Oz Pension in Thailand

[terry57]

Question to self funded retirees, do you pay tax on income as a resident or non resident, because as I read it, as a non resident it's a flat 30% tax on all income earned in OZ.

I inquired about this very question 3 months ago when I was in OZ.

Australians do not pay tax on any income source until they earn 22 K. That's not the exact figure but its around there give or take a K.

So that means one can earn 22 K tax free and every dollar after that tax is payable.

[terry57]

^^

I am still classed as a resident so maybe different for a Non resident.

[Headworx]

^Whole different ball game for non-residents. No tax-free threshold for starters. There's ways non-residents can get around investment income tax to some degree, including paying 15% withholding tax on things like bank interest. But it's best to have some shark suited legal beagle on your payroll to advise on the ever-changing tax laws down there. Fuckin hell I've seen some guys who were residents but worked overseas and tried to hide the income come unglued. That's a position you do NOT want to ever be in.

[jamescollister]

^^

I am still classed as a resident so maybe different for a Non resident.

Well Tel, bit of thought needed then, they, OZ government said non resident after 6 months, doubt know if that's per calendar year or 6 months straight.
You need to know how much you lose, tax wise if you are declared non resident, if your $22 grand is right then you lose $6,600 right there alone.

Trouble with theses cnuts is they back date things, you can do the right thing, be honest and they come back years later saying they have re assisted and you owe them X dollars.

Took a mates passport at the airport, no leaving until he cleared his tax bill, strange, can get you for taxes, but not for terrorism.

[Necron99]

If your income is earned in Oz and you spend your time in LOS you don;t pay Aust tax.
I spent a year in that situation and come tax time got it all back.

[jamescollister]

If your income is earned in Oz and you spend your time in LOS you don;t pay Aust tax.
I spent a year in that situation and come tax time got it all back.

Lost me there, Australia doesn't tax foreigners, non residents on income earned in OZ.
Like to know how that works.

[Necron99]

If your income is earned in Oz and you spend your time in LOS you don;t pay Aust tax.
I spent a year in that situation and come tax time got it all back.

Lost me there, Australia doesn't tax foreigners, non residents on income earned in OZ.
Like to know how that works.

I was working for an Oz company and being paid and taxed in Oz, but physically based in Thailand. I think you need to be away 9 months to qualify and maintain an Oz residence. Got all my tax back.

Tez has rental income and his super, should be in the same boat if he stays out long enough.

[terry57]

Well Tel, bit of thought needed then, they, OZ government said non resident after 6 months, doubt know if that's per calendar year or 6 months straight.

You need to know how much you lose, tax wise if you are declared non resident, if your $22 grand is right then you lose $6,600 right there alone.

I only newly retired so I'm not full bottle on this stuff. At the moment I am trying to cover my bases by maintaining a permanent address in Perth and returning home twice a year for a few weeks. Also pay into Private health.

My Income is my Super fund which I pay no tax on and I pull 19 K from my rental.

That's under the tax threshold so all good so far. At the moment can't see how they could class me as Non resident ?

Dunno how it actually works.

[terry57]

Tez has rental income and his super, should be in the same boat if he stays out long enough.

What boats that then ? I'm a tad confused on this issue.

[jamescollister]

If your income is earned in Oz and you spend your time in LOS you don;t pay Aust tax.
I spent a year in that situation and come tax time got it all back.

Lost me there, Australia doesn't tax foreigners, non residents on income earned in OZ.
Like to know how that works.

I was working for an Oz company and being paid and taxed in Oz, but physically based in Thailand. I think you need to be away 9 months to qualify and maintain an Oz residence. Got all my tax back.

Tez has rental income and his super, should be in the same boat if he stays out long enough.

Still lost me, working in Thailand needs a work permit and you need to pay Thai taxes, double taxation agreement means you only pay taxes in one country.
Money transferred in to Australia or Thailand is not taxable as it's taxed in the country where it is earned.
Income earned in OZ by a non resident is taxed at 30%, if it was otherwise no foreign owned company/person would pay taxes.

[Necron99]

If your income is earned in Oz and you spend your time in LOS you don;t pay Aust tax.
I spent a year in that situation and come tax time got it all back.

Lost me there, Australia doesn't tax foreigners, non residents on income earned in OZ.
Like to know how that works.

I was working for an Oz company and being paid and taxed in Oz, but physically based in Thailand. I think you need to be away 9 months to qualify and maintain an Oz residence. Got all my tax back.

Tez has rental income and his super, should be in the same boat if he stays out long enough.

Still lost me, working in Thailand needs a work permit and you need to pay Thai taxes, double taxation agreement means you only pay taxes in one country.
Money transferred in to Australia or Thailand is not taxable as it's taxed in the country where it is earned.
Income earned in OZ by a non resident is taxed at 30%, if it was otherwise no foreign owned company/person would pay taxes.

