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Issues There is much going on in the world and the opportunity to discuss these issues and how they affect your world is always relevant. Your opinion is important and though we might not solve the problems confronting society, we just might open someones eyes. What is your opinion?

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Old 18-07-2008, 11:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
ChiangMai noon
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OBL's boy driver & the Great Satan
Quote:
A Turkish citizen born and raised in Germany, Murat Kurnaz was only 19 when he was arrested without explanation in Pakistan in October 2001. Handed over to the US, he spent the next 1,600 days enduring the brutal life of a prisoner at Guantanamo and various forms of torture, before being released without explanation or apology in August 2006. Here he describes the early days in his cage in Camp X-Ray, Guantanamo Bay
read the whole story here.

[PAGES] Five Years of My Life: An Innocent Man in Guantanamo by Murat Kurnaz | freedetainees.org

one of lord knows how many detainees released without charge, without apology, without explanation, without compensation.

has anybody ever been prosecuted up to now?

as far as I'm aware only 10 have ever been charged.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Our resident wussy has his knickers in a twist.

Lose any sleep over this CMN?

Best go see a shrink.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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didn't read the article did you Tex.

and that is a very pissy response.

bit long for you i suppose.

I have actually been doing some research into brit's claim that ex-detainees were responsible for commiting further atrocities even though they committed none in the first place.

still looking.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Two birds with one stone CMN, about the doco's you were asking about:

'Taxi to the Darkside' - Taxi.To.The.Dark.Side.2007.DVDRip.XviD-VoMiT : Movies > Documentary - Mininova

Award winning documentary on "Dilwar", an Afghan taxi driver, who was murdered whilst under extrajudicial detention at Bagram Air Base. Not exactly Gitmo obviously but in a related vein. Also takes a look at the CIA's use of torture and attempts by the US congress to 'jusitfy' it under the Geneva Convention. Great watch.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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in what way exactly is it wussy to feel sympathy at an injustice this grave?
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Jonathan Kay agreeing with the wussy bleeding hearts.

have a look at this.

balance is a good thing if you can't get hold of your lithium.

Quote:
This is a bad day for Canada. As I write this at 1pm Tuesday, piteous video images from Omar Khadr’s interrogation at Guantanamo Bay are not only the #1 news item on the National Post web site, but also the lead item on BBC News and USA Today. Millions of Web surfers are now wondering why Canada’s government has acquiesced — and as the video shows, even participated — in the unconscionable treatment of a blubbering boy-soldier.

As someone who otherwise considers himself one of the War on Terror’s noisiest Canadian cheerleaders, I submit that the bleeding hearts are right on this one: Omar Khadr needs to come home.
Jonathan Kay: Free Omar Khadr | freedetainees.org
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon View Post
in what way exactly is it wussy to feel sympathy at an injustice this grave?
Independent thought, reliance of facts not propoganda, lacking a rush to judgement, refusal to support the Govt. purely on the basis that they're the Govt...

These are the hallmarks of 'girly-men'.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I have spent today reading a lot of tough talk on the blogs about how Khadr should be “waterboarded until he stops crying” and such. I wonder if those same hawks could tell me how they would have turned out if they’d been told — literally, since the day they were born — about the necessity of jihad and the beauty of martyrdom; if, since early days, they’d been propagandized into believing that the West was waging a genocidal war against Muslims; and that military resistance was the only path of survival. Are we to expect some sort of inborn moral sense to activate — to tell us that everything being told to us by our own parents is wrong — even before one is old enough to shave?

I know about 20,000 former child soldiers in Sierra Leone who could tell you the answer to that question. And unlike Khadr, not one of them stands accused of “Violation of the Law of War.”
...........
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
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this is good, independant journalism in my opinion.....

from the same article.

Quote:
Even if Khadr did kill Sgt. Speer, he did so as a soldier, not a terrorist. There’s little doubt that Ahmed Khadr was training his sons to be terrorists — the sort of people who blow up buses and restaurants, or who wear civilian clothing as they lie in wait to detonate explosives under vehicle convoys. But what Omar Khadr did on June 27, 2002 wasn’t terrorism. It was participation in a military engagement — a fact that can’t be changed merely by slapping a label like “unlawful combatant” on him.

Moreover, it was a military engagement fought on American terms: After U.S. soldiers sealed off the village encampment housing Khadr’s cell, they prosecuted the siege with about 100 troops, some of them Special Forces, as well as Apache helicopters, F-18 Hornets and A-10 Warthogs. You can say that Khadr was fighting in an evil cause when he was captured, but you can’t say that he was preying on the defenseless.



