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Bugs · 07-04-2008, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

It would seem that in the last few years, dramatic climate change is already showing up as a direct result of our over consumption of Oil and other energy releasing CO2 in the atmosphere.

Despite the ridicule demonization of those facts by "lobbies" and the usual conservative idiots (who can't add 2+2 together btw), we seem to be heading to the end of our civilization if we keep going at that rate.

Should we choose economic power and unsustainable growth over our own preservation ? a lot of people would think so and apparently are not worried at all. Should we leave those individuals take the decisions for us ?

Basically, each great civilization has ended in chaos, mostly by "self-destruction", blinded by their own arrogance and "ignorance" of facts. We are about to overdose on our own stupidity and "ignorance" and that could mean the end of our civilization.

Would it be a bad thing if it was to be the only way to save the specie and the planet ?

2+2 = 4

We know astonishing little about every aspect of the environment, from its past history, to its present state, to how to conserve and protect it. In every debate, all sides overstate the extent of existing knowledge and its degree of certainty. - Michael Crichton

Northern Scum · 07-04-2008, 03:26 AM

Quote:

the only way to save the specie and the planet

Were doomed

Seems we can put a stop to global warming if we all pull out our wallets.

Funny that.

John L · 10-04-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ actually, it is explained precisely by global warming. I suggest you document yourself on that topic

will this little chart help you some Grasshopper?

Note that 1998 is on the left and the warmest of the chart. Actually it is no longer the NASA offical hottest year, but the THIRD warmest. The veneer is coming off the AGW alter, and 2007 was the year that it all started to fall away. Soon it will be Global Cooling, since the solar cycles are much less active, and we will be getting cooler.

John L · 10-04-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Perhaps an ice age is coming?

It Really Is!! Not for some time though. However, we are about to enter the next Little Ice Age by 2030. These happen cyclically, and until the next stage of this major ice age we have been in for the last several million years, we should enjoy all the warmth we can. Because when it gets cold, all sorts of terrible things begin to happen, and more people die than with warm times.

BTY, nice Tits!!

Milkman · 24-06-2008, 09:15 AM

Here's an article snippet of James Hansen, a respected NASA scientist. He was ordered by the GWB not to speak about the issue of Global Warming. Any government scientist that did could face "dire consequences," a reference to threatening a person's career. When he gave an interview to 60 minutes, a government official had to be present.

Now, Hansen is speaking out:

Quote:

Put oil firm chiefs on trial, says leading climate change scientist

Testimony to US Congress will also criticise lobbyists
'Revolutionary' policies needed to tackle crisis

James Hansen, one of the world's leading climate scientists, will today call for the chief executives of large fossil fuel companies to be put on trial for high crimes against humanity and nature, accusing them of actively spreading doubt about global warming in the same way that tobacco companies blurred the links between smoking and cancer.

Hansen will use the symbolically charged 20th anniversary of his groundbreaking speech (pdf) to the US Congress - in which he was among the first to sound the alarm over the reality of global warming - to argue that radical steps need to be taken immediately if the "perfect storm" of irreversible climate change is not to become inevitable.

Link and entire: Put oil firm chiefs on trial, says leading climate change scientist | Environment | The Guardian

John L · 24-06-2008, 09:33 AM

Yeah, that will work! put oil company executives on show-trial, and then take away their company. That way, they will ALL flee the US, and leave the State to Bugger up everything, like they always do. That's just great.

Hansen is a Buggering Idiot! He should be removed from outside Washington(Goddard Space Center) and sent to someplace like BumF-ck Australia, in the Outback, where he can talk to the Roos.

Butterfly · 24-06-2008, 09:51 AM

^ Hi john, glad to see you could make it back, and that your obsession about Global Warning hasn't gone,

Milkman · 24-06-2008, 12:11 PM

Here's another article. It's from Hansen but a little more technical:

Quote:

Burning fossil fuels like coal is the chief cause of man-made greenhouse gases. Hansen said the Earth's atmosphere has got to get back to a level of 350 parts of carbon dioxide per million. Last month, it was 10% higher: 386.7 parts per million.

Quote:

NASA warming scientist: 'This is the last chance'
June 24, 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) — Exactly 20 years after warning America about global warming, a top NASA scientist said the situation has gotten so bad that the world's only hope is drastic action.

James Hansen told Congress on Monday that the world has long passed the "dangerous level" for greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and needs to get back to 1988 levels. He said Earth's atmosphere can only stay this loaded with man-made carbon dioxide for a couple more decades without changes such as mass extinction, ecosystem collapse and dramatic sea level rises.

"We're toast if we don't get on a very different path," Hansen, director of the Goddard Institute of Space Sciences who is sometimes called the godfather of global warming science, told The Associated Press. "This is the last chance.

