The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

peterpan · 30-06-2008, 03:13 PM

More stupidity from the masters of stupidity

Quote:

Grandfather with 'For Sale' sign in car window given £100 fine for running street business

By Charlotte Gill
Last updated at 3:54 AM on 30th June 2008

A car owner who put a for-sale note on his Ford Escort soon found another sign on the window - a £100 penalty ticket.
Victor Abrahams was accused of 'offering goods for sale in a parking place'.
When the 67-year-old grandfather called the council, he was told the offence had been introduced a year ago and had been advertised in the local paper.
But as he does not live in the North London borough of Barnet, he says he had no idea that new rules had been brought in.

Victor Abraham, with the Ford he was hoping to sell, before being told he had acted 'illegally'

'I don't live in the area but I've had my office here for the last 25 years and I've never heard of anything like it,' Mr Abrahams said yesterday.
'I've got a tax disc, I've got insurance, I was parked legally but I was penalised for advertising my car for sale.

The car-sale notice was swiftly joined by another sticker - a fixed penalty notice

'Lots of people do it so I can't believe it can be an offence. And why is the for-sale sign in my car window any different from a delivery van with the name and phone number of the company on the side? Or why is it different from a driving instructor's car that has the name and details of the driving school on the side? Surely if I'm offering goods for sale, so are they.'
Mr Abrahams, a property manager from Brent, North London, is retired but still works a few hours each day in Finchley. He decided to sell his R-registered Escort after he was offered a newer Saab by a friend. A month ago he put a printed A4 sign in the car reading: 'Ford Escort Ghia Cabriolet, fully loaded, very low mileage, one owner' with his mobile number at the bottom. The asking price was £2,995, although this was not on the notice.
Last Tuesday, having parked in a side street near his office, he returned to find the penalty ticket. He wrote to Barnet Council spelling out his objections that day and called two days later to confirm it had received his letter.
'They told me that the new rule had come in about a year ago and it had been advertised in the local paper,' he said. 'But I only work in Barnet, I don't live there so I hadn't seen the notice. What happens to all the other people like me who don't live in the area and don't know about it either? Is everyone going to get a ticket?'
Mr Abrahams is now selling his car through a garage. He is waiting to hear the result of his complaint before deciding whether to pay the fine.
Barnet council said the rule was introduced to keep parking space free for residents. A spokesman said: 'New parking contravention codes were introduced on April 4, 2007.
'A new code was introduced with the description of "using a vehicle in a parking place in connection with the sale or offering for sale or exposing for sale the goods when prohibited".
'The council's position is currently that we do not encourage or support trading from the public highway, including offering vehicles for sale. The council is undertaking a comprehensive review of this policy and will make a decision as to its viability after all of the options available to support our corporate priorities have been investigated.'

Ivor Biggun · 30-06-2008, 08:47 PM

This article is correct in English law. It is illegal to advertise the sale of a motor vehicle whilst parked on the highway. This law was brought out to stop car dealers with little space from using the road to sell their wares. I used to be an Highways Inspector and enforced this rule a couple of times.

Agent_Smith · 01-07-2008, 10:57 AM

Geez, the U.K. has become one big H.O.A. Forgive my ignorance but does Britain have something similar to the American First Amendment?

Morden · 01-07-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent_Smith

Geez, the U.K. has become one big H.O.A. Forgive my ignorance but does Britain have something similar to the American First Amendment?

Britain does not even have a written constitution.

Ivor Biggun · 01-07-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent_Smith

Forgive my ignorance but does Britain have something similar to the American First Amendment?

Forgive my ignorance but explain the first amendment.

Agent_Smith · 01-07-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

Forgive my ignorance but explain the first amendment.

First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects freedom of speech (expression) among other things. Generally applied to political speech but can be used for commercial speech in many cases. Such as placing "for sale" signs on your private property.

