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good2bhappy

^^ a bit of a pantomime?

Panda

Who says? If the US can throw out the rule book of war under the Geneva conventions they signed to, then you can bet their opponents will play by the same lack of rules.

Now lets hear the US cry babies shouting -- " but they done it first, so that makes it OK" ! Fucken wankers. Its a tough world, but if we are ever going to get some order and peace in this world we need to have global military policemen we can look up to and respect. Right now the USA is acting like a global gangster, -- they may well get the results they want in the end, but the rest of the world will see them as a slimey low down cheating mob of bastards.

Then again, supporters of Bush and the new American Century of world domination dont really give a shit what the rest of the world thinks.

Funny how when their plans fall down the Yanks always start crawling and reminiscing about all the good deeds they have done to help the rest of the world. Well, Yanks are not known for their modesty anyway.

good2bhappy

Not sure the Americans have signed up to all the conventions

Panda

Obviously brain dead with nothing meaningful to say.

Panda

That could come in handy in certain wars. Good to see them taking the high moral ground above self interest as always. A bit like carpet bombing and land mines I suppose?

I understand that nationalistic self interest is a characteristic of all countries, but when you try to hide it and disguise it as some moral crusade against evil, well that's going over the top. Most countries didn't accept the US lies justifying the attack on Iraq. Most countries don't accept the criminal activities carried out by the US government in Guantanamo Bay.

The US has become the worlds gangster rather than the worlds policeman we had hoped for.
While some in the US may feel that's something to feel proud about, the rest of the world abhours such thuggish behaviour.

lysander

And as has been said before on that thread - locking people up for 8 years without due process is wrong - just as wrong as locking them up for 6 years without due process. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Butterfly

I was just following orders is a better one IMO

Panda

Of course honesty and integrity is known world wide as the US code of conduct ....

thegent

The problem with debating issues with the american frazzled of the forum is that they seem to have all the comprehension and memory of a geriatric goldfish.

In the relevant thread upon this subject I highlighted the fact that undocumented EU illegal migrants chose incarceration in preference to returning to their own countries.The fact they could do this was a testament to the penal conditions that prevailed in the EU which were obviously such that their gambit could be sustained for such a long period. Now, one could hardly equate that to the concentration camp in Gitmo, could one unless of course one was an idiot?

Now come on, Tex, pull your socks up and get a grip. It's no good simply ignoring inconvenient truths that undermine further your untenable position. To continue with this strategy reduces you to the level of a propagandist and nobody will take you seriously.

Now, can we look forward to another contribution from the Blackgang or is his head stuck in the recent issue of S&M Backdoorsmen R'Us Vol 23?

Texpat

Yes options are good -- on that much we agree.
And Gitmo detainees are beginning to see their options unravel.
Some will go home. Some will remain in jail. For many, I suspect, the halal buffet is quite preferable to your supposed justice.

attaboy

You got that right. The food is great and as long as one of them agrees to be the cabin boy, it's all good at GITMO.

astasinim

Where do I sign up.

attaboy

Minor pawns? How did you come to that conclusion? They have been moving people in and out of GITMO. Innocent? Do you mean people who may have had a disagreemet with their neighbor who then turned them in as terrorists? It says alot about the treachery over there doesn't it? That's the kind of lies we must sort out.

And to think some people think it's fine for the US to pull out of Iraq and leave the Iraqi army to call in US air strikes for support. I can see it now; a whole family killed because three days before they haggled with a soldier over the sale of a used pickup truck. More civilian deaths blamed on the USA. That's the route Obama wishes to take us.

US troops fight in uniform. Enemy combatants don't. EC must be clearly defined. There hasn't been a clear definition and the rights of the EC and the rules by which they can be held have not been established. It's something the US government has never had to seriously consider before. They are not criminals and they are not POWs. The court system is determining the defintions and rules. That's how our system works. We are a nation of laws. Woe to those living in interesing times. They are helping to establish precident.

Policy has changed and adapted to the the times. Detainees are bringing lawsuits and if a court determines they were wronged they will be compensated. That's how it works. No one ever said democracy was streamlined and cheap.

I don't think any of us will know the value of GITMO for decades. The struggle with terrorism is going on for the rest of my lifetime. Who knows when information will be released which doesn't compromise ongoing investigations and missions? Scoff and gufaw all you want. I don't honestly know and neither do any of you.

__________________
As a kid I always thought my nickname was "attaboy" until I realized they were rooting for the dog: "Attaboy, get 'em! Get 'em!".

Texpat

There are more American experts on Teak Door than in the halls of every law school, diplomatic mission, think tank and military advisory group worldwide.

Teak Door Issues is the nexus of American consultancy.

flash

well said Tex

sabang

Well this 'American expert' thinks, even after discounting all other considerations, that Gitmo just plain hasn't been worth it. It would have been cheaper, and a good deal less controversial, to let the existing legal system handle it. It is a fact that the biggest succesful prosecution thus far has been, umm, a kid who was bin Ladens driver.

That is my opinion, which I am entitled to, and which you can of course have your own differing opinion on collectively. But I have stated my reasons for having my opinion- would it be too bold of me to ask yours? Apart from Atta saying 'we won't know for decades' all I've really been hearing is platitudes like 'the foods good' and 'Gitmo is a holiday camp'.

__________________
East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,

attaboy

The driver is the first case. And he's lucky he went first. They very well couldn't give him forty years. It wouldn't leave them any room to sentence the more important people coming up next. Kind of like handing out 9.9s early in a gymnastics competition.

This kid was trusted enough to be Bin Laden's driver. That says something about how dangerous he could be. You can bet he wasn't from Rajistan India and recruited from a taxi stall in Bangalore. He did cooperate with authorities fingering the bigger fish so I hope that is taken into consideration.

If people are asking whether the Bush administration made mistakes, I'd answer have you ever heard of the terms 'snafu" and "fubar"? In real life things don't go like on paper. Humans have a way of wandering and sticking their fingers where they shouldn't. Anyone seen The Bank Job? There's a movie that shows what happens when people get involved with an idea. Some of them were lucky to get out alive.

Butterfly

There are more delusional Americans on TeakDoor than in the halls of the UN, NATO and even the White House