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  1. #1
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    Video: US Military Kills Civilians in Iraq

    (Forward to 31:11, Crazyhorse shoots 3 hellfire missles into a building which appears to have been occupied by unarmed men.)

    Please watch and share! Youtube is trying to remove the videos.

    Link included in quote below.

    Wikileaks has obtained and decrypted this previously unreleased video footage from a US Apache helicopter in 2007. It shows Reuters journalist Namir Noor-Eldeen, driver Saeed Chmagh, and several others as the Apache shoots and kills them in a public square in Eastern Baghdad. They are apparently assumed to be insurgents. After the initial shooting, an unarmed group of adults and children in a minivan arrives on the scene and attempts to transport the wounded. They are fired upon as well. The official statement on this incident initially listed all adults as insurgents and claimed the US military did not know how the deaths ocurred. Wikileaks released this video with transcripts and a package of supporting documents on April 5th 2010 on http://collateralmurder.com




    ............

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    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    And mysteriously, the military cannot find this video.

    Military can’t find Iraq video

    Clip was withheld from Reuters after 2007 request

    updated 9:21 p.m. ET April 6, 2010



    WASHINGTON - The U.S. military said Tuesday it can't find its copy of a video that shows two employees of the Reuters news agency being killed by Army helicopters in 2007, after a leaked version circulated the Internet and renewed questions about the attack.


    Capt. Jack Hanzlik, a spokesman for U.S. Central Command, said that the military has not been able to locate the video within its files after being asked to authenticate the version available online.


    "We had no reason to hold the video at (Central Command), nor did the higher headquarters in Iraq," Hanzlik said in an e-mailed statement. "We're attempting to retrieve the video from the unit who did the investigation."
    Story continues below ↓
    Link & Entire: Military can't find its Iraq killing video - Military- msnbc.com

  3. #3
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    IMO first time they fire the chain-gun it seems okay, besides the photo-guy from Reuters there clearly is a guy carrying a handheld rocket-launcher, it also seems by the way the photo-guy crouches and peaks around the building that they quite possible are there for a photo opportunity of an attack on US forces, why else would they be sneaking around buildings with armed "terrorists" ?. at 3min 40-45 sec in the vid. the guy with the RPG and one with an AK47 is clearly seen just above the crosshair.

    On the other hand I do have a problem with why they fire at the van, that can be just anyone coming along seeing a wounded man crawling on the street and trying to get him to a hospital, and at that time the Bradley's and substantial ground-forces are so close that they could just have waited, it cant be because they did not want them to remove a potential prisoner since they kill the wounded guy when they fire at the van!!, the shooting of those children could have been avoided if they had been just a bit more patient, that is definitely the Apache guy being over zealous and trigger-happy. The only defense regarding shooting at the van, is that it is war and shit happens in the heat of it.

    PS. I hope those kids made it
    Last edited by larvidchr; 07-04-2010 at 02:28 PM.

  4. #4
    Elite Mumbler
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    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    with armed "terrorists" ?
    Not sure I would consider someone fighting an army that has illegally invaded his country a "terrorist".
    The "RPG" could also be a boom mic. As for an AK47, news crews sometimes travel with bodyguards.


    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    that is definitely the Apache guy being over zealous and trigger-happy.
    You're right there.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    PS. I hope those kids made it
    Whatever for? Surely these kids will just end up fighting the INVADING army in the future . . . You know it makes sense, after all:

    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    it is war and shit happens in the heat of it.
    Almost sounds like a Hallmark greeting card one could send the parents of these kids . . .

    Anyway, they're only Arabs . . right?

  6. #6
    Pronce. PH said so AGAIN!
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    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    The only defense regarding shooting at the van, is that it is war and shit happens in the heat of it.
    That's not a defense, and I can't see how the van was in any way threatening anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    with armed "terrorists" ?
    Not sure I would consider someone fighting an army that has illegally invaded his country a "terrorist".
    The "RPG" could also be a boom mic. As for an AK47, news crews sometimes travel with bodyguards.


    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    that is definitely the Apache guy being over zealous and trigger-happy.
    You're right there.
    I understand that some have that view, thats why I put the word terrorists in " " pickel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    PS. I hope those kids made it
    Whatever for? Surely these kids will just end up fighting the INVADING army in the future . . . You know it makes sense, after all:

    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    it is war and shit happens in the heat of it.
    Almost sounds like a Hallmark greeting card one could send the parents of these kids . . .

