so much better than them" type threads, isn't it?

Not at all. I'm interested in what causes such traits and thought processes. It's a very interesting topic (to me at least).

What aspects of a culture result in a people's general ability or inability to process logical thought, think in terms of efficency, consider consequences and produce awareness of others?

I'm not saying one is 'right' and one is 'wrong'. Simply looking for the causes for such psychological behavior.

[DrB0b]

This is another one of these "we are so much better than them" type threads, isn't it?

Not at all.

Yes it is. You might have a valid inquiry at base but to express it as a "nature or nurture" question is boneheaded to say the least, unless you genuinely happen to believe that Thais are a different species. If you believe that then boneheaded is a gross understatement.

[Chairman Mao]

So what do you feel 'nurtures' one or the others ability or inability to produce such pschological processes?

What cultural experiences do think creates a general population that either does or doesn't process logic, efficency, forethought, consideration or awareness?

[DrB0b]

So what do you feel 'nurtures' one or the others ability or inability to produce such pschological processes?

What cultural experiences do think creates a general population that either does or doesn't process logic, efficency, forethought, consideration or awareness?

Thai "Buddhism" and Greng Jai.

Why do you think it could be nature?

[blackgang]

The school teachers and the board of edu. is doing their best to change the old ways of teaching and keeping everyone in a single line to a more progressive form of education, but the old people are the ones that do not want it to change, and would imagine that it is also the older politicians and the older Hiso as they have made their money from this system and I can see where they would want no change.

[Chairman Mao]

Thai "Buddhism" and Greng Jai.

Why do you think it could be nature?

I don't. But it is amazing to think that simply being raised in a certain culture can either dull or ignite the mind to consider (for example) that 3 or 4 people riding a motorbike with no safety helmets as either completely inconceivable, or to others, completely safe and should be done without worry.

Is the mind really that weak to cultural exposure? That being raised in a culture can make it so abhorrent to some, and to others, they cannot even compute or comprehend the dangers behind such actions? The mind is so powerful, it is amazing to consider that its development in a given culture can either dull it to such proportions, or make it so aware to the obvious perils of such inconceivable actions. And to me at least, is an exceptionally interesting topic.

[phuketbound]

^Interesting for sure. (psych major here)

I don't live in Thailand, but I've been there many times. I think it has a lot to do with nurture. Thais are not born to blindly obey, and to worry about, 'losing face.' They are brought up in that environment. They learn from their families, friends, and community. Just as children are not born racist.

Imo, you can't compare Thais to Japanese. Japan is a like a first world country, and the Japanese although, worry about face, are also raised differently.

Koreans have a lot of traits as the Thais, such as worrying about face, and where they fit in the pecking order. Their pecking order will dictate what rank they are at, and what their role is. Koreans are brought up to be competitive because of how fast their environment has changed. They have to compete and work hard to get ahead.

Thais don't have the same opportunties. Two different countries, but so similiar on some levels. I think children learn what they live. If they are raised so that it is okay to not wear helmets, or to stop for the national anthem, then they will do it.

It is unfortunate in a way. Some of my Korean friends here, have been educated for some time in Canada. They are the ones that challenge some of the views, and behaviors of the Koreans.

You also have to look at the education system. What does that teach them? Are there opportunities for them to go abroad? Just my two cents.

Great OP though.

[Chairman Mao]

I only had one year of psychology in college so am kinda jealous. It is mind boggling to comprehend that the mind that is so powerful, can be so weak to simple external factors regarding its development.

We see the visual signs of culture so easily – for us in Thailand we see the façade of happiness to mask true emotions, the smiles, wais and everything else the culture here is famed for. And I guess that for Thais who visit the West they see people being honest about their emotions, be them positive or negative, people truthfully speaking their mind, and using logic and efficiency to better themselves, their business and their lives. These are all visual aspects of our separate cultures. To think that a culture can run so much deeper into the psyche of a people en masse and seemingly vegetate their minds to such lengths is amazing.

It makes you wonder if Western culture is holding back our minds without us realising it, are there other thought processes that are as alien to us as logic, efficiency, forethought and awareness are to those raised in Thai culture, but would be just as beneficial to us?

Interesting stuff.

It also makes you wonder, when did it all begin?

When did either those living here cease to use such processes in their everyday life to influence the development of their next generations so much, or when did we develop using such processes from a point when we didn’t?

Did they ever develop such processes, only to cease for cultural reasons, or did they never develop such thought processes at all?

Very, very Interesting...

I guess that if they never developed such processes it would labeled as nature... and nurture if they did, but then for cultural reasons ceased using logic, efficiency etc. as a means of developing their culture to one which doesn't use such pro-active and progressive processes.



Great to have a psych major on board too btw. Welcome.

[EmperorTud]

There's something in the water.

[spiff]

I don't live in Thailand, but I've been there many times. I think it has a lot to do with nurture. Thais are not born to blindly obey, and to worry about, 'losing face.' They are brought up in that environment. They learn from their families, friends, and community. Just as children are not born racist.

Oh really?
And you need a 'psych major' to realise this?

Well, to be fair, your comment does stand out amidst the barstool philosophers...

[NickA]

your comment does stand out amidst the barstool philosophers...

who sit down...