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Issues There is much going on in the world and the opportunity to discuss these issues and how they affect your world is always relevant. Your opinion is important and though we might not solve the problems confronting society, we just might open someones eyes. What is your opinion?

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Old 14-07-2008, 01:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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But hey hang on! Can't we take it as a "freedom of expression". I mean doesn't she have the right to wear what she deems fit for her? Or has she been rejected on the grounds that she really is a "radical nutjob"?
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Old 14-07-2008, 01:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I do blame the French authorities as well for allowing her to stay there since 2000. They should have chucked her out back then.
How might they have know she wouldn't change?

Insofar as I'm a long term resident of Thailand, I consider myself in the same class.
I shop in Thai stores, eat at Thai restaurants and live in a Thai neighborhood. There isn't another farang within 8 kilometers of me. While I know this may not be the case with all farangs in Thailand, we generally make an effort to be among them (by choice or by necessity).

The same is not the case for many (at least some) immigrants to the west. Koreans in Los Angeles are particularly clannish. You can drive into a neighborhood and not see a sign in English for several miles.

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The Irish, Italians and Germans set up their own communities too. They did as people naturally tend to do; congregate with their own kind. Sections of New York are famous for this and people still indentify themselves (and are indentified by others) as Irish-American, Italian-American and so forth.
Yes they set up communities, but not to the exclusion of other residents of the city.
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Old 14-07-2008, 01:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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That photo must be getting CMN very excited.
i was married to a muslim in Turkey.

I used to get her to dress up in a scarf and nothing else.
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Old 14-07-2008, 01:10 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The Irish, Italians and Germans set up their own communities too. They did as people naturally tend to do; congregate with their own kind. Sections of New York are famous for this and people still indentify themselves (and are indentified by others) as Irish-American, Italian-American and so forth.
Yes they set up communities, but not to the exclusion of other residents of the city.
Who is being excluded? It's not like there's barriers around the Korean areas is there.

They don't call 'Little Italy', well, Little Italy for nothing. Same goes for Chinatown etc. It's human nature that people congregate with those most similar to themselves.

It's funny that new immigrants are expected to do overnight what took the first immigrants generations to do (and we're still seeing vestiges of it now).
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Old 14-07-2008, 01:10 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The more we bend our laws to accommodate them, it seems, the more they demand. When the Oirish and Eyetalians and Yerumans came to America 150 years ago, it was assimilate or wither-on-the-vine.

Today immigrants set up their own communities with no intent of assimilation whatsoever. They only fall into line when the law demands it and even then contest every judgment. IMO, they're only immigrants in the geographic sense.
The Irish, Italians and Germans set up their own communities too. They did as people naturally tend to do; congregate with their own kind. Sections of New York are famous for this and people still identify themselves (and are indentified by others) as Irish-American, Italian-American and so forth.

True, and they brought a wealth of ideas and values to their adopted country - same goes for Aus, SA, Germany, NZ, Israel etc . . .

In this context, however, it was easier for them to assimilate, something that is quite different with other groups of recent migrants. No-one expects them to assimilate immediately but the pre-requisites are simply not there . . . one just has to look at the Middle-Eastern community in Sydney to see that . . . two of the main features are lacking: intermingling and intermarriage with 'locals'
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Old 14-07-2008, 01:13 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm not saying it's bad to have immigrants. Quite the opposite.
I'm suggesting it's not to anyone's benefit to have these fortresses where the two sides rarely interact.

And yes, that's how I would describe them. Very, very little interaction. Geographic immigrants.
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Old 14-07-2008, 01:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I'm not saying it's bad to have immigrants. Quite the opposite.
I'm suggesting it's not to anyone's benefit to have these fortresses where the two sides rarely interact.

And yes, that's how I would describe them. Very, very little interaction. Geographic immigrants.
I agree. All I'm saying is that it's fundamentally no different from what occured with the 'first wave' of immigrants. Given time these sort of barriers are broken down by an almost natural process; generation by generation there's more interaction. Language barriers go as the children of immigrants are educated together, their children even moreso (for just one example).
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Old 14-07-2008, 01:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
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They go to Korean schools, Korean hospitals, Korean churches (yes they're usually Christian), read Korean newspapers ...

The first wave didn't have any of these -- and they assimilated. Not without a great struggle, but they assimilated. Today they don't have to assimilate if they chose not to. And many never do. Retaining your culture is a good thing. Refusing to become part of the culture where you've chosen to immigrate, is not.