First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ivor Biggun · 01-07-2008, 08:06 PM

Yes you can put a for sale sign on your property but you cannot place a for sale sign on the highway without first getting local goverment permission, in writing. The guy who was fined for advertising is car for sale:- I believe the story isn't completely honest in that I never knew anyone to be prosecuted for a first time offence. What usually happens is that the person will first get a verbal warning. If that fails then he'll get a written warning. Failing to act within the time limit specified then he will be prosecuted. I believe this man opted to ignor the warnings. Upon being fined he then went and tried to make it look as if he is the victim and not thje offender.
PS. It's also illegal to repair a vehicle on the highway other than for the purpose of making it mobile so as to get it off the road. It is also illegal to park a car on the highway and is only sanctioned by the concession of the police. This is fact.
Sorry I forgot to mention. These laws are usually acted upon only when a complaint is received. Local government are obligated to act on receiving one. Failing to act on a complaint can have serious repocussions in the event of say an accident.

William · 01-07-2008, 08:09 PM

^it is also legal to piss behing the left wheel of a car if there is no open public toilet within 1 square mile of you.

The UK has some strange laws

Agent_Smith · 02-07-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

but you cannot place a for sale sign on the highway

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterpan

I was parked legally but I was penalised for advertising my car for sale.

This what I don't get. It was in his parking space, not on the highway.

cujo · 02-07-2008, 12:03 PM

^
I think you'll find it was a public parking spot on the street.

Ivor Biggun · 02-07-2008, 03:32 PM

I believe the laws were brought in to stop private sellers from selling multiple cars outside their homes to the annoyance of the neighbours who couldn't park.

Agent_Smith · 03-07-2008, 01:44 AM

Throwing the baby out with the bath water. Dumb laws.

cujo · 04-07-2008, 01:06 PM

Here's a good idea.

Quote:

Sharia law SHOULD be used in Britain, says UK's top judge

By Steve Doughty
Last updated at 2:12 AM on 04th July 2008

Explosive: The Lord Chief Justice's endorsement of Sharia law has already created huge controversy

The most senior judge in England yesterday gave his blessing to the use of sharia law to resolve disputes among Muslims.
Lord Chief Justice Lord Phillips said that Islamic legal principles could be employed to deal with family and marital arguments and to regulate finance.
He declared: 'Those entering into a contractual agreement can agree that the agreement shall be governed by a law other than English law.'
In his speech at an East London mosque, Lord Phillips signalled approval of sharia principles as long as punishments - and divorce rulings - complied with the law of the land.
But his remarks, which back the informal sharia courts operated by numerous mosques, provoked a barrage of criticism.
Lawyers warned that family and marital disputes settled by sharia could disadvantage women or the vulnerable.
Tories said that legal equality must be respected and that rulings incompatible with English law should never be enforceable.
Lord Phillips spoke five months after Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams suggested Islamic law could govern marital law, financial transactions and arbitration in disputes.
The Lord Chief Justice said yesterday of the Archbishop's views: 'It was not very radical to advocate embracing sharia law in the context of family disputes'.
He added there is 'widespread misunderstanding as to the nature of sharia law'.
The Sharia Council of Britain: (from right to left) Dr Suhaib Hasan, Maulana Abu Sayeed and Mr Mufti Barabatullah preside over marriage cases at their headquarters earlier this year
Under fire: The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams. His comments on Sharia sparked a political storm
Lord Phillips said: 'Those who are in dispute are free to subject it to mediation or to agree that it shall be resolved by a chosen arbitrator. There is no reason why principles of sharia law or any other religious code should not be the basis for mediation or other forms of dispute resolution.'
Lord Phillips said that any sanctions must be 'drawn from the laws of England and Wales'. Severe physical punishment - he mentioned stoning, flogging or amputating hands - is 'out of the question' in Britain, he added.
Lord Phillips' speech brought protests from lawyers who fear women could be disadvantaged in supposedly voluntary sharia deals.
Barrister and human rights specialist John Cooper said: 'There should be one law by which everyone is held to account.
'Well-crafted laws in this country, drawn up to protect both parties including the weak and vulnerable party in matrimonial break-ups, could be compromised.'
Resolution, the organisation of family law solicitors, said people should govern their lives in accordance with religious principles 'provided that those beliefs and traditions do not contradict the fundamental principle of equality on which Britain's laws are based.'
Spokesman Teresa Richardson said religious law 'must be used to find solutions which are consistent with the basic principles of family law in this country and people must always have redress to the civil courts where they so choose.'

