Only the strong will survive

[Marmite the Dog]

I've read an awful lot of opinions, facts, lies, etc., about all the warzones happening around the world and in many cases my first reaction has been 'oh no - those poor people' or 'those fucking American kunts have been screwing things up again', but there are still some unresolved, nagging questions that I'm uncertain about.

I'll try to explain what I mean as simply as possible for the non-English posters.

Since man first left Africa (or the alien spaceship) we have been killing each other over the best waterholes, animals, women, land, religion, ideals, politics or just simply for the hell of it.

Are we better than that or is killing the true nature of mankind?

Is peace on Earth something we will ever achieve or is it unattainable, and unwelcome?

Is the survival of the fittest, strongest, smartest the natural order of things and the extermination of the sickly, weak and stupid just Mother Nature's way of advancement within the human race?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure that there is a right or wrong answer.

Many westerners would argue that if the Muslims were wiped out, the Earth would be a much nicer place to be. I'm also sure that many Muslims would say the same about the extermination of the 'white man' too, but the Muslim nations are not 'the strongest' in present times, so that is not what I am discussing.

Most great civilisations have conquered and enslaved the weak. Should the West, or just the US, give in to the natural order of things and just wipe out those that don't 'fit', or are we above all that now?

[ChiangMai noon]

Interesting thread Marmite.
I don't have any answers to your question though.

I have never wanted to kill anyone, except the bloke who was rodgering my first wife, and even then, i didn't do it. Most of the people I know don't want to kill people either.
It would seem that only the power hungry and the disposessed want to kill people they have never met. so the answer would have to be to remove absolute power from the bullies and ensure that the disposessed have a place in the world.

[stroller]

Just a brief comment for now: Muslims have nothing against the "white man", their 'beef' is with non-believers, in particualr those who oppress or attack them.

Also, are you implying that "Mother Nature" is an intelligent being, or is this a manner of speaking you use to refer to Darwin's theories?

[William]

Like MtD, I believe we have fought over the world's diminishing natural resources since time began. These days we have additional complex issues, such as arbitory lines that tell us this piece of land belongs to us and we should protect it at all times/cost.

That said, I think (certainly in the West) there has been a sort of deskilling of natural thought. Too many follow the crowd mentality and live in nanny states where a few tell the many what they should be thinking and doing and rather than question those instructions like lemmings follow. The so-called "press" in the West also have a lot to answer for in this regard.

So, to answer your question, I'd agree that tirany and destruction are man's natural traits. Do we have to act like this? Well, I've rather liked life in the Star Trek movies, peace and love and all that. I especially liked the role Dr. Bones played. Maybe we should start each school day with an hour of Star Trek and people might start to get the idea that metal detectors in schools is no fun. Maybe we'll start to control the gun lobby and each of the many religious factions around the world. Possibly we could get rid of the lobbiest. Maybe we could even get things together enough to tell our leaders that this is not the way we want to live our pathetic lives and actually do something about it.

In short, what we need is a Summer of Love!

[Marmite the Dog]

Muslims have nothing against the "white man", their 'beef' is with non-believers, in particualr those who oppress or attack them.

I'm also sure that many Muslims would say the same about the extermination of the 'white man' too, but the Muslim nations are not 'the strongest' in present times, so that is not what I am discussing.

Do you have a reading problem?

[Marmite the Dog]

Also, are you implying that "Mother Nature" is an intelligent being, or is this a manner of speaking you use to refer to Darwin's theories?

Obviously, you have.

Do I really need to answer that?

[RandomChances]

From a purly anylitical point of view wiping out the muslims makes good sence. The muslim countries are generaly underdeveloped, overpopulated and oil rich. Where the rest of the world is generaly overpopulated, overdeveloped and oil poor. The only muslim neuclear power is Pakistan but I'm sure couple of well timed first strikes with either conventional weapons or tactial nuc's would take care of that, but generaly the western powers would not need to revert to neuc's

Western powers could be given the choice, with us and share in the spoils or against us, and get the same. The non oil rich parts could be turned into huge farming areas or if not sutible in the more barren remote areas, chemical plants ect, neuclear power plants, toxic waste dumps. Thereby providing the west with additional food, fossil fuel free eletricity and helping to protect the "civilised" enviroment. The western casulties would also help to overcome cronic overcrowding as many of the lower class infentry "cannon fodder" would be conscripted form the poorer inner city areas.

