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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick
    I used to try the " Bai ba - bai duui ? " but it went over their heads ( maybe it was my pronunciation - I am going mad , do you want to come ? )

    now I just give them the bai noon and point in the direction I am heading
    I cvnt wait 'till Jesus teaches me this language (i.e., I become enlightened).

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    khun kru suay mai?
    Neverna; IF you ask a question like that I'd wager you're NEVER gonna speak more than "2-word-tourist-thai", "taxi-thai" or "horse-peak".

    I don't care if the thai teaching me is a dragon lady!! I'm tryin' to learn thai.

    If I want a young beautiful gurl, I'll grab a Soi side whore.
    Uhh, my post was not directed at you. It was a reply to wjblaney in response to the post (number 17) by ... wjblaney. Unless you are actually wjblaney.
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    I used to try the " Bai ba - bai duui ? " but it went over their heads ( maybe it was my pronunciation - I am going mad , do you want to come ? )
    Perhaps because you forgot to add a question word. bai duui mai? bai duui gan mai? khun yaak bai duui mai?

  4. #29
    Thailand Expat Black Heart's Avatar
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    Good on you WBlaney.

    I also hope you visit the Foreign Language thread in the Lounge.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Uhh, my post was not directed at you. It was a reply to wjblaney in response to the post (number 17) by ... wjblaney. Unless you are actually wjblaney.
    What, is there new secret squirrel rule where we can only respond to the O/P of a thread? That's sure gonna put a crimp on the longevity of the threads...

    Why am I always the last to know?

  6. #31
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    No, but if you had read wjblaney's post, you wouldn't have written such a stupid post in reply to mine.

    Cut that, you are toddanielz. You probably would have.

  7. #32
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    ^ Now was that comment about Tod Daniels, really necessary?

    Strike that.. It probably was...
    (as an aside where is the strike thru character tab on this forum)?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    I also hope you visit the Foreign Language thread in the Lounge.
    Wow, yeah, if only. I've wanted to learn Spanish for years now (lived most of my life 100 miles from the Mexican border, lived most of my adult life in Santa Ana, CA with a total pop. of 333,000, 78% of which identify as Hispanic or Latino, have traveled to Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador). I've also lived for a year in the French quarter of Montreal, the most beautiful women, food and culture I've ever experienced. What I'd give to learn French.
    “The Master said, At fifty, I knew what were the biddings of Heaven. At sixty, I heard them with docile ear. At seventy, I could follow the dictates of my own heart; for what I desired no longer overstepped the boundaries of right.”

  9. #34
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    Just wondering how the O/P is getting on with their thai studies?

    Any progress reports?

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    OK. Yeah, it's frustrating, as usual. Tough to grade my progress, too, but am upbeat about it. This teacher likes to test writing skills in the transcription language. Last night for homework, for example, she said write 5 sentences using the comparative "kwaa" (more than) and 5 using the superlative "thii sut" (the most). Then this morning she handed out a mimeograph sheet of 10 questions and we were tasked with writing the answers on the sheet. But after finishing, instead of handing it in we paired off and asked our partner for the 10 answers and she monitored each of the 5 conversations as her evaluation. So she mixes it up in a way that you can't anticipate, as a good teacher will. So I give her high marks.

  11. #36
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    Well, I dunno how much writing thai in karaoke will help you, because last time I checked thais can't read it. Plus once you make the leap to reading thai the karaoke version is useless.

    Still, their must be some method to their madness, (or not given that this is thailand)...

    Personally, I'd tell the teacher you don't have any interest in writing karaoke.. In fact off all the schools I've toured I've never seen one which makes students write ANYTHING using karaoke..

    Good Luck..

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    It's being able to pronounce thai words using a romanized alphabet that I like. So you can practice on your own for one thing. There's an exchange student in our class from China who is studying at Chiang Mai University for a year and before class or during breaks she reads and speaks under her breath: like counting from 1 to 9999. I think the karaoke style is an immense help. It's just that you have to go over it and over it and over it again until the grammar forms and vocab sinks in. So is it the speediest way to learn thai? I don't know. I'm not looking for that anyways. I wonder about her though. I don't know if she's taking classes in Thai yet. I know she wants to go on to be an MD so I figure she's got the brains to succeed. I do find it strange to have a full-time foreign exchange student in our class.

  13. #38
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    No wjblaney, I wasn't denigrating the "karaoke system" in the least.. I've seen it produce hundreds and hundreds of competent foreign speakers of thai over the years..