Robert Whelan, of the Civitas think tank, said: 'Everybody is governed by English law and it is not possible to sign away your legal rights. That is why guarantees on consumer products always have to tell customers their statutory rights are not affected. 'There is not much doubt that in traditional Islamic communities women do not enjoy the freedoms that they have had for 100 years or more in Britain.

Shadow Home Secretary Dominic Grieve said: 'Mediation verdicts which are incompatible with our own legal principles should never be enforceable. One of the key aspects of our free society is equality. This should be understood and respected by all.'
The Ministry of Justice said: 'English law takes precedence over any other legal system. The Government has no intention of changing this position. Alongside this, it is possible to resolve civil law dispute by other systems.'

Sharia law SHOULD be used in Britain, says UK's top judge | Mail Online

cujo · 04-07-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

British girls as young as 14 are being trafficked for sex within the UK

Targets: British-born girls as young as 14 are being trafficked for sex within the UK (file picture)

British girls as young as 12 are being forced into prostitution by migrants in a new crime of 'internal' people trafficking.

Children from ordinary families are groomed by older men posing as boyfriends before being pimped around the UK to have sex up to 20 times a night.
They are raped and often drugged, according to police.
Officers have identified 'syndicates of Iraqi men throughout the UK' behind the exploitation.

A Government report said 'internal trafficking' was an 'emerging issue' and it should no longer be assumed young victims of sex exploitation were smuggled from abroad.

A UK Human Trafficking Centre intelligence report says girls as young as 12 are taken from town to town and controlled with threats and assault.

In one operation, 32 victims were identified in the Sheffield area alone. All were aged 12 to 15 and had been raped.
In another study, police say girls 'are given to a life of exploitation, waking up in anonymous towns, unable to contact family and with no way out'.
Figures released at the end of a six-month crackdown on people traffickers showed 167 victims were rescued across Britain and Ireland and 528 suspected traffickers were arrested.
It included 13 children aged between 14 and 17 who were rescued from sexual exploitation and two children who were under forced labour.
Home Office minister Vernon Coaker said it was difficult to establish the scale of the problem with internal trafficking.
'It is something that increasingly people are raising and we are trying to get a better understanding of what exactly is taking place,' he said.
'It is difficult for us to determine what the size of that problem is but it's something we are aware of and we have concerns about.'
The minister said it tended to involve older men grooming younger women and girls by first appearing to be a friend or boyfriend.
He said the officers had adopted the term 'lover boy' to denote the use of such techniques.
'There is no evidence that this involves children who have gone missing from care,' the minister went on. It is people living in an area and people groom them, get their trust and then betray that trust.'
Gloucestershire Chief Constable Dr Tim Brain, who coordinated the major trafficking crackdown known as Operation Pentameter Two, said it had revealed a large number of brothels in apparently ordinary suburban locations.
Out of more than 800 premises visited by this campaign, nearly 600 were residential and 157 were massage parlours, saunas and nail bars, which are the more traditional 'front' for brothels.
'It is impossible to say at this stage whether this is a shift in behaviour,' Dr Brain said.
It is likely that in future police investigations will have to consider all kinds of premises.
'In some of the cases the neighbours who live nearby have not actually suspected any kind of unusual activity.'
Latest estimates by police are that there may be as many 18,000 trafficked victims that are forced to work as prostitutes, Dr Brain went on.
The projections varied considerably and could be between 6,000 and 18,000, he added.
So far Operation Pentameter Two has led to 24 convictions for a range of offences.
The first phase of Pentameter in 2006 rescued 88 victims and made 232 arrests.
Dr Brain said: 'The increase in arrests is good news in terms of police and partner agency effectiveness but it does mean that we still have an insidious problem in the heart of our society.'
Mr Coaker announced that the Government plans to grant a 45-day period of grace to victims of human trafficking after their rescue, even if they are in the country illegally.
The Home Office had already pledged to ratify a European agreement to give a period of 30 days.

