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bkkandrew · 21-07-2008, 12:58 PM

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

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Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Taking the average increase in production to 2004, the 2007 figure respresents a 4.3% shortfall, not 2%. Maths not your strong point I guess.

ok let's assume it's 4%, not 2%, it's still not enough to justify a 200% increase

so you admit being 100% out on your maths then. Good, thats a start. Hopefully soon you will admit being 100% wrong on most other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

First, demand for oil is price elastic in the long term, not in the short term, as it takes time to adjust oil consumption habits.

It is not possible to state this, as for a large part, new technology is required for the conversion to take place. This technology has yet to be invented, implimented or funded.

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

Ok let's skip that argument for a second

Thought you would.

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

If price are elastic, it means that any increase in price, no matter small, will result in the decrease in quantity demanded. Since the Demand curve is sloping downward (remember econ 101), that small increase in price will result in a large decrease in the quantity demanded (definition of Demand price elasticity). As we could see, price wasn't elastic in the short term as consumption was still strong despite the rising oil price. Not now however, consumers have started to adjust their habits, companies reduce their output, demand for oil decrease.

Arse about ladyboy tit here Butterfly.

On this thread, people have been referring to the fact that the price is elastic relating to oil in the short term, as oil and its byproducts are essential to life. Any disposable income by both individuals or companies will be used to fund any price increase, up to the point when disposable income is reduced to zero. This is the same as the price elasticity of food. Once the price goes beyond the level that can be afforded by total disposable income individuals riot (as has been happening) and companies collapse in part or whole, see airlines going bankrupt, or reducing their operations.

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

Now this contradicts completely your argument that the massive elasticity was the reason behind the increase in price. This is not logically possible and show your complete ignorance on the subject and how you do not understand basic economic principles. I suggest you google price elastic of demand and see by yourself if you don't believe me. Of course if you were mentioning price elasticity of supply, then your argument would be even more wrong. A massive price elasticity of supply would mean that only demand determines output and price, and since it would be very elastic (it's supply remember, not demand) it would have no effect on price, or only a very marginal effect on price. A very small increase in price, would bring a massive increase in output (definition of price elasticity of supply).

The glaring omission from your ramble is that since 2004 it has been clear that no further output is possible. This is the whole point of the matter. According to the most basic supply and demand arguments, supply increases when demand increases to take advantage of the resultant increasing price. All very well for making widgets, but if there is an actual constraint on production (e.g. the stuff isn't there to be pumped), then the only this that bring back supply/demand equilibrium is ever higher price until the demand has been suppressed. The actual question is; what price does oil have to be to suppress demand to 2004 levels?

Butterfly · 21-07-2008, 01:30 PM

^ would you care to answer the question instead of jumping around like a clueless monkey ? again you failed to address the issues or my arguments that oil demand is inelastic because it's a necessity. I think you are confusing elasticity and inelasticity. If oil is not fully available, then the price elasticity of supply is 0, therefore the supply curve is vertical and completely INELASTIC. Only changes in demand determines the price of oil, as quantity can't change or supply is very limited.

I think I have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that you are a clueless monkey trying to be right at all costs. You haven't demonstrated one bit any of your arguments, except hurling half truth, and flawed opinions. You have no arguments or logic except the usual crap you hear on the news or daytrader blogs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

people have been referring to the fact that the price is elastic relating to oil in the short term, as oil and its byproducts are essential to life

People ? what people ? blogs ? clueless news report ? please enlighten me ?

Try to continue this debate in an educated manner, with your own words, not news clip or half truth you are cutting and pasting without understanding their meaning.

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Originally Posted by bkkandrew

so you admit being 100% out on your maths then. Good, thats a start. Hopefully soon you will admit being 100% wrong on most other things.

Not I wasn't. Just that your number wasn't significant enough to change my argument. You can't be that stupid or clueless. Or did I stroke a nerve again ?

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Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Arse about ladyboy tit here Butterfly.