    Like I say, "karaoke is the bridge over the river Thai" it gets foreigners speaking something resembling thai enough they can carry on a conversation if/when they make the jump to learning to read thai script..

    As I said earlier, I've just never seen is a single school which has students write things in karaoke.

    Personally I can't see the reasoning behind it because it's primary use is as "training wheels" to get you speaking thai, understanding thai sentence structure BEFORE you invest the time it takes to read thai proficiently.

    Still good luck, keep at it, you'll be fine.. Above all don't stress out!! Sheesh you're just studying thai, it's not like it's anything serious or life changing...

  14. #39
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    I think we are right on the same page so I won't quote your whole post, just the bits that I think are relevant to this "karaoke system".

    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels
    No wjblaney, I wasn't denigrating the "karaoke system" in the least.. I've seen it produce hundreds and hundreds of competent foreign speakers of thai over the years..
    I think I have an exact idea, as of just today, what you mean by this. The teacher rambles on at a speed that is impossible for new students to comprehend in its entirety. The students all ramble back what she prompts them to. Then she randomly asks one student at a time some question. There are maybe some words or form to the question that is comprehensible to us students but complete comprehension isn't at all what she is seeking. She just wants an answer. And my stupid classmates are all giving it to her. When she gets to me, I try to make sense out of the question rather than spout some incomprehensible babble back at her just because she asks me a question. If I can make sense out it, as well as know how to reply correctly, I will. If not, the best she'll get out of me is "mai sapp", but, usually, "phut tik thii" followed by "I don't know" or sometimes "huh?" or I won't say anything. I'm the only who does that and I know it's acceptable because the teachers have all told me personally the most important thing is to "just come to class and listen."

    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels
    Personally I can't see the reasoning behind it because it's primary use is as "training wheels" to get you speaking thai, understanding thai sentence structure BEFORE you invest the time it takes to read thai proficiently.
    Exactly. The reasoning behind it is not to produce intelligent learners of the language. It's to produce speakers. But you can use the process to become an intelligent student of the language, as long as you're OK with your own behavior. I mean, mine is definitely nonconformist and the school is OK with that. I don't disrupt (for example, one rule is to not ask questions), I don't throw tantrums, I cooperate within my capability, I do the homework. But I'm no fuckin' parakeet.

    And one more thing, I'm the only student I've heard say to her at the end of the class: "khop khun, krap". And guess what she does infallibly? She says "khop khun, ka!".

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    Might as well bump this thread.

    Well, it's over: that is, the 6 week course I took that kicked off this thread. Final evaluation: not so good. The long and the short of it is: 5 subject areas (Pronunciation, Tones, Vocabulary, Grammar Patterns, Comprehension), 3 possible scores (good, fair, poor). I scored fair in all 5 areas. Then there's the overall rating: AA (Above Avg.), A (Avg.) and BA (Below Avg.). She didn't mark it. Then there's one more box: RS (repeat due to scholastic). She marked that box and listed areas to be improved: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5...

    To be continued...

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    Well, at least you hung in there and gave it the college try.. That's something..

    I'm not dialed into the schools up there so wouldn't know where to send you to try a different one..

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    Haven't given up on the school. I have a ton of really good notes. But I always went thru school (Uni level) with the idea of taking really good notes for passing written exams. Thus cramming and passing with flying colors was no big deal. Of course, most of whatever was learned was soon forgotten. I'm not used to conversation based evaluations. I just have to keep at it until the memory decides to retain it all. Going to take a break now (trip to India for a couple of weeks) then come back and try it all over again. I still have met my objective if by the end of the year I have retaken the Basic Level 1 class two more times. Then Level 2 next year (fingers crossed).

  18. #43
    Thailand Expat Black Heart's Avatar
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    How much speaking do you end up doing at the end of the course.

    Meaning, how much of class time if you and the students speaking?


    I'm aware of the "listen only" part. How long does that last?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    How much speaking do you end up doing at the end of the course.

    Meaning, how much of class time if you and the students speaking?


    I'm aware of the "listen only" part. How long does that last?
    It's never in a lecture format. She'll speak for a minute or two at most before she start's prompting the students to speak. So I guess it's supposed to be about 50/50 but you know the teacher ends up speaking most of the time so I would say it's more like 60/40 but the most important thing is the listening, whether it's the students speaking or the teacher. I am downright silent most of the time. This is acceptable too, although not the brilliant thing to do, if you want to pass with flying colors. The teacher will just point to someone else. But it puts me on the spot and that helps too. We do have a few written evals that work like this: she'll have us list as many verbs, adj, nouns and question words we can think of, within a specific period of time. Then we'll put them into sentences and practice in pairs. Or she'll hand out mimeographs of about 16 questions which you have to write the answers to in a very short period of time. She's quite proactive and the class is extremely interactive.