Even if you don’t buy anything I’ve written above, Khadr’s treatment still ranks as abominable. Let us assume that Omar Khadr actually threw the grenade that killed Sgt Christopher Speer; that he did so as a cold-blooded killer, not as a soldier; and that his status as a child combatant is irrelevant — in short, that Omar Khadr is a murderer. Well then, how do we treat murderers in Western countries? Answer: We put them in jail. We don’t beat them; or move them from cell to cell every three hours; or terrify them with threats of pedophilic rape; or deny them appropriate medical care — all punishments that Khadr has endured — a litany of abuse so traumatic that, according to one piteous detail among many, he took to falling asleep at Guantanamo desperately hugging a Mickey Mouse book brought to him as a gift. In the space of six years incarceration, Khadr has endured more brutality than any ordinary jailbird would endure in 60.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:36 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I have spent today reading a lot of tough talk on the blogs about how Khadr should be “waterboarded until he stops crying” and such.
These Internet Warriors & Tough Guys(c) need to be detained for a few years without charge. See how gung-ho they are after that. My money's on them losing their voices after only a few days of screaming for their rights.

There's an unfortunate trend of judging guilt or innocence based on the blogosphere - if it makes more than two right-wing blogs, guy's guilty. If it is then cut 'n pasted from said blogs, guy's guilty as sin.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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and we wonder why muslims are becoming more militant.

that movie I watched last night about the brummie lads unlawfully held for 5 years and then released.

they were non practising muslims before their abuse, more interested in girls and skateboarding and just having fun.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
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and we wonder why muslims are becoming more militant.
Same point I made about Kdahar. If he wasn't militant and vehemently opposed to the US before he went in, chances are he will be when he comes out.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:44 AM   #13 (permalink)
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High-Calorie Diet Fattens Gitmo Inmates



SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico -- A high-calorie diet combined with life in the cell block _ almost around the clock in some cases _ is making detainees at Guantanamo Bay fat.


Meals totaling a whopping 4,200 calories per day are brought to their cells, well above the 2,000 to 3,000 calories recommended for weight maintenance by U.S. government dietary guidelines. And some inmates are eating everything on the menu.


High-Calorie Diet Fattens Gitmo Inmates - washingtonpost.com
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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These Internet Warriors & Tough Guys(c) need to be detained for a few years without charge. See how gung-ho they are after that.
Most people have the common sense to stay out of known war zones -- especially when carrying guns and bombs.

More interested in skateboards (as a means of getaway) and cars (well no shit )

My favorite war crime has been the jailhouse blowjob:

British soldiers forced a boy of 14 to carry out an act of oral sex on a fellow male prisoner in Iraq, according to shocking new allegations made about the behaviour of British troops.

The Ministry of Defence confirmed yesterday that the Royal Military Police (RMP) have launched an investigation. If the allegations are proved, it would mark a sordid low in the behaviour of British troops in Iraq, and damage further the reputation of Britain in the Middle East.

The victim, now 19, whom The Independent on Sunday has agreed to identify only as Hassan, says he was rounded up with a friend while trying to steal milk cartons from a food distribution centre. He was whipped, beaten and forced to strip naked.

British soldiers accused of sickening sex assault on Iraqi boy, 14 - Home News, UK - The Independent

***

Under what chapter of the Geneva Convention does that one fall?
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by britmaveric
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico -- A high-calorie diet combined with life in the cell block _ almost around the clock in some cases _ is making detainees at Guantanamo Bay fat.




they are allowed 5 minutes of exercise a day.

so your point is?
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:53 AM   #16 (permalink)
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British soldiers forced a boy of 14 to carry out an act of oral sex on a fellow male prisoner in Iraq, according to shocking new allegations made about the behaviour of British troops.
tex, this is not an 'our troops behave as badly as your troops thread.'

that's a given.
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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These Internet Warriors & Tough Guys(c) need to be detained for a few years without charge. See how gung-ho they are after that.
Most people have the common sense to stay out of known war zones -- especially when carrying guns and bombs.
Specious. What about guys like the one in CMN's OP? People almost literally grabbed off the streets of foreign countries and subjected to extraordinary rendition.

I like how you slip the bit about 'carrying guns and bombs' in there too. No doubt that'll become the next repeated-enough-tobecome-blanket-fact-in-all-cases thing seized upon. I would like to know however what guns and bombs Murat Kurnaz and Dilwar were carrying?
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:54 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 18-07-2008, 11:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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