Now you can go back drinking as this seems to be the only thing you seem to be good for,

Butterfly · 21-07-2008, 01:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

Actually, there is no certainty in this (small increase in price leading to large decrease in demand), as it all depends on the slope of the curve. I believe one could argue more convincingly that (in the short term) large increases in the price of oil has little effect on demand. Recent history seem to confirm this.

yes at least in the short term, as I mentioned previously, there is inelasticity, but in the long run, the price elasticity of demand is there. Likewise, price elasticity of demand could be higher for higher price in the short term. This is definitely the case now, businesses are adjusting their output, airlines changing routes etc... as the price has become too high to not adjust the quantity demanded.

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Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

For most of us, oil (or energy) is a necessity, not a luxury we can easily do without. Just like basic food, most people are willing to pay quite a bit more to ensure they have enough when supply dwindles. When supply is plentiful, we shop around for the best bargain, and prices drop as a result.

They will pay more until a certain point. When the price is too high, the price elasticity of Demand will be different, and this is when things start to change.

bkkandrew · 21-07-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ would you care to answer the question instead of jumping around like a clueless monkey ? again you failed to address the issues or my arguments that oil demand is inelastic because it's a necessity. I think you are confusing elasticity and inelasticity. If oil is not fully available, then the price elasticity of supply is 0, therefore the supply curve is vertical and completely INELASTIC. Only changes in demand determines the price of oil, as quantity can't change or supply is very limited.

Read my post again. Any words you are stuck on, ask.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I think I have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that you are a clueless monkey trying to be right at all costs. You haven't demonstrated one bit any of your arguments, except hurling half truth, and flawed opinions. You have no arguments or logic except the usual crap you hear on the news or daytrader blogs.

Being that I am the only one that has produced actual data, backed by citations, on this thread, most reasonable people would consider the reverse to be true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

people have been referring to the fact that the price is elastic relating to oil in the short term, as oil and its byproducts are essential to life

People ? what people ? blogs ? clueless news report ? please enlighten me ?

Er, people on this thread:

http://teakdoor.com/issues/31530-oil...tml#post697807 (Oil Tumbles as Signs of Slowing Economy Spur Commodity Selling)

http://teakdoor.com/issues/31530-oil...tml#post696954 (Oil Tumbles as Signs of Slowing Economy Spur Commodity Selling)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

so you admit being 100% out on your maths then. Good, thats a start. Hopefully soon you will admit being 100% wrong on most other things.

Not I wasn't. Just that your number wasn't significant enough to change my argument. You can't be that stupid or clueless. Or did I stroke a nerve again ?

Changed your mind again? so now stating 2% when the answer was 4% is not 100% out?

Butterfly · 21-07-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Read my post again. Any words you are stuck on, ask.

yes please explain again how the demand for oil is elastic and how it is leading to higher price. That is fucking priceless. You should get a Nobel prize for revolutionizing the world of Economics.

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Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Er, people on this thread:

Since when TD is an economic think tank full of economic experts ? it's a fucking forum where people share their opinions and ideas. It's not the Bible or the Gospels. Jesus, you are a bigger idiot than I thought.

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Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Being that I am the only one that has produced actual data, backed by citations, on this thread, most reasonable people would consider the reverse to be true.

Data doesn't tell the full story, and can be interpreted both ways. Citations from blogs or loonies doesn't count.

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Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Changed your mind again? so now stating 2% when the answer was 4% is not 100% out?

Now you are getting desperate,

bkkandrew · 21-07-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Er, people on this thread:

Since when TD is an economic think tank full of economic experts ? it's a fucking forum where people share their opinions and ideas. It's not the Bible or the Gospels. Jesus, you are a bigger idiot than I thought.

But this thread is the one where the discussion is taking place. Well it is with the rest of us; with you, who knows?

bkkandrew · 21-07-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Being that I am the only one that has produced actual data, backed by citations, on this thread, most reasonable people would consider the reverse to be true.

