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Plan B

Then I must be mentally deficient because I wouldn't kill rabbits with an assault rifle, and I wouldn't hunt deer with a pellet gun, and I wouldn't go on a mall rampage with a single shot 22 rifle.

Boon Mee

Well, since the world is full of bad people whom you need to defend yourself from - the ones with guns, perhaps all you folks who don't feel individual firearms ownershp is a good thing should read "Doctrine For Dummies" by Donavon.

"The world is full of bad people. Mind you, not everyone is bad, but there are enough of them out there that we have to arm ourselves. Over the years, we’ve done a pretty good job of that. When the bad people scare us or hurt us, we have to whack them. This is hard, because you want to try and whack the bad people where they live and not where we live. Naturally, the bad people don’t want to get whacked, and they feel pretty smug because we aren’t mean enough to whack all of them at once. So we have to go over to where they live and whack them carefully."

This is true but...

"What makes this really hard is sorting out the not so bad people from the bad people. We try to whack the bad guys and miss the good guys. Of course, the not so bad people are all upset that we are over there whacking people. They want us to go back to where we live and leave them alone, unless the bad people are whacking them as well. They tend to go postal unless we help them keep their families alive and well. The best way to do that is to let their politicians and police do it while they stay out of our way. Unfortunately, their politicians and police screw this up a lot so we have to take time out from whacking the bad guys (or tricking the Air Force and Navy into doing that) and help out the not so bad people around us. Even though they won’t like us, sometimes they help us to find the bad people. This also helps us calm down the Air Force guys who would whack everybody at once. This is called “full spectrum operations.”

So, you can see the premise that playing with guns is a good thing for boys (don't get carried away with this paradigm like with the Palistanians tho) to prepare them for the mean, cruel world out there. Best part is the Glossary - read it all.

Argghhh! The Home Of Two Of Jonah's Military Guys..

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Thormaturge

This is the amnesty I was referring to. Basically it achieved next to nothing. It was illegal to own guns before Hungerford anyway and the idea of the amnesty was to give people with illegal guns the chance to dispose of them. Hungerford changed nothing in the UK.

In the UK the minority of criminals are armed, and even most house burglars do not carry arms. It is not uncommon for home owners to confront burglars and live to tell the tale. In the US if you confront a burglar you die. In fact if you have an argument with a neighbour about his pet cat pissing on your lawn you could die. You just have to be really careful that you don't upset someone's delicate sensibilities.

It is a simple fact that in the USA you are ten times more likely to be shot for some trivial reason that in the UK. If you are prepared to risk being shot over a domestic argument then that's fine.

Another factor in all of this, however, is capital punishment. The more a criminal has to lose then the more he is prepared to risk in order to escape conviction. All you achieve by having a death sentence is to ensure that people who have killed have nothing to lose and will kill again in the hope of avoiding the death sentence. Similarly if the sentence for, say, rape, is ten years imprisonment then a high proportion of victims live. If the sentence is death then rape victims die. The combination of widespread gun ownership coupled with capital punishment is the reason why so many people die in the USA.

blackgang

Where are you coming up with your numbers?

Gun Control Means Using Both Hands: Comparing the US and the UK murder rates


Comparing the US and the UK murder rates
For years, anti-gun activists have pointed to the UK as an example of what gun control laws can do. They are being proven right every day; the gun laws do seem to be producing a notable change in the rate of crime, but not in the way the anti-gunners intended.
For years, Britain has had a very low rate of murder. For just as many years, the US has had a much higher rate of murder. Indeed, even now, if you look at the murder rate for the US as a whole (5.5 per 100,000) and the rate for the UK as a whole (1.4 per 100,000), you can see that the UK's rate is much lower as a whole. However, the total murder rate is far from being the final word.
In the US and in the UK, crime rates (and murder rates) vary wildly from place to place. In the US, the murder rate in Washington, DC is about 80 per 100,000 population; in Arlington, Virginia, just across the half-mile wide Potomac river, it's 1.6 per 100,000. Does the overall US murder rate of 5.5 per 100,000 tell you anything about whether you would be safe in Arlington, VA or Washington, DC?
The same disparity can be seen in the UK. While the country as a whole has a low rate of murder, there are areas where the murder rate is high. In Glasgow, Scotland, the murder rate is 5.9 per 100,000 (cite). In London, by contrast, it's 2.1 per 100,000 (cite). In the Manchester metro area, it's 10 per 100,000. And in the Manchester neighborhoods of Moss Side and Longsight, and in the Manchester suburb of Hulme, the murder rate is a monstrous 140 per 100,000 (cite)-- which is considerably worse than Washington, DC, America's most murderous city.
If you're thinking that the claims that America's murder rate is a function of its liberal gun laws are beginning to look fishy, you're right.

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Mr Earl

This is because penalties are very severe for committing a crime with a firearm and are actually enforced in Britain.
If existing gun laws in the US were properly enforced criminals wouldn't be acting with such impunity. But the US legal system seems more concerned about the civil rights of criminals.

