Godless Atheist Buddhist

[Munted]

As a godless atheist I'm not attracted to religion, and in particular, to ritual. There is a lot of this associated with Thai Buddhism, of which I'm not critical as it does add a lot to the experience of Thai culture.
I then read Confession of a Buddhist Atheist by Stephen Batchelor, and discovered that the religiosity and ritual isn't an essential part of Buddhism, at least as a philosophy of life as originally described by the Buddha. Worth looking into if you're feeling jaded with a present lifestyle. Here's a link to one of Stephen's latest series of talks:

The First Noble Task

[billy the kid]

' all life is suffering'

only when you identify with any organised faith or system.

only when the 'Self' ceases do you see.

To change all that, education needs a radical change.

and 'thought' has its proper place.
learning a new whatever. sorting a problem.

the doors of perception are open when thought is absent
and only Attention destroys the conditioning and brain washing.
If you want Freedom.

But thought is always looking for a way in.

it's the devil i tell ya.

[thaimeme]

Savage Oriental spirituality...

[stroller]

As a godless atheist I'm not attracted to religion, and in particular, to ritual. There is a lot of this associated with Thai Buddhism, of which I'm not critical as it does add a lot to the experience of Thai culture.
I then read Confession of a Buddhist Atheist by Stephen Batchelor, and discovered that the religiosity and ritual isn't an essential part of Buddhism, at least as a philosophy of life as originally described by the Buddha. Worth looking into if you're feeling jaded with a present lifestyle. Here's a link to one of Stephen's latest series of talks:

The First Noble Task

Thanks for the link, most interesting.

But then, it's the "Upaya Zen Center", a modern Zen school in the US which satisfies the intellectual curiousity of Western seekers.
Thai Buddhism is Theravada with a long tradition which includes devotion ('religiousness' as you call it) and ritual. Nothing wrong with this, either.

[Necron99]

Theravada Buddhism has about as much to do with Buddhas' teachings as the medieval catholic church had to do with Jesus's.

It's a mix of animism, ancestor worship and religion for profit wrapped in a monks robe.

[thaimeme]

Theravada Buddhism has about as much to do with Buddhas' teachings as the medieval catholic church had to do with Jesus's.

It's a mix of animism, ancestor worship and religion for profit wrapped in a monks robe.

....without deeps convictions of a dogmatic entity.
More akin to life reflections.

[Passing Through]

Theravada Buddhism has about as much to do with Buddhas' teachings as the medieval catholic church had to do with Jesus's. It's a mix of animism, ancestor worship and religion for profit wrapped in a monks robe.

Totally wrong. Do you think the Ajarn Sao-Ajarn Man tradition fits your description? Of course not. Theravada Buddhism is, literally, 'the teaching of the elders' and is so named because its scriptural heart is the Pali canon, which is as about as close as one can get to the original teaching of Buddha.

[wasabi]

My Thai Parents in Law are absolute devotees to Buddha, and I am sure the 65 years + years being blessed by this bliss, should be able to answer you curiosity mind.

[Munted]

Theravada Buddhism has about as much to do with Buddhas' teachings as the medieval catholic church had to do with Jesus's.

It's a mix of animism, ancestor worship and religion for profit wrapped in a monks robe.

Pretty much summed it up there, sure there are exceptions though who question the dogma. If you're the type who needs 'truth' Theravada will do just as good as any other dogmatic version of Buddhism.

[billy the kid]

If you're the type who needs 'truth

yes but do you know what Truth is ?

in thee religio sense.

it ain't the opposite of a lie.

[Munted]

'the teaching of the elders'

... & their spin on the Buddha's thoughts.

[JayZee]

Totally wrong

Not really - the poster was referring to what is actually observed throughout much of Thailand, rather than the somewhat abstract ideal followed by comparitively few individuals. Indeed, the veneration and worship of Buddha as a demi-god seems to be at odds with the original tenets of the religion.

[stroller]

'the teaching of the elders'

... & their spin on the Buddha's thoughts.

& you know better, of course.

[thaimeme]

'the teaching of the elders'

... & their spin on the Buddha's thoughts.

& you know better, of course.

Of course he does...and those who have long years of everyday exposure [not].