    Anyway, they're only Arabs . . right?
    Just out and cruising for a fight are we PH, there is nothing like what you post implied in my post so fuck off, don't try to make one of your usual shitstirring issues out of a pair of innocent injured children.
    Last edited by larvidchr; 07-04-2010 at 10:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    The only defense regarding shooting at the van, is that it is war and shit happens in the heat of it.
    That's not a defense, and I can't see how the van was in any way threatening anything.
    No you are right it is not a proper defense but the "only" possible, and as I posted I also thought that it was wrong and unjustifiable, but the fact remains that lots of these kind of things happen in war and other extreme situations, and people under extreme stress and emotions don't always do the logical or right things, history is sadly filled with examples of that, and because of the inevitability of it happening, it is also accepted to a degree by laws and the the powers that make decisions about these things.

    That is real life, and not the fantasy world of the perfect flawless human, total law order and justice, we can only dream about, we have to factor in what we ask of young people, and human weakness.

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    Geez. You can see the same 'attitude' in 'boy' soldiers in "Fahrenheit 911'. It is deeply shocking to see humans so programmed into believing that other humans are worth killing....just because someone told them so.

    It only goes to show that the military (most countries) only take those who are incapable of remorse, compassion & general individual thinking ability.
    Idiots! I'm surrounded by idiots!

  11. #11
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
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    a link to the torrent of the original video - http://collateralmurder.com/file/Col...ll.mp4.torrent

    in the first section I believe I saw 1 RPG and up to 2 AK style rifles.

  12. #12
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    I'm not really interested in jumping into the fray here, although I would like to point out that such incidents are pretty much unavoidable, especially in conflicts in which the armed forces are fighting an enemy that is not always immediately distinguishable from the populace (or that may even be the populace). In other words, the US and its allies shouldn't have started that war in the first place.

    As to the incident itself, Andrew Sullivan is getting a fair amount of interesting input at his blog from experienced soldiers, and their perspectives are worth considering: The Lies Of The Pentagon, Ctd - The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan
    “You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think.” Dorothy Parker

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    PS. I hope those kids made it
    Whatever for? Surely these kids will just end up fighting the INVADING army in the future . . . You know it makes sense, after all:

    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    it is war and shit happens in the heat of it.
    Almost sounds like a Hallmark greeting card one could send the parents of these kids . . .

    Anyway, they're only Arabs . . right?
    Just out and cruising for a fight are we PH, there is nothing like what you post implied in my post so fuck off, don't try to make one of your usual shitstirring issues out of a pair of innocent injured children.

    Uuuh, using some naughty language there, larvidchr . . . hit a sore spot? Can't discuss your way out so you resort to profanity?

    Not cruising for a fight at all, just answering your post and as far as shit-stirring an issue of injured or killed children . . . you're right, let's not waste words about them. If there was no implication on your part then why get so upset?

    How very nonchalant you seem about these issues . . . but then it's war and shit happens . . . the best explanation of them all.

    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo
    In other words, the US and its allies shouldn't have started that war in the first place.
    But that's the spin, isn't it . . . the west didn't start the war and they are not the invaders . . . they are fighting terrorists in their own country . . . that would be Saudi Arabia and Yemen, by the way . . . GPS just a tad off

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo
    In other words, the US and its allies shouldn't have started that war in the first place.
    exactly, and another reason why you shouldn't give big guns to kids

  15. #15
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    oh, and this is clearly another war crime,

    it's clear than American soldiers need to face the war crime tribunal, like everyone else

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    oh, and this is clearly another war crime,

    it's clear than American soldiers need to face the war crime tribunal, like everyone else
    Pas du tout . . . not at all . . . as was noted:

    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    it is war and shit happens in the heat of it.

  17. #17
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    on that blog, one of the experienced military "officer" think that the second shooting was over the top and clearly out of control.

    The problem is that service men in Iraq are losing it completely. It's Vietnam all over. It will be the Chechen war of the Americans and we all know it ended for the Russians, dead end

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat
    Pas du tout . . . not at all . . . as was noted:
    well shit will happen in wars, no doubt, but accountability needs to be there, and that's the war crime tribunal

    actually, the only thing that war accomplish is shit, so at the end the war crime tribunal for all who started that conflict would be a good start. Bair, Bush and the other silly poseur from the coalition of the willing.

  19. #19
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    on that blog, one of the experienced military "officer" think that the second shooting was over the top and clearly out of control.
    I would expect the majority of people would think that

    I think it should also be pointed out that the apache helicopters were not under attack , so their actions should not be judged as if they were on the ground under fire and shitting their pants. Their professionalism as highly trained officers should be questioned given the attitudes displayed by them and their controller(s).
    If you torture data for enough time , you can get it to say what you want.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    but accountability needs to be there, and that's the war crime tribunal
    But the US is not a signatory, is it? Does the US not have a type of self-given extraterritoriality clause?

    It is not a signatory to the ICC

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    ^ would have Nazi Germany be a signatory ? probably not, that shouldn't stop us from going after American soldiers.

    Of course the US know they are guilty, they can't control their own men whose majority are brain dead, therefore the US doesn't play along and act like a rogue state. A bit like Israel. They are part of the UN aren't they ? their violation of the UN charter is enough to put on them on a world crime tribunal, but of course no country will be courageous enough to do it, not even China.