This statement doesn't make any sense. Care to explain?

blackgang

As has been said, Yes you are and you also know very little about guns.

An M-14 is considered an assault rifle, It is a select/auto fire weapon of 308 cal and a velocity of around 2800 FPS and is used often for shooting varmits [rabbits] at ranges up to 1000 yards and is used in most long range match shoots.

Napoleon had a standing order that any man found with a pellet gun was to be put to death. You see there was and is today built air powered projectile rifles that have a velocity of over 3000 FPS with sizes of up to .040 cal.

From cover on a rampage a .22 single shot in a number of center fire chamberings would be a very fine killing weapon, There are very few rifles with accuracy and light recoil that would out do a .22 cal single shot.
But you keep making yourself look silly when talking with so little actual knowledge on the subject.

Plan B

No, quite right. I've only fired pellet guns and don't know anything. Apart from the Steyr assault rifles, and C9 support fire weapons and grenade launchers and anti-tank rockets I fired as a rifleman in the army.

a rampage from cover? Niiice!

Thormaturge

Perhaps you should study the subject.

For a first offence of burglary in the UK an offender is likely to get community service. Painting park fences or mowing grass. Frankly it is absurd but with so little to lose, and since neither the home owner nor the police will be armed then few burglars bother packing weapons.

If, on the other hand, all homeowners and cops are armed as in the States, then burglars will go armed because they may need to shoot their way out of being caught.

I do agree that guns, on their own, do not kill. It is the combination of people with guns that is a threat to life. There are weirdos in all societies however. People who will not accept other people are entitled to different opinions on, say, religeon or politics. Give them a gun and sometimes they can take an argument too far.

blackgang

Yes, I would say like the dude in the tower at a univ. I trhink it was in Texas a few years ago, anyone on the ground within 700 yards was dead meat and a .22 chambered in a 22/250, 220 swift, 22 Hornet, 223 would have been a killer of a gun.

Must have been the limey army, didn't know they let you use real live ammo, but it sounds like they didn't let you use to much tho..

But once you become familliar with anything, such as firearms then you will lose your fear of them and begin to learn of their usefulness.
Seems that Jet Gordon has done it..

blackgang

Playing With Guns Is...31-12-2007 09:48 AMThormaturgeUseful for what? Guns have one use. Killing.


Useful for killing if thats the only use you can see for them, but that means that your mind in not a very useful thing if thats all you can find to do with them.
I have spent hours on the loading table and also on the shooting bench and fired hundreds of rounds and never killed anything but TIME., very enjoyably too I might say.

chinthee

I spent my youth deer hunting in the rocky mountains every year with my dad, brothers and uncles. It was a family tradition, and we enjoyed great venison and made deer jerky. I learned how to handle large caliber rifles at a young age.

As a youth, we also engaged in killing prairie dogs and other stupid entertainment with .22s and other things.

As I got older, I quit killing animals and I restricted my shooting to the ranges and open country practice and trap shooting. I've owned everything from 12 gauge shotguns, 30.06 rifles, Remingtons, Winchesters, you name it. As far as hand guns, I've owned many semi-autos, and revolvers of all types.

I never had the thought of pointing any gun at a person. But, guns have been very enjoyable for me. I really miss them in Thailand.

Mid

open question to all who are pro-gun ,

where's the figures ? reports of armed private citizens PREVENTING crimes ?

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Thormaturge

^^^

Would you like me to post your previous red square with the personal remark?

If you read my posts you will see that I have no objection to people using guns recreationally. We do in the UK. It is the ready availability of lethal weapons in the home that causes so many deaths. It is just too easy to settle an argument with a bullet. If all you wanted was target practice then you would be happy with an air rifle, or do you feel the need to be able to kill someone when the mood takes you?

I do find it tragic that we have this one country on Earth where the population is comparatively well educated and which could reduce its murder rate by 90%, but thanks to commercial interests a significant element still want to have, and their neighbours to have, guns in their homes.

chinthee

stroller

Well, maybe so in the US, I've always found it good enough to rely on authorities and the rule of law to deal with 'bad people'.
When was the last time you had to shoot a 'bad guy' attacking you?

Plan B

And that is exactly my point. Military weapons, good for military applications. Do you need an M16 for home defense? I'm not against the ownership of firearms for range use, hunting, or personal security. But AK-47s? That is just taking the piss. I'm quite aware of the usefulness of automatic weapons in the field (of combat), but barring a zombie apocalypse is there any need for military style weapons in the home?

If you want to fire military weapons join the military or go to a gun club. You don't need one in your home.

Mr Earl

I find it tragic that instead of supporting and existing legal system we have knee jerk anti-gun activists who try to exploit every tragic gun related incident.
They fail to make the elementary connection that a weapon like a handgun or high powered rifle has no intent of it's own. It requires a human to provide that intent.
Anti-gun activists play on the emotions of the weak minded. IMHO

Dalton

Cause he would like to have one

Dalton

God created the man....Samuel Colt made them equal.

Thormaturge

... and American gun manufacturers play on the emotions of insecure men.