[Passing Through]

Totally wrong

Not really - the poster was referring to what is actually observed throughout much of Thailand, rather than the somewhat abstract ideal followed by comparitively few individuals. Indeed, the veneration and worship of Buddha as a demi-god seems to be at odds with the original tenets of the religion.

If by 'the poster' you mean Necron99's description of Theravada Buddhism, he very much is wrong; the popular forms of religion you see around Thailand and Theravada are not synonymous and it's just wrong to treat them as such.

I then read Confession of a Buddhist Atheist by Stephen Batchelor, and discovered that the religiosity and ritual isn't an essential part of Buddhism

You can construct a belief system based on anything you like. Whether or not you are justified in appropriating to it labels traditionally ascribed to what are largely entirely different belief systems is a completely different matter.

[Passing Through]

'the teaching of the elders'

... & their spin on the Buddha's thoughts.

That's a slightly odd comment to make on a thread (started by you) about Stephen Batchelor.

[JayZee]

the popular forms of religion you see around Thailand and Theravada are not synonymous and it's just wrong to treat them as such.

You can assert all the academic pedantry you like, but the average Thai will neither understand you, or give your views any credence.

[Passing Through]

You can assert all the academic pedantry you like, but the average Thai will neither understand you, or give your views any credence.

Perhaps, perhaps not (though it's a tad depressing to see simply demonstrating what is barely even entry-level knowledge of the subject described as 'academic pedantry') but either way, that's got no relevance whatsoever to what I wrote.

[toddaniels]

You can assert all the academic pedantry you like, but the average Thai will neither understand you, or give your views any credence.

WOW, thanx for those "wordz-'o-wizdom"!!!

Any other topics you wanna expound on or enlighten us with? Yeah, didn't think so..

FYI (for your irritation): it is my own personal observation after living in and amongst these people the last 10+ year, that they're as buddhist as I am a christian. By that I mean when it suits either of us to wave our religious card around for people to see, for some real or imagined benefit to ourselves.

I'll leave you posting pundits to hash this out further as I've got to do..

[JayZee]

FYI (for your irritation): it is my own personal observation after living in and amongst these people the last 10+ year, that they're as buddhist as I am a christian.

Not irritated at all - and that's pretty much what I said.

WOW, thanx for those "wordz-'o-wizdom"!!!

No wisdom - just personal observation, like you. I'll leave the wisdom to others just passing through ...

[Munted]

'the teaching of the elders'

... & their spin on the Buddha's thoughts.

& you know better, of course.

An unwarranted assumption, of course. So you will deny that whatever culture Buddhism has come into contact with, that whatever form it evolved into, came about completely without the influence from the political and religious influences around it? The point of Bachelor's perspective is that he is attempting to argue the case for Buddhism amongst a Western audience, who likely aren't going to want to adopt the Thai version and it's many quirky, and frankly, authoritarian manifestations. That isn't an unreasonable thing to do. Neither is it anti-Thai.

[stroller]

... The point of Bachelor's perspective is that he is attempting to argue the case for Buddhism amongst a Western audience, who likely aren't going to want to adopt the Thai version and it's many quirky, and frankly, authoritarian manifestations. That isn't an unreasonable thing to do. Neither is it anti-Thai.

I agree.
That's what I kinda tried to say earlier.

Unfortunately, it was followed immediately by the usual shite knocking something neither understood nor appreciated.

[billy the kid]

let me try and put it in a nutshell.
all the animals, the fish in the seas, the mountains and rivers etc etc
thought played no part in creating.
Thought created our reality , all the churches, cathedrals, temples, mosques etc. and all things inside this buildings and also the Illusions of the after-life in heaven or hell.
All the wonderful machines including the war machine.
all this is our reality.
Now taking this and using thought to seek Truth will never ever work.
Only when the Self/ Thought is not operating can you maybe come upon Truth.
It can only come to you when self is totally absent.
you have all the other senses ,eyes, smell, hearing etc operating.

so if you're 'seeking' Truth you'll never come upon it. Never. Amen.

[billy the kid]

All our thoughts come from memory, the past.
and using this is a waste of time
time is thought's buddy
if there is no thought
there is no time.

[thaimeme]

All our thoughts come from memory, the past.
and using this is a waste of time
time is thought's buddy
if there is no thought
there is no time.

Conditioning and manipulation...