French immigration authorities agree with me. I hope someday US immigration authorities might.
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Old 14-07-2008, 01:31 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm not saying it's bad to have immigrants. Quite the opposite.
I'm suggesting it's not to anyone's benefit to have these fortresses where the two sides rarely interact.

And yes, that's how I would describe them. Very, very little interaction. Geographic immigrants.
I agree. All I'm saying is that it's fundamentally no different from what occured with the 'first wave' of immigrants. Given time these sort of barriers are broken down by an almost natural process; generation by generation there's more interaction. Language barriers go as the children of immigrants are educated together, their children even moreso (for just one example).

The problem we are having in London now is the lack of assimilation there are schools that are 90% Black schools that are 90% Asian and schools that have always been 100% Jewish.

I do not know if it is because of Racial tension and differing communities moving into their own Ghettos, therefore not mixing and causing more racial tension. Or it may be because of sheer weight of numbers and new communities setting up in the cheaper areas.

The first wave of Polish workers that came in 4 years ago learned English, worked here for a few years and then took money home to build houses. The present wave of "New Europeans" seem much more isolationist.
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Old 14-07-2008, 02:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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They go to Korean schools, Korean hospitals, Korean churches (yes they're usually Christian), read Korean newspapers ...

The first wave didn't have any of these -- and they assimilated.
Italian immigrants built their own chruches and schools because they weren't accepted in others.

Where are these Korean schools you're referring to?
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Old 14-07-2008, 04:55 PM   #31 (permalink)
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France has a particular problem because of it's colonial past in North Africa.
What she does in private should be her own concern but publically she should conform to the norms of the state.
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Old 14-07-2008, 04:56 PM   #32 (permalink)
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^ Whatever happened to the Western "freedom of expression" concept, G2b?
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Old 14-07-2008, 04:59 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Sadly that seems to be dying!
In my opinion it is like Sikhs not needing to wear crash helmets.
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Old 14-07-2008, 05:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Going into Singapore a few weeks back a woman in front of me was asked to lift her veil by the female Immigration officer . . . the veiled one was reluctant and kept looking back at her husband in obvious fear (of what I don't know) and he looked none-too happy.
Eventually she was told that either she lifts the veil or she will be refused entry
. . . she lifted . . . and was let in.
Shocking!!! You mean she expected to be admitted to the country without even verifying who she was?

Do immigration officers in all countries make Muslim women show their faces for identification?

Was she visually identified when she left her country??
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Old 14-07-2008, 05:06 PM   #35 (permalink)
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One could use rhetinal scans.
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Old 14-07-2008, 05:06 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Sadly that seems to be dying!
In my opinion it is like Sikhs not needing to wear crash helmets.
LOL! Can't green you as of now. Gotta reload.
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Old 14-07-2008, 05:08 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by panama hat View Post

Going into Singapore a few weeks back a woman in front of me was asked to lift her veil by the female Immigration officer . . . the veiled one was reluctant and kept looking back at her husband in obvious fear (of what I don't know) and he looked none-too happy.
Eventually she was told that either she lifts the veil or she will be refused entry
. . . she lifted . . . and was let in.
Shocking!!! You mean she expected to be admitted to the country without even verifying who she was?

Do immigration officers in all countries make Muslim women show their faces for identification?

Was she visually identified when she left her country??
I have witnessed veiled women being thoroughly searched at Dubai airport. They let them do their job without any resistance.
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Old 14-07-2008, 06:00 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
The Irish, Italians and Germans set up their own communities too. They did as people naturally tend to do; congregate with their own kind. Sections of New York are famous for this and people still identify themselves (and are indentified by others) as Irish-American, Italian-American and so forth.
Part is correct and part is bullshit,, the only ones that add on XXX-American is the darkies as African-American, you call most others xxxx-American and get a whack in the chops, the rest might say Yea I am a WOP but you just suppose American as he knows he is so why have to say it.
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Old 14-07-2008, 06:34 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The Irish, Italians and Germans set up their own communities too. They did as people naturally tend to do; congregate with their own kind. Sections of New York are famous for this and people still identify themselves (and are indentified by others) as Irish-American, Italian-American and so forth.
Part is correct and part is bullshit,, the only ones that add on XXX-Amer