The sad state of Farang Business in Thailand

[sabang]

I've been cruising the net and looking at a few things this morning, out of curiosity- no intention of buying. I'm afraid my prognosis on the state of falang owned business here in Thailand is nothing but grim. All credit to those who are getting by here, even prospering. You must surely be in the minority.

Here's a few-

Nong Khai, The Meeting Place. One of NK's longest established falang places- it has guest rooms and a bar/restaurant. It's been up for sale for a while, no takers. Price slashed from 1.6mm bht to 750K. it seems a bargain- but is anything a bargain if you can't pay your bills from it??

Nobbi's, Nong Khai. Nobbi runs a place in Surin now I believe. German restaurant & bar, quite well located near the Mekhong. I've been there- enjoyed the food. 450K bht. This place was also one of the early falang venues in NK.

Nong Khai, Outback Bar & Grill. Aussie place, don't know it. Asking 425K, down from 500K.

NK, '505 Bar/ Restaurant' 275K bht. It seems that most of falang owned NK is up for sale.

Pattaya (darkside) Dao Cafe' - Well known place this, it has guestrooms and a bar/restaurant, also an infamous ST bar with some ST rooms. Up for sale, asking 16.8mm bht. It's a nice place. it was sold to the new owner by the previous owner around one year ago. Good pizza's, well known & established place on the darkside of Pattaya.

Udon Thani - as PP can confirm, Udon bars are struggling to get by. Yet there is a new 'entertainment arcade' opening there soon. It doesn't look great for bar owners there either.

Pattaya- Stickman was down in Pattaya recently, and writes in this weeks column that he has Never seen the place this quiet- not by a long stretch.
Furthermore, the Police have been coming down on Pattaya nitelife recently. There was an armed Police raid in one of the Pattayaland soi's recently, and several bars on the darkside of Sukhumvit have been closed for a month for staying open beyond midnight. No bar owner even knew they were meant to close at midnight. Many bars are just closing down for low season, many others up for sale.

Bangkok- Probably faring better, due to the less transient nature of the expat population there, and less reliance on tourism. But all reports suggest that Nana and Soi Cowboy are mostly quiet these days. A uniform complaint seems to be that they've gotten too expensive.

Phuket & Chiang Mai - no idea. Any feedback?


The thing is, there seems to be no relief in sight- if anything, it may well get worse. The weakness of the USD, weak economies in the West- probably recession, and the huge increase in fuel prices make it seem certain that this years high season is looking pretty bloody grim. The US visitors market in particular looks shot- and they are valued tourists because of their spending and tipping habits. In Pattaya, it is the Russians that are the biggest tourist group and, anecdotally, the largest foreign real estate buyers now. They don't spend much in the bars and restaurants. The Chinese & Koreans are sizable, but they stick with their tour groups. The Thai political situation does not look good either, there may even be another coup'.

Is there any good news at all out there?

[Marmite the Dog]

In Pattaya, it is the Russians that are the biggest tourist group and, anecdotally, the largest foreign real estate buyers now.

As long as they stay there too.

[ChiangMai noon]

Chiang Mai - no idea. Any feedback?

bars lucky to stay open more than a year.

place is dead 90% of the time.

still plenty of suckers willing to buy into nothing.

[mrsquirrel]

^ Is your local still open?

[ChiangMai noon]

Is your local still open?

i drink at 2 places.

the un irish and tuskers.

that's it.

the guy whose passport i ripped up had a bar. it's now an indian tailor's shop.

[chitown]

Here are the problems with running a restaurant in Thailand.

1. Not enough customer base in the way of farangs.

2. Thais will be afraid to come in. Not use why. Price? Not willing to try something new. Racist maybe. They would rather support a Thai's place than a farang place.

3. Floor staff problems. You can never get good staff. They are always let if they show up at all. You can't get them to work fast or efficiently. You will need more workers than needed anywhere else in the world. They can't handle correction and they will never change any of their habits as they no better than the dumb farang.

4. Kitchen staff problems. Aside from not showing up or being late, you can hardly teach them anything. You ca show them how to make a farang meal and they will do it for awhile. Eventually they will change the recipe because they are just sure it will taste better.

5. Government and police problems. They are the worst. Always have their hand out. I am not sure what is better. Doing it illegally and having our wife running it or forming a company.

6. Forming a company is the biggest pain in the rear. The initial forms are 2 foot tall. Then you have to submit forms every month and pay taxes for your workers. To have a work permit you have to show that you pay yourself 600,000 baht a year. Not many pubs or cafes can sustain that in Thailand. Furthermore, the tax laws in Thailand are archaic and behind the real world at least a century.

I lost 400,000 baht on such a venture. I was able to take the hit, where some are not.

I have NEVER lost money in any business in the US and had several. One would think a business minded farang could thrive here, but the odds are against you.

[Spin]

Is there any good news at all out there?

The high price of fuel seems to be making the roads a bit quieter

[Norton]

Except in their fantasies, bars in Thailand are not the way to riches for the vast majority of farangs. This is attributed to many factors ranging from complete mismanagement to having nothing of extra value to give customers in a highly competitive market. Highly dependent on high season sales, one or two bad seasons spell the end. Another factor is, if you do happen to have a bar that is very profitable you can be sure local Thais will figure out a way to steal it from you.