  22. #22
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    American terrorists.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    On the other hand I do have a problem with why they fire at the van
    That was the disturbing bit for me. Just before the van turned up, there was the one wounded guy moving around, crawling, and the aircrew were saying stuff like "...just pick up a weapon..." The implication of this was that he was injured, didn't have a weapon, so the gunner couldn't shoot unless the wounded guy armed himself.

    Then the van pulled up and guys got out, picked up the wounded guy and put him in the van, obviously going to cart him off for medical treatment. This was the signal for the gunner to request permission to open fire on the van! It seems as if unarmed wounded guy on the ground = can't shoot but unarmed wounded guy inside a makeshift ambulance = can shoot.

    Baffling.
    The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.

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    Here are parts of the transcript. I've highlighted the bits I referred to.

    05:30 There's one guy moving down there but he's uh, he's wounded.
    05:35 All right, we'll let 'em know so they can hurry up and get over here.
    05:40 One-Eight, we also have one individual, uh, appears to be wounded trying to crawl away.
    05:49 Roger, we're gonna move down there.
    05:51 Roger, we'll cease fire.
    05:54 Yeah, we won't shoot anymore.
    06:01 He's getting up.
    06:02 Maybe he has a weapon down in his hand?
    06:04 No, I haven't seen one yet.
    06:07 I see you guys got that guy crawling right now on that curb.
    06:08 Yeah, I got him. I put two rounds [30mm cannon shells] near him, and you guys were shooting over there too, so uh we'll see.
    06:14 Yeah, roger that.
    06:16 Bushmaster Thirty-Six Element; this is uh Hotel Two-Seven over.
    06:21 Hotel Two-Seven; Bushmaster Seven go ahead.
    06:24 Roger I'm just trying to make sure you guys have my turf [area], over.
    06:31 Roger we got your turf.
    06:33 Come on, buddy.
    06:38 All you gotta do is pick up a weapon.
    06:44 Crazyhorse this is Bushmaster Five, Bushmaster Four break. We are right below you right time now can you walk us onto that location over.
    06:54 This is Two-Six roger. I'll pop flares [drop flares]. We also have one individual moving. We're looking for weapons. If we see a weapon, we're gonna engage.
    07:07 Yeah Bushmaster, we have a van that's approaching and picking up the bodies.
    07:14 Where's that van at?
    07:15 Right down there by the bodies.
    07:16 Okay, yeah.
    07:18 Bushmaster; Crazyhorse. We have individuals going to the scene, looks like possibly uh picking up bodies and weapons.
    07:25 Let me engage.
    07:28 Can I shoot?
    07:31 Roger. Break. Uh Crazyhorse One-Eight request permission to uh engage.
    07:36 Picking up the wounded?
    07:38 Yeah, we're trying to get permission to engage.
    07:41 Come on, let us shoot!
    07:44 Bushmaster; Crazyhorse One-Eight.
    07:49 They're taking him.
    07:51 Bushmaster; Crazyhorse One-Eight.
    07:56 This is Bushmaster Seven, go ahead.
    07:59 Roger. We have a black SUV-uh Bongo truck [van] picking up the bodies. Request permission to engage.
    08:02 Fuck.
    08:06 This is Bushmaster Seven, roger. This is Bushmaster Seven, roger. Engage.
    08:12 One-Eight, engage.
    08:12 Clear.
    08:13 Come on!
    08:17 Clear.
    08:20 Clear.
    08:21 We're engaging.
    08:26 Coming around. Clear.
    08:27 Roger. Trying to uh...
    08:32 Clear.
    08:35 I hear 'em co.. I lost 'em in the dust.
    08:36 I got 'em.
    08:41 I'm firing.
    08:42 This is Bushmaster Forty got any BDA [Battle Damage Assessment] on that truck. Over.
    08:44 You're clear.
    08:47 This is ah Crazyhorse. Stand by.
    08:47 I can't shoot for some reason.
    08:49 Go ahead.
    08:50 I think the van's disabled.
    08:53 Go ahead and shoot it.
    08:54 I got an azimuth limit for some reason [gunner moved gunsight too far]
    09:00 Go left.
    09:03 Clear left.
    09:15 All right, Bushmaster Crazyhorse One-Eight.
    09:20 A vehicle appears to be disabled.
    09:22 There were approximately four to five individuals in vehicle moving bodies.

    Can you imagine what a fuss Fox News would have made if it was Iraqis firing on an ambulance that had just picked up a wounded US or UK serviceman?

  25. #25
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    Absolutely sickening these so called protectors of liberty have have so little regard for human life.
    And the US wonders why it is a target of terrorism. They just keep creating more terrorists with their murderous activities.

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