We are obviously talking mass genocide here so something would have to be found to be done with the millions of bodies. genocide would be much easier IMO than just concouring and having to deal with a hostile population, if America had just wiped out oll the Afgans/Iraq's they would'nt be having as many problembs as they are now.Lets face it in 300 hundred years time no one would give a shit....we'd have to do something about the christian's then ....and the jews ect..... and I'm not keen on tall people that much enless they are women

[stroller]

Muslims have nothing against the "white man", their 'beef' is with non-believers, in particualr those who oppress or attack them.

I'm also sure that many Muslims would say the same about the extermination of the 'white man' too, but the Muslim nations are not 'the strongest' in present times, so that is not what I am discussing.

Do you have a reading problem?

No, I don't, this time.
I just wanted to clarify that Muslims are fine about 'whites' who share their believes, whether you want to discuss this or not.

[Boon Mee]

From a purly anylitical point of view wiping out the muslims makes good sence. The muslim countries are generaly underdeveloped, overpopulated and oil rich. Where the rest of the world is generaly overpopulated, overdeveloped and oil poor. The only muslim neuclear power is Pakistan but I'm sure couple of well timed first strikes with either conventional weapons or tactial nuc's would take care of that, but generaly the western powers would not need to revert to neuc's

Western powers could be given the choice, with us and share in the spoils or against us, and get the same. The non oil rich parts could be turned into huge farming areas or if not sutible in the more barren remote areas, chemical plants ect, neuclear power plants, toxic waste dumps. Thereby providing the west with additional food, fossil fuel free eletricity and helping to protect the "civilised" enviroment. The western casulties would also help to overcome cronic overcrowding as many of the lower class infentry "cannon fodder" would be conscripted form the poorer inner city areas.

We are obviously talking mass genocide here so something would have to be found to be done with the millions of bodies. genocide would be much easier IMO than just concouring and having to deal with a hostile population, if America had just wiped out oll the Afgans/Iraq's they would'nt be having as many problembs as they are now.Lets face it in 300 hundred years time no one would give a shit....we'd have to do something about the christian's then ....and the jews ect..... and I'm not keen on tall people that much enless they are women

Wow!
That's some pretty heavy shit there, RC
Tall women, eh?

[Storekeeper]

I think we should all just run around naked ... then we can end the debate of whether or not women prefer men with big dicks.

[stroller]

Also, are you implying that "Mother Nature" is an intelligent being, or is this a manner of speaking you use to refer to Darwin's theories?

Obviously, you have.

Do I really need to answer that?

Well, I believe you were refering to Darwinism here, but there is also a believe that "Mother Nature" is a god- or goddess-like being, this is prominent in neo-paganism and IMO needs to be addressed when you talk about "Mother Nature". There are also attempts being made to imply an "intelligent design" in nature, thus bringing together the ideology of science and the believe in god.

I'm pointing at issues in your comment, which you weren't aware of or didn't mean to imply/address.

I think this important to consider when contemplating whether we, as humans are capable of living in harmony together or whether it is in our nature to kill each other.

Are our actions determined by survival instincts and competition, do we react to social and natural environments, are we unwittingly following some plan laid out by a superior being or what?

[reinvented]

only the insane have the strength to prosper
only those who prosper can truly judge what is sane
the world is at the mercy of a texan monkey


seriously forget the muslims,
its the portugese we should be bombing

[Whiteshiva]

Interesting thread, Marmers.

I think it basically boils down to the individuals personal values, and unfortunately, these are often rooted in, or shaped by, religion. Now most religions (perhaps all) tell us to do good things, etc, but in reality, most "believers" have little understanding of the core teachings, and focus their attention on rituals, (Look at the so-called Thai Buddhism, for example), and follow self-appointed leaders, such as priests, imams, popes, etc.

Another problem is the extent to which people are willing to fight and die for what are basically nothing more than lines on a piece of paper, aka borders. Unfortunately, the tribal culture seems to be very much alive today, and most people are too afraid to think for themselves, and/or feel threatened by those who are think outside the box. Being different is usually considered a bad thing, and everyone who does not share your (tribal) values are lesser beings. I think we are all guilty of this crime from time to time.

Personally, I'd like to see philosophy and religion (as a subject, not as a faith) thought in schools from an early age. In addition, we should encourage children to question everything they are thought, and that it is acceptable to have a different opinion and to respect those who do.

Looking at the world today, there is so much each human has in common, but many or most of us seem to focus upon the few things that make us different, and make a big deal about it, rather than accepting it, or even celebrating the fact that we are not all the same.

In a perfect world, I guess we would all be communists, unfortunately, mankind is not, and probably never will be, ready for complete equality. We need to accept our differences, and work on being more flexible when dealing with those whose ideas and values differs from our own.