Link & Entire: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...g_N.htm?csp=34

bkkmadness · 24-06-2008, 12:29 PM

Our civilization needs culling. A deadly virus, an environmental disaster, a nuclear war, something is in the post and it's going to be here soon. Our population will soon be reduced significantly by one or a combination of these events, and I think only then we will be able to look at ourselves and the direction humanity is going and make that change in thinking that is needed for our continued survival.

thegent · 24-06-2008, 07:58 PM

The notion that " man " can get round the table and discuss what direction his fortunes should take is as fanciful as the idiotic view that history is an orderly progression of intent and not a record of uncontrollable dynamism only fully understood in hindsight.

Presumably, you are a young person Maddy?

Global warming as an instrument of self destruction is a sociological phenomenon and has very little to do with science beyond the securing of fat funding from governments driven to ever new methods of taxation occasionally dressed up as a sop to third world sentimentality.

As Einstein quipped, stupidity is the only real threat facing mankind.

bkkmadness · 25-06-2008, 03:39 AM

Yes I am young, well, hanging on to youth anyway.

But I don't see why age and experience changes our thinking too much on this, and I fail to see why a look at out past history has any relevance. The reason being we have never had our population culled by a major disaster yet, and I'm talking a pretty much full wipe out of population here, a good 80% reduction due to some series of events.

At a point like this, I have hope (yes it is mainly hope I base my theory on) that a revolution in the way humanity conducts itself will take place.

We're are actually a very young species, that is evolving (in our thinking/society etc.) at a very, very fast rate, a rate so fast that our future actions are to a degree quite unpredictable. I'd go so far to say it's naive to consider a species as intelligent as humans will never learn from it's past mistakes and not have the capability to plan their future.

Whether that plan works or not is a different matter. I hope for utopia, but expect chaos.

Butterfly · 25-06-2008, 11:10 AM

Maddy, you will find that men never learn from their past, hence past is a very good indication of their future,

even after a disaster, there is little chance we will have learn anything, and we would keep growing and growing until the next disaster,

we don't make the calls, our human conditions do, we are slaves

Milkman · 27-06-2008, 09:00 AM

I'm not a scientist so I can delve into this much, but I think this reveals a warming trend, whether this warming is man-made or not.

Quote:

Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole

Polar scientists reveal dramatic new evidence of climate change
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Friday, 27 June 2008

Independent Graphic
It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.
The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

"From the viewpoint of science, the North Pole is just another point on the globe, but symbolically it is hugely important. There is supposed to be ice at the North Pole, not open water," said Mark Serreze of the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado.

Link:

Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole - Climate Change, Environment - The Independent

Dalton · 29-06-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegent

As Einstein quipped, stupidity is the only real threat facing mankind.

If you replace stupidity with greed, then you nailed it..

Marmite the Dog · 29-06-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milkman

I'm not a scientist so I can delve into this much, but I think this reveals a warming trend, whether this warming is man-made or not.

Quote:

Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole

Polar scientists reveal dramatic new evidence of climate change
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Friday, 27 June 2008

Independent Graphic
It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.
The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

"From the viewpoint of science, the North Pole is just another point on the globe, but symbolically it is hugely important. There is supposed to be ice at the North Pole, not open water," said Mark Serreze of the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado.

Link:

Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole - Climate Change, Environment - The Independent

This isn't a new phenomenon though. Less than 600 years ago the sea to the north of Greenland was open water during some summers, and I'm sure that it has happened many other times in the past.

EmperorTud · 29-06-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkmadness

But I don't see why age and experience changes our thinking too much on this, and I fail to see why a look at out past history has any relevance. The reason being we have never had our population culled by a major disaster yet, and I'm talking a pretty much full wipe out of population here, a good 80% reduction due to some series of events.

The World's Elite subscribe to such a theory, and are indeed actively planning such a cull, of an estimated 80% of the World's population.

Globalisation and government are the tools with which this aim will be achieved.
Three superstates; one in Asia, the EU and the Americas are slowly being created then there will eventually be a World Government.

bkkmadness · 29-06-2008, 03:05 PM

A new world order is certainly on it's way whether orchestrated or not, but I disagree with BF's post that men do not learn from their history. I see a glimmer of hope for our future.

I was meaning to provide a longer post regarding this actually, will do so later.

Bugs · 14-11-2008, 10:58 AM

Couldn’t be bothered to start a new thread for this.

In any case the pollution from China and India is getting a bit out of hand don’t yea think?
Brown clouds threaten world food supply - World environment

Quote:

Brown clouds dim Asia, threaten world's food
U.N.: Pollution haze could lead to extreme weather, harm farming

BEIJING - Thick brown clouds of soot, particles and chemicals stretching from the Persian Gulf to Asia threaten health and food supplies in the world, the U.N. reported Thursday, citing what it called the newest threat to the global environment.