Data doesn't tell the full story, and can be interpreted both ways. Citations from blogs or loonies doesn't count.

The (only) citations I have given on this thread are from the following:

The People Daily Newspaper
The Hong Kong Economic and Information Agency
The Beijing Review
China Car Times
The Energy Information Administration of the US Government

Could you please point out which ones are blogs or, indeed, loonies...

bkkandrew · 21-07-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Read my post again. Any words you are stuck on, ask.

yes please explain again how the demand for oil is elastic and how it is leading to higher price. That is fucking priceless. You should get a Nobel prize for revolutionizing the world of Economics.

It isn't, I have never stated that it is. That is why I invited you to read my post again, with help, if necessary.

bkkandrew · 21-07-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Changed your mind again? so now stating 2% when the answer was 4% is not 100% out?

Now you are getting desperate,

No, I am just causing you further embarrassment by showing how utterly wrong you are, even on basic maths.

Whiteshiva · 21-07-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Er, people on this thread:

Since when TD is an economic think tank full of economic experts ? it's a fucking forum where people share their opinions and ideas. It's not the Bible or the Gospels. Jesus, you are a bigger idiot than I thought.

But this thread is the one where the discussion is taking place. Well it is with the rest of us; with you, who knows?

Besides, some of the people posting here actually know what they are talking about.......

Butterfly · 21-07-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

yes please explain again how the demand for oil is elastic and how it is leading to higher price.

It isn't, I have never stated that it is. That is why I invited you to read my post again, with help, if necessary.

master of denial, see below. Tell me again what you are doing in RL ? teaching English ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

given massive price elasticity (obvious to most, but of course, not you), this can quite easliy produce price rises of 1000's of percent.

bkkandrew · 21-07-2008, 03:03 PM

^Price elasticity, not demand elasticity. Spot the difference?

No, I do not teach English, but you could do with some lessons...

Butterfly · 21-07-2008, 03:09 PM

^ Econ 101 ? google it

Price elasticity is always linked to either Demand or Supply, you can't have it alone, as price is the intersection of supply and demand. Get it ? it's going to be really hard for you to get out of that one

Ok let me explain it from the beginning: there was a big bang, massive balls of fire spreading in the vaccum of space, then stars were formed ...

You are hopeless,

Butterfly · 21-07-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

No, I do not teach English

well maybe you should, there is a hopeful career waiting for you

bkkandrew · 21-07-2008, 03:16 PM

^^How difficult is it for you to understand this excerpt from my post?

Quote:

On this thread, people have been referring to the fact that the price is elastic relating to oil in the short term, as oil and its byproducts are essential to life. Any disposable income by both individuals or companies will be used to fund any price increase, up to the point when disposable income is reduced to zero. This is the same as the price elasticity of food. Once the price goes beyond the level that can be afforded by total disposable income individuals riot (as has been happening) and companies collapse in part or whole, see airlines going bankrupt, or reducing their operations.

bkkandrew · 21-07-2008, 03:18 PM

Oh and we are all still waiting for your assessment of which of my citations are loonies...

21-07-2008, 03:03 PM	#152 (permalink)
bkkandrew Clingin' on... Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BKK Posts: 4,003	^Price elasticity, not demand elasticity. Spot the difference? No, I do not teach English, but you could do with some lessons...

21-07-2008, 03:09 PM	#153 (permalink)
Butterfly Suspended Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,641	^ Econ 101 ? google it Price elasticity is always linked to either Demand or Supply, you can't have it alone, as price is the intersection of supply and demand. Get it ? it's going to be really hard for you to get out of that one Ok let me explain it from the beginning: there was a big bang, massive balls of fire spreading in the vaccum of space, then stars were formed ... You are hopeless,

21-07-2008, 03:18 PM	#156 (permalink)
bkkandrew Clingin' on... Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BKK Posts: 4,003	Oh and we are all still waiting for your assessment of which of my citations are loonies...