British girls as young as 14 are being trafficked for sex within the UK| News | This is London

bkkandrew · 04-07-2008, 02:17 PM

National Audit Office rejects Treasury accounts

Dramatic collapse in department’s morale

Britain’s spending watchdog is refusing to approve the Treasury’s accounts, compounding a miserable year for Alistair Darling, the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Senior officials spoke last night of a collapse of morale at the Treasury after a string of U-turns and interference by No 10. In another blow to Mr Darling’s independence, Gordon Brown has asked him to carry out a review of green taxation to pave the way for further climbdowns on road tax and fuel duty this autumn.

“We are working very closely with the NAO to ensure the issues that arise as a result of Northern Rock are properly dealt with in our accounts but we still intend to publish them before the summer recess,” he said.

Treasury officials now face questions from MPs over the delay. Michael Fallon, the chairman of the Treasury Scrutiny Committee, said: “This is a fresh humiliation for Alistair Darling. He has lost control over public finances. Now it looks as if he can’t get his department’s books past the auditors.”

A senior Treasury figure spoke of a “crisis of identity” within what was once Whitehall’s most powerful department. “It is a depressing place to work,” he added.

Mr Darling is fighting a bruising battle with the National Audit Office (NAO), which is unhappy at the way that the nationalisation of Northern Rock is being treated in the Treasury’s books. The annual report from No 11 was published yesterday but, in a highly unusual departure from normal procedure, without the department’s resource accounts.

A Treasury spokesman confirmed the delay but denied that the spending watchdog had threatened to qualify its accounts. The books must be published before the parliamentary recess in three weeks’ time.

From:

National Audit Office rejects Treasury accounts - Times Online

EmperorTud · 04-07-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cujo

Sharia law SHOULD be used in Britain, says UK's top judge

Very presumptuous of him to assume Scotland would also adopt the usage of Sharia Law having a completely separate legal system.

We thank him for his suggestion though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cujo

Robert Whelan, of the Civitas think tank, said: 'Everybody is governed by English law and it is not possible to sign away your legal rights.

No, we are not.

bkkandrew · 04-07-2008, 04:34 PM

^You're a law unto yourself!

01-07-2008, 08:06 PM	#127 (permalink)
Ivor Biggun Elite Member Last Online: 28-09-2008 10:23 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Buriram Province out in the sticks Posts: 1,918	Yes you can put a for sale sign on your property but you cannot place a for sale sign on the highway without first getting local goverment permission, in writing. The guy who was fined for advertising is car for sale:- I believe the story isn't completely honest in that I never knew anyone to be prosecuted for a first time offence. What usually happens is that the person will first get a verbal warning. If that fails then he'll get a written warning. Failing to act within the time limit specified then he will be prosecuted. I believe this man opted to ignor the warnings. Upon being fined he then went and tried to make it look as if he is the victim and not thje offender. PS. It's also illegal to repair a vehicle on the highway other than for the purpose of making it mobile so as to get it off the road. It is also illegal to park a car on the highway and is only sanctioned by the concession of the police. This is fact. Sorry I forgot to mention. These laws are usually acted upon only when a complaint is received. Local government are obligated to act on receiving one. Failing to act on a complaint can have serious repocussions in the event of say an accident. Last edited by Ivor Biggun : 01-07-2008 at 08:28 PM.