The regional haze, known as atmospheric brown clouds, contributes to glacial melting, reduces sunlight and helps create extreme weather conditions that impact agricultural production, according to the report commissioned by the U.N. Environment Program.

The huge plumes have darkened 13 megacities in Asia — including Beijing, Shanghai, Bangkok, Cairo, Mumbai and New Delhi — sharply "dimming" the amount of light by as much as 25 percent in some places.

Caused by the burning of fossil fuels, wood and plants, the brown clouds also play a significant role in exacerbating the effects of greenhouse gases in warming up the earth's atmosphere, the report said.

"Imagine for a moment a 3-kilometer-thick band of soot, particles, a cocktail of chemicals that stretches from the Arabic Peninsula to Asia," said Achim Steiner, U.N. undersecretary general and executive director of the U.N. environment program.

"All of this points to an even greater and urgent need to look at emissions across the planet because this is where the stories are linked in terms of greenhouse emissions and particle emissions and the impact that they're having on our global climate," he said.

I think South Korea and Japan might start to get a little peeved before too long.

Takeovers · Yesterday, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Global Warming or The End to Global Civilization

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Speaking of China, did you know that emission standards in China are better than those in the US ?

When I was in school a new Ice Age was the hype of the day, caused by industrial air pollution. That's been cleared up. China will do the same with it's coal powerplants in the next 20-30 years. Of course this time the air pollutions is named as the reason for an accelerated melting of the south polar ice caps.

Bu

25-06-2008, 03:39 AM	#31 (permalink)
bkkmadness The Fishkeeper Last Online: Today 05:28 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangkok Posts: 4,247	Yes I am young, well, hanging on to youth anyway. But I don't see why age and experience changes our thinking too much on this, and I fail to see why a look at out past history has any relevance. The reason being we have never had our population culled by a major disaster yet, and I'm talking a pretty much full wipe out of population here, a good 80% reduction due to some series of events. At a point like this, I have hope (yes it is mainly hope I base my theory on) that a revolution in the way humanity conducts itself will take place. We're are actually a very young species, that is evolving (in our thinking/society etc.) at a very, very fast rate, a rate so fast that our future actions are to a degree quite unpredictable. I'd go so far to say it's naive to consider a species as intelligent as humans will never learn from it's past mistakes and not have the capability to plan their future. Whether that plan works or not is a different matter. I hope for utopia, but expect chaos. Last edited by bkkmadness : 25-06-2008 at 04:33 AM.

24-06-2008, 09:33 AM	#26 (permalink)
John L Surat Thani Last Online: 24-06-2008 09:49 PM Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 151	Yeah, that will work! put oil company executives on show-trial, and then take away their company. That way, they will ALL flee the US, and leave the State to Bugger up everything, like they always do. That's just great. Hansen is a Buggering Idiot! He should be removed from outside Washington(Goddard Space Center) and sent to someplace like BumF-ck Australia, in the Outback, where he can talk to the Roos.

24-06-2008, 09:51 AM	#27 (permalink)
Butterfly Suspended Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,629	^ Hi john, glad to see you could make it back, and that your obsession about Global Warning hasn't gone,

24-06-2008, 12:29 PM	#29 (permalink)
bkkmadness The Fishkeeper Last Online: Today 05:28 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangkok Posts: 4,247	Our civilization needs culling. A deadly virus, an environmental disaster, a nuclear war, something is in the post and it's going to be here soon. Our population will soon be reduced significantly by one or a combination of these events, and I think only then we will be able to look at ourselves and the direction humanity is going and make that change in thinking that is needed for our continued survival.

24-06-2008, 07:58 PM	#30 (permalink)
thegent Trat Last Online: 21-11-2008 09:43 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 409	The notion that " man " can get round the table and discuss what direction his fortunes should take is as fanciful as the idiotic view that history is an orderly progression of intent and not a record of uncontrollable dynamism only fully understood in hindsight. Presumably, you are a young person Maddy? Global warming as an instrument of self destruction is a sociological phenomenon and has very little to do with science beyond the securing of fat funding from governments driven to ever new methods of taxation occasionally dressed up as a sop to third world sentimentality. As Einstein quipped, stupidity is the only real threat facing mankind.

25-06-2008, 11:10 AM	#32 (permalink)
Butterfly Suspended Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,629	Maddy, you will find that men never learn from their past, hence past is a very good indication of their future, even after a disaster, there is little chance we will have learn anything, and we would keep growing and growing until the next disaster, we don't make the calls, our human conditions do, we are slaves

29-06-2008, 03:05 PM	#37 (permalink)
bkkmadness The Fishkeeper Last Online: Today 05:28 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangkok Posts: 4,247	A new world order is certainly on it's way whether orchestrated or not, but I disagree with BF's post that men do not learn from their history. I see a glimmer of hope for our future. I was meaning to provide a longer post regarding this actually, will do so later.