If you want to make money in the bar business sell it to a misinformed customer for a higher price than you paid for it. The OP indicates this option is now getting difficult.

[forreachingme]

Pasinee closed and Amporn closed...

The Swiss restaurant Chez Andy is doing Ok...

In Joho Dr. pizza does excellent pizzas, but at 240Thb it's to expensive for around here, wish him good luck, hope he stays...

PB the Danish guy has some times a customer or two...

Sports and cocktail is for sale...

OD Pub seems to attract most of foreigners even he is 15 km out of town, with very cheap prices...

The pubs in town sale few beers a day...

Not a good city to open a restaurant and this is some thing seen for years now...

Growing foreigner community but difficult to stay head over water. with such venture...

[chitown]

If you want to make money in the bar business sell it to a misinformed customer for a higher price than you paid for it.

I had a buyer!!! But the Thai Chinese bastard I was renting my place from got his greedy nose in the deal and wanted money as well to extend the lease.

My buyer told him to get stuffed leading to my first loss in business ever

[chitown]

Pasinee closed and Amporn closed...

The Swiss restaurant Chez Andy is doing Ok...

In Joho Dr. pizza does excellent pizzas, but at 240Thb it's to expensive for around here, wish him good luck, hope he stays...

PB the Danish guy has some times a customer or two...

Sports and cocktail is for sale...

OD Pub seems to attract most of foreigners even he is 15 km out of town, with very cheap prices...

The pubs in town sale few beers a day...

Not a good city to open a restaurant and this is some thing seen for years now...

Growing foreigner community but difficult to stay head over water. with such venture...

I am sorry, what city are you in?

[Norton]

I am sorry, what city are you in?

Korat

..........

[Norton]

But the Thai Chinese bastard I was renting my place from got his greedy nose in the deal and wanted money as well to extend the lease.

Always the way. BTW, there is big money to be made in the bar business. Own and rent the property! The Patpong family has become extremely rich doing this for years and find it more profitable than selling their prime real estate.

Of course this is not an option a farang can exercise.

[chitown]

In Joho Dr. pizza does excellent pizzas, but at 240Thb it's to expensive for around here, wish him good luck, hope he stays...

240 for a fresh pizza? Not a bad price if it is good. There are some places down here in Bangkok that charge 450 baht. How big is it? It surely has to beat Pizza Co.

[chitown]

I am sorry, what city are you in?

Korat

..........

I went back and read the post 5 or 6 times before I saw Korat.....and it was in bold letters

[sabang]

^^^ Same the Leng Ke's in Pattaya.

[sabang]

Chiang Mai, night bazaar area-

"I leave on the 29th this month, come take a look and make me an offer, the bar comes with everything you need plus a nearly new 3 by 6 foot granite top pool table. Rent is just 9000bht per month."

Reeks of desperation.

[chitown]

Someone should offer to send him monthly payments to his account in his home country. That would be desperation......

[Norton]

Rent is just 9000bht per month." Reeks of desperation.

Yep. Hooked into a long term lease agreement with no income. Note he says "rent 9000 baht per month" but no mention of sales/month. If your interested Sabang, I'll go 50/50 with you.

[sabang]

If your interested Sabang, I'll go 50/50 with you

[Butterfly]

excellent topic,

I think Chitown nailed it perfectly,

only an amateur would run a place here, as any business sensible person could see the traps right away

[peterpan]

I'm the poster boy for why you shouldn't get involved in a business here.

I built a [for a while successful] business here, profitable and something I enjoyed doing, BUT as I found out when things went wrong as they did, with a crooked thieving employee, it goes seriously wrong.

The last people you will be able to count on are the Filth. When it goes wrong,they will be the ones who ransack your place looking for evidence planted by themselves of course, they will be the ones using threats of violence against your family to steal and extort what ever thy feel entitled to.

So you can get the business basics right, model and build nice little business, and still have it go tits up because in this country the powerless are vulnerable. Now you may kid yourself, I have Cop friends, good guys, they will be relyed on, yea, like hell, watch how quickly these cvnts go to ground when other cops see the feed trough.

[Butterfly]

Incidentally, Thais who open nice restaurants in the US or in Europe are making a fortune, sometimes opening 2 or 3 restaurants in the same city and netting $1m USD per month in sales, costs are still high but I bet at the end they still make more than the rich expat here,

[Thetyim]

Nong Khai, The Meeting Place. One of NK's longest established falang places- it has guest rooms and a bar/restaurant. It's been up for sale for a while, no takers. Price slashed from 1.6mm bht to 750K. it seems a bargain- but is anything a bargain if you can't pay your bills from it??

Thats an interesting one.
It was started by Alan Patterson in 1990.
Alan had a website called MekongRiveria, or something similar and this brought in lots of business. Alan died a few years back and without the website the place has gone downhill.

[chitown]

^ ^Yes. The wife and I almost bought one back in Chicago. They could produce no real records as they had tax returns that were in the negatives, but another set of books that showed skyrocketing profits.

No cash register in the place. Just a calculator and a cash box.