Didn't have a work permit. Oz doesn't have a tax treaty with thailand, or didn't then.
Out of the country long enough and you get you tax on any taxable income back.
Simple.

[terry57]

^ ^

So in my case once they decide to class me as non resident I must pay 30% tax on my rental income I gather.

The question being when will they do that considering I'm in and out. ?

[Headworx]

At the moment can't see how they could class me as Non resident ?

Dunno how it actually works.

There's no way you could be declared non-res I wouldn't think, even if you wanted to be. Not with a house, car, and caravan in Oz + frequent return trips. A mate went though a similar thing a few years ago, as long as he owned an apartment (that was empty), bank accounts, a car, and a motorbike, they said he had too many ties to Oz to be considered a non-res. Hence, the money he was earning in Indonesia was taxable in Oz, even though he was living in Pattaya!. it's a minefield, and even the people who're paid to keep on top of the ever-changing Expat tax laws get confused because there's some fine lines being tip-toed at times.

[terry57]

^

Cheers, good info. Thanks.

No way I want to be classed as a Non-resident.

I will be staying in Thailand as long as every thing remains good but Australia I call home.

Easy as that really

[jamescollister]

Here's the tax treaty


http://nukbunchee.com/tax/nation/eng/australia_e.pdf

It also covers those usufructs that people think covers their house ownership.

[jamescollister]

From the tax department, in your case terry, if you house is rented out it may not be considered a residence, but an investment.

The primary test of tax residency is called the 'resides test'. If you reside in Australia, you are considered an Australian resident for tax purposes and do not need to apply any of the other residency tests.
If you do not satisfy the resides test, you will still be considered an Australian resident if you satisfy one of three statutory tests:
The domicile test: You are an Australian resident if your domicile (broadly, the place that is your permanent home) is in Australia, unless we are satisfied that your permanent place of abode is outside Australia.
The 183 day test: If you are actually present in Australia for more than half the income year, whether continuously or with breaks, you may be said to have a constructive residence in Australia, unless it can be established that your usual place of abode is outside Australia and you have no intention of taking up residence here.

[howardino]

Well Tel, bit of thought needed then, they, OZ government said non resident after 6 months, doubt know if that's per calendar year or 6 months straight.

You need to know how much you lose, tax wise if you are declared non resident, if your $22 grand is right then you lose $6,600 right there alone.

I only newly retired so I'm not full bottle on this stuff. At the moment I am trying to cover my bases by maintaining a permanent address in Perth and returning home twice a year for a few weeks. Also pay into Private health.

My Income is my Super fund which I pay no tax on and I pull 19 K from my rental.

That's under the tax threshold so all good so far. At the moment can't see how they could class me as Non resident ?

Dunno how it actually works.

You are right about Super/Allocated Pension roll over you will pay no tax.If the 19k is at market value,other houses in the area receive approximately the same rent you will be ok.If you are letting a friend rent cheaply to look after place that can cause a few problems.Returning home twice a year is a very good move

[terry57]

Unless it can be established that your usual place of abode is outside Australia and you have no intention of taking up residence here.

How are they going to work that one out.

I have a mailing address, a house, a car, a caravan, A Medibank #, complete a tax return each year and have Health insurance. ?

I may want to move back to Perth tomorrow, Who knows EH.

I may never go back but I may go back tomorrow. ?????

[Codesh]

Unless it can be established that your usual place of abode is outside Australia and you have no intention of taking up residence here.

How are they going to work that one out.

I have a mailing address, a house, a car, a caravan, A Medibank #, complete a tax return each year and have Health insurance. ?

I may want to move back to Perth tomorrow, Who knows EH.

I may never go back but I may go back tomorrow. ?????

Exactly my thinking Terry. I have kept as many links with Oz as I can. However, I am still not confident I am safe from suddenly being declared a non-resident and owing back taxes. That would probably impoverish me and force me to go back and try to live on the pension....

[terry57]

^

To be perfectly honest I know nothing about being declared a Non-resident.


All I know is that I do not want to be declared a Non resident so I figure the more ties I have to Perth the better.

Exactly why I return every 6 months. Show ones face in other words.

Christ, one would have to be a mad man to cut ties with Australia.

[jamescollister]

^

To be perfectly honest I know nothing about being declared a Non-resident.


All I know is that I do not want to be declared a Non resident so I figure the more ties I have to Perth the better.

Exactly why I return every 6 months. Show ones face in other words.

Christ, one would have to be a mad man to cut ties with Australia.

It's not you that cuts them, but the government, my case they just said you don't live here, so sad to bad.
It's then up to you to prove otherwise, not that easy.

[terry57]

^

I suppose it all boils down to what links you have with AUS and how often you go back.

Anyway, I read a post by an Australian guy a few years ago that said he was so happy when he marked his departure card as " Resident departing permanently ".

He was coming to live in Thailand.

Jesus, that's a big call innit

Much rather leave the door open myself.

[howardino]

That magnetic strip in your passport tells them every thing they were to know