[RandomChances]

From a purly anylitical point of view wiping out the muslims makes good sence. The muslim countries are generaly underdeveloped, overpopulated and oil rich. Where the rest of the world is generaly overpopulated, overdeveloped and oil poor. The only muslim neuclear power is Pakistan but I'm sure couple of well timed first strikes with either conventional weapons or tactial nuc's would take care of that, but generaly the western powers would not need to revert to neuc's

Western powers could be given the choice, with us and share in the spoils or against us, and get the same. The non oil rich parts could be turned into huge farming areas or if not sutible in the more barren remote areas, chemical plants ect, neuclear power plants, toxic waste dumps. Thereby providing the west with additional food, fossil fuel free eletricity and helping to protect the "civilised" enviroment. The western casulties would also help to overcome cronic overcrowding as many of the lower class infentry "cannon fodder" would be conscripted form the poorer inner city areas.

We are obviously talking mass genocide here so something would have to be found to be done with the millions of bodies. genocide would be much easier IMO than just concouring and having to deal with a hostile population, if America had just wiped out oll the Afgans/Iraq's they would'nt be having as many problembs as they are now.Lets face it in 300 hundred years time no one would give a shit....we'd have to do something about the christian's then ....and the jews ect..... and I'm not keen on tall people that much enless they are women

Wow!
That's some pretty heavy shit there, RC
Tall women, eh?

Not advacating it or anything, just just a talking point really...being short I allway's find I have to try and fight off the urge to invade Europe or subjugate the whole of mankind, fortunatly being a dairy farmer in the middle of nowhere makes controlling these urges rather easy

[Butterfly]

I think without the big toys, it's hardly a game of the strongest. More like the weaks trying to survive desperatly by any means. Will it work ? we might lose even with all the big toys.

[man with no head]

One word: greed.

[Mhz]

Many westerners would argue that if the Muslims were wiped out, the Earth would be a much nicer place to be.

Really?? Do many WHITE MEN think like this??

I have to say Iam really very disappointed and I know no one cares but if they think like that then bring em on.

[Marmite the Dog]

^ totally missed the fucking point as usual.

[Mhz]

I know Iam talking about something that was not your point but the thing is that you said something that disappointed me and I think I have the right to express what I felt upon reading your comment about the WHITE MEN.

What do you mean by as usual???

[Mhz]

Now back on the topic.Have you seen national geographic??

The way the strong animal hunts a weak one??

Same can be said for human beings as well.Only reason the animals kill for is food but human beings can kill for many reasons.

[barbaro]

Same can be said for human beings as well.Only reason the animals kill for is food but human beings can kill for many reasons.

That's pretty profound.

Last night I was up late watching this animal channel show. It showed a herd of deer-like animals. They standing on the banks of a river. They knew they had to cross. But the crocodiles were were....waiting....their reptilian eyes just barely visible, peeking above the surface. And then....the first deer-like animal jumped in to cross the river. The crocodiles had a feast. But in the end, most of the deer-like animals made it across.

[Skulldigger]

Well, it is true that men have been fighting to gain control over resources for a long time...

...but mankind has also brought forth thoughts and built systems that question the act of killing, attempt to regulate it, and there is a widespread belief all around the globe today that killing and war and undesirable. If killing is "the natural way", why then have these thinkers, thoughts and systems developed? Perhaps because we need to put checks on ourselves.

It is also not entirely true that animals only kill for food. Cats kill to practice their skills as well.

[stroller]

Ducks kill to destroy "undesirables" amongst their flok, chickens kill creatures who aren't chickens, I found out first hand recently...

[Whiteshiva]

Ducks kill to destroy "undesirables" amongst their flok, chickens kill creatures who aren't chickens, I found out first hand recently...

My condolences - the whole family wiped out by a flock of killer chickens?

[RDN]

From a purly anylitical point of view wiping out the muslims makes good sence. ...

If it wasn't for the fact that Muslims are living, breathing, sentient human beings, this would be a good idea. I think there was a similar topic of discussion in the '70s during the oil crisis. It's always an option, but probably best carried out by a non-political, non-aligned force, such as is often depicted in James Bond films - S.P.E.C.T.R.E., for example. Perhaps Bill Gates could create such a secret organisation, do the dirty deed and let the world pick up the pieces.

...We are obviously talking mass genocide here so something would have to be found to be done with the millions of bodies. ..

Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms. (Clint Eastwood - The Outlaw Josey Wales)