04-07-2008, 02:17 PM	#135 (permalink)
bkkandrew Clingin' on... Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BKK Posts: 3,996	And the Treasury can't even balance its Books! National Audit Office rejects Treasury accounts Dramatic collapse in department’s morale Britain’s spending watchdog is refusing to approve the Treasury’s accounts, compounding a miserable year for Alistair Darling, the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Senior officials spoke last night of a collapse of morale at the Treasury after a string of U-turns and interference by No 10. In another blow to Mr Darling’s independence, Gordon Brown has asked him to carry out a review of green taxation to pave the way for further climbdowns on road tax and fuel duty this autumn. “We are working very closely with the NAO to ensure the issues that arise as a result of Northern Rock are properly dealt with in our accounts but we still intend to publish them before the summer recess,” he said. Treasury officials now face questions from MPs over the delay. Michael Fallon, the chairman of the Treasury Scrutiny Committee, said: “This is a fresh humiliation for Alistair Darling. He has lost control over public finances. Now it looks as if he can’t get his department’s books past the auditors.” A senior Treasury figure spoke of a “crisis of identity” within what was once Whitehall’s most powerful department. “It is a depressing place to work,” he added. Mr Darling is fighting a bruising battle with the National Audit Office (NAO), which is unhappy at the way that the nationalisation of Northern Rock is being treated in the Treasury’s books. The annual report from No 11 was published yesterday but, in a highly unusual departure from normal procedure, without the department’s resource accounts. A Treasury spokesman confirmed the delay but denied that the spending watchdog had threatened to qualify its accounts. The books must be published before the parliamentary recess in three weeks’ time. From: National Audit Office rejects Treasury accounts - Times Online __________________ The future of TeakDoor: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. A funny thing happened today - Ant trolls, stalks, prevokes and generally upsets approximately 15 members of the board, yet Noodles goes to jail. Perhaps it was a dream... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

30-06-2008, 08:47 PM	#122 (permalink)
Ivor Biggun Elite Member Last Online: 28-09-2008 10:23 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Buriram Province out in the sticks Posts: 1,918	This article is correct in English law. It is illegal to advertise the sale of a motor vehicle whilst parked on the highway. This law was brought out to stop car dealers with little space from using the road to sell their wares. I used to be an Highways Inspector and enforced this rule a couple of times.

01-07-2008, 10:57 AM	#123 (permalink)
Agent_Smith Bigger Than People Last Online: Today 05:09 PM Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In exile Posts: 1,835	Geez, the U.K. has become one big H.O.A. Forgive my ignorance but does Britain have something similar to the American First Amendment?

01-07-2008, 08:09 PM	#128 (permalink)
William Senior Member Last Online: Today 09:55 AM Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In jail Posts: 5,842	^it is also legal to piss behing the left wheel of a car if there is no open public toilet within 1 square mile of you. The UK has some strange laws

02-07-2008, 12:03 PM	#130 (permalink)
cujo I am in Jail Last Online: 21-11-2008 10:44 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Reality. Posts: 1,219	^ I think you'll find it was a public parking spot on the street.

02-07-2008, 03:32 PM	#131 (permalink)
Ivor Biggun Elite Member Last Online: 28-09-2008 10:23 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Buriram Province out in the sticks Posts: 1,918	I believe the laws were brought in to stop private sellers from selling multiple cars outside their homes to the annoyance of the neighbours who couldn't park.

03-07-2008, 01:44 AM	#132 (permalink)
Agent_Smith Bigger Than People Last Online: Today 05:09 PM Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In exile Posts: 1,835	Throwing the baby out with the bath water. Dumb laws.

04-07-2008, 04:34 PM	#137 (permalink)
bkkandrew Clingin' on... Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BKK Posts: 3,996	^You're a law unto yourself!

04-07-2008, 04:36 PM	#138 (permalink)
cujo I am in Jail Last Online: 21-11-2008 10:44 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Reality. Posts: 1,219