  20. #45
    Thailand Expat Black Heart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    How much speaking do you end up doing at the end of the course.

    Meaning, how much of class time if you and the students speaking?


    I'm aware of the "listen only" part. How long does that last?
    It's never in a lecture format. She'll speak for a minute or two at most before she start's prompting the students to speak. So I guess it's supposed to be about 50/50 but you know the teacher ends up speaking most of the time so I would say it's more like 60/40 but the most important thing is the listening, whether it's the students speaking or the teacher. I am downright silent most of the time. This is acceptable too, although not the brilliant thing to do, if you want to pass with flying colors. The teacher will just point to someone else. But it puts me on the spot and that helps too. We do have a few written evals that work like this: she'll have us list as many verbs, adj, nouns and question words we can think of, within a specific period of time. Then we'll put them into sentences and practice in pairs. Or she'll hand out mimeographs of about 16 questions which you have to write the answers to in a very short period of time. She's quite proactive and the class is extremely interactive.
    Very informative response, wj.

    I am taking a class of French. My speaking is low, but my listening is high as well as my reading - higher I mean (not "high level).

    When I'm called sometimes I cop out and give a crap answer; other times I can use better usage.

    I like classes, but they are a class. We go with the group. You cannot go too fast, nor go too slow. We are a group.

    I could learn more quickly with a good private teacher (I found one) but I like the pace of the class and it's good to absorb vocab steadily and slowly.

    But I realize (as I think you have) that "finishing" a class or a book does not mean one has mastered the course or can functionally use it. Often, it's the opposite.

    I read a grammar book and vocab book on my own out on the town as a hobby.


    I will continue the Francais.

    I'm also studying Chinese one-on-one and love it.

    Good for the mind.

    Good luck on your Thai. I hope you keep going, if you want to of course.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    When I'm called sometimes I cop out and give a crap answer; other times I can use better usage.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    I like classes, but they are a class.
    i.e., "work", not "boredom", not "fun". discipline is required to like work. How did you learn that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    I could learn more quickly with a good private teacher (I found one) but I like the pace of the class and it's good to absorb vocab steadily and slowly.
    I thought at first the obviously best thing would be to go at my own speed, which a private teacher provides. Now I know: "you'd be a lazy bastard to the max."

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    Good luck on your Thai. I hope you keep going, if you want to of course.
    Same to you.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    When I'm called sometimes I cop out and give a crap answer; other times I can use better usage.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    I like classes, but they are a class.
    i.e., "work", not "boredom", not "fun". discipline is required to like work. How did you learn that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    I could learn more quickly with a good private teacher (I found one) but I like the pace of the class and it's good to absorb vocab steadily and slowly.
    I thought at first the obviously best thing would be to go at my own speed, which a private teacher provides. Now I know: "you'd be a lazy bastard to the max."
    A private teacher would be more work for you and it would be more intense because there is only you and the teacher. There's nowhere for you to cop out, hide at the back or pass on a turn at speaking.

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    I've found in the beginning especially in thai conversational classes only group lessons are the way to go.. That is providing everyone is a beginner and not taking the class for the umteenth time so they can be a super-star in the retard thai class. <- no offense intended or implied...

    Once you get a few modules or levels of conversation under your belt you can better benefit from a private teacher but early on it's almost a no brainer to take group classes given their low price point and the fact you gotta crawl before you walk and walk before you run, with the language.

    Good luck..

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    Thailand Expat Black Heart's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=wjblaney;3079145]
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    I like classes, but they are a class.

    wjblaney:

    i.e., "work", not "boredom", not "fun". discipline is required to like work. How did you learn that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Heart
    I could learn more quickly with a good private teacher (I found one) but I like the pace of the class and it's good to absorb vocab steadily and slowly.
    To clarify,

    A class moves slower. A class is not really "work," but it can be "boring" depending on the situation and instructor and a class does not really require "discipline."

    A private teacher requires ALL OF THIS.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels
    Once you get a few modules or levels of conversation under your belt you can better benefit from a private teacher but early on it's almost a no brainer to take group classes given their low price point and the fact you gotta crawl before you walk and walk before you run, with the language.
    Sounds like sage advice.

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