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Issues There is much going on in the world and the opportunity to discuss these issues and how they affect your world is always relevant. Your opinion is important and though we might not solve the problems confronting society, we just might open someones eyes. What is your opinion?

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Old 18-07-2008, 06:30 PM   #141 (permalink)
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It should be quite obvious that Guantanamo Bay is little more than an interrogation centre where "suspected" terrorists can be held for years if not indefinitely and be subjected to ongoing psychological torture in an effort to break them down and obtain confessions and information. Solitary confinement, blaring music, bright lights 24/7, sleep deprivation and regular body searches etc may not constitute the us legal definition of torture. However when such things are carried on for years on end day in and day out with no hope of ever ceasing and no one able to help, such inhumane treatment does in fact become a very severe form of psychological torture.

Unfortunately, for the victims many of those imprisoned by the US as suspected terrorists were detained for years before being released without charge after it was found they were of no value to the US military.
And unfortunately for the US military, the evidence gained via such methods of psychological torture would not be accepted in a normal court of the USA.

These farcical military tribunals are simply the end game re what to do with these detainees once it has been deemed they have given up all the information they have. The US military could not convict these detainees (or at least the vast majority of them) in a normal court. So they have arranged their own version of a justice system with their own biast rules to ensure they gain convictions and justify their own criminal actions.
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:32 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda
It should be quite obvious
Should being the key word...
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:37 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat View Post
What other nation on the planet would have exhibited such benevolence as to resist killing him outright, on the spot?

probably none.

What a remarkable act of kindness.
And --> the --> posts --> are --> shifted --> once --> more.



Sheesh, and I thought Boon Mee was bad for this kinda thing!
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:37 PM   #144 (permalink)
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We'll see if you're singing the same tune after Tower of London is leveled, or Houses of Parliament, or; gee I can't think of any landmark in little Auckland, sorry.

I suspect once that happens and thousands upon thousands of your countrymen die in a fireball, that you might just be a bit more expansive on your government's tactics in handling terror suspects.
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:39 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat View Post
What other nation on the planet would have exhibited such benevolence as to resist killing him outright, on the spot?

probably none.

What a remarkable act of kindness.
Oh, you are right.

How could I have been so blind?

All hail the great benevolent Empire!
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:43 PM   #146 (permalink)
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^^ Two wrongs dont make a right. The Uk suffered plentry of deaths at the hands of the IRA (who were funded by many New Yorkers). We never invaded their country over it though, nor did we illegally imprison suspects.
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:43 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee View Post
We'll see if you're singing the same tune after Tower of London is leveled, or Houses of Parliament, or; gee I can't think of any landmark in little Auckland, sorry.

I suspect once that happens and thousands upon thousands of your countrymen die in a fireball, that you might just be a bit more expansive on your government's tactics in handling terror suspects.
Emotive argument and the desire for nationalistic revenge should not over rule the principles of justice for "suspected" terrorists or anyone else for that matter in a civilized society.
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:44 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spin View Post
^^ Two wrongs dont make a right. The Uk suffered plentry of deaths at the hands of the IRA (who were funded by many New Yorkers). We never invaded their country over it though, nor did we illegally imprison suspects.
Do you really think that dog will hunt?

I think a lot of Northern Irish to this day might disagree with you.
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:46 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda
Emotive argument and the desire for nationalistic revenge should not over rule the principles of justice for "suspected" terrorists or anyone else for that matter in a civilized society.
Yes, you have a point, but don't confuse the different levels of protections offered for citizens of your country versus citizens of a combatant nation or rogue individuals. There are different levels of legal due process and not everyone is accorded the full faith and credit of your country's protections in such a conflict.
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:48 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee View Post
We'll see if you're singing the same tune after Tower of London is leveled, or Houses of Parliament, or; gee I can't think of any landmark in little Auckland, sorry.

I suspect once that happens and thousands upon thousands of your countrymen die in a fireball, that you might just be a bit more expansive on your government's tactics in handling terror suspects.
Emotive argument and the desire for nationalistic revenge should not over rule the principles of justice for "suspected" terrorists or anyone else for that matter in a civilized society.
For the life of me I can't fathom why some posters think that chinthee's arrogant.

Anyways, you're 100% correct there Panda. There's no moral high-ground to be taken in claiming eye-for-an-eye justice (Old Testament Style!).

If only for the fact that 2,974 people tragically lost their lives in the 9/11 attacks. How many more thousands have died in Iraq; a country that had nothing to do with the attacks of that day? How many more will die?
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:49 PM   #151 (permalink)
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^Good thing Ant has me on ignore. Can't imagine for the life of me how caustic he would be if he could read my posts.
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:50 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntRobertson
How many more thousands have died in Iraq; a country that had nothing to do with the attacks of that day?
Yes, but they had weapons of mass destruction....
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:51 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spin
We never invaded their country over it though, nor did we illegally imprison suspects.
Sorry that isn't quite true, Operation Demetrius or Internment ran in Northern Ireland from 1971 till 1975, it is widely known that this internment increased terrorist activity and boosted membership of terrorist groups
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:51 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntRobertson
How many more thousands have died in Iraq; a country that had nothing to do with the attacks of that day?
Yes, but they had weapons of mass destruction....
... Capable of imminent deployment!
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:52 PM   #155 (permalink)
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KW, more circular arguments. Many of us think Iraq was a mistake, myself included. But, this discussion is about the Gitmo detainees. Try to stay focused. Remember, I didn't bring Ozzies into the discussion, as I believe they are pretty smart and practical about the whole thing.
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Old 18-07-2008, 06:58 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee
Many of us think Iraq was a mistake, myself included.
A mistake to kill so many innocents? Or a mistake to put US lives at risk?
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Old 18-07-2008, 07:00 PM   #157 (permalink)
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^Come on, don't bait me. I'm agreeing with you, and I'm hoping for Obama & his party in Congress to change things. But, this does not mean immediate withdrawal as that would be to descend to chaos. But, a timed withdrawal with conditions is intelligent.
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Old 18-07-2008, 07:11 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spin View Post
^^ Two wrongs dont make a right. The Uk suffered plentry of deaths at the hands of the IRA (who were funded by many New Yorkers). We never invaded their country over it though, nor did we illegally imprison suspects.
And besides, let's be realistic. Even Northern Irish are worth more than Muslim ragheads on their worst day. And you know this is true, as does everyone else on this forum, and you can spout it's racist but you know it's true and lies deep in the heart of every white UK citizen.
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Old 18-07-2008, 07:16 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee
^Come on, don't bait me. I'm agreeing with you, a
yeah ok....hang on a second, what did you write here...?



Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee
Even Northern Irish are worth more than Muslim ragheads on their worst day. And you know this is true, as does everyone else on this forum, and you can spout it's racist but you know it's true and lies deep in the heart of every white UK citizen.
nope. sorry dont agree.
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Old 18-07-2008, 07:18 PM   